Interesting Perspectives on Penn

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Pennsylvania
1

<p>Can current students comment on these? Current students only, please. It would be great to hear from you all. Thanks. :)</p>

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I attended Penn as a grad student at the School of Dental Medicine - and believe me, 3 stars is as generous as I can be. I was harassed by a sadistic Bay Instructor, chased down Baltimore Avenue by "Hatchet Man" and generally had a miserable experience which may or may not have been the fault of the school. Meanwhile, I got good grades - but transferred out to escape the scourge of West Philly.

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As an undergrad at UPenn, I find my self disappointed. I completely agree with Jacquelin K. Yes, the academics are well up to par and the opportunities are grand. But what about the general acceptance of others that are unlike yourself? Penn cliques are everywhere. Why commit yourself to hanging out with the same people when you don't even like some of the people in your clique anyway?</p>

<p>The facilities are so-so. Can we PLEASE fix the high-rise elevators? What is the point of having four in each building when only 2 consistently work? </p>

<p>Yes, i am in the Wharton school and yes it is crazy competitive. The "Wharton curve" is the bane of my existence. What is the point of having tests where the average is in the 30's.... How does this spur students to learn when the tests are going to be utterly impossible?</p>

<p>And, the fact that nearly all the maintenance, dining services and security guards are urban black people, give me plenty of opportunity to see classism in action. </p>

<p>Oh yeah, Penn students usually only venture into Center City, Rittenhouse, and the Olde City sections of the city because they don't want to venture into the "ghetto." Ahh yes, I was not aware that one foot past 40th street constituted the ghetto. Give me a break.

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Philly native & Penn undergrad alum sharing my humble opinion here. </p>

<p>Campus is highly congested all the time except for summer. The academics are ok, but the social dynamics leave much to be desired--especially when it comes to racial issues. Penn is a very clique-ish place; it's just that cliques are larger than they might have been in grade sch and high sch. There's tons of discourse on a phenomenon Quakers call self-segretation, which is usually applied to non-white ethnic and racial groups. </p>

<p>Overall, I think most of the social ills at Penn aren't unique to the university. Each Ivy probably has a profile including the usual suspects, e.g., exclusion patterns, substance abuse, student crime stats, Greek life weirdness, and so on, but I would wager that the variations between universities' profiles are significant. Some less-than-savory highlights that may be unique to Penn: the unfriendliness of the high rises, where I lived for all 4 of my years. The rivalry between Wharton and all of the other schools in part b/c alumni dollars go towards funding their own schools instead of getting pooled & then distributed evenly. The other part would be a sense of absolute superiority nurtured by Wharton admin. </p>

<p>Some less-than-savory highlights that may not be unique to Penn: the fact that while the student body contains a very small percentage of black students, campus security, maintenance, & dining services operate with a 90%+ black staff. The classism that comes from a largely wealthy student body. The incredible town/gown division. In this case, what has West Philly hating the university is that it bulldozed the Black Bottom neighborhood less than 50 years ago to build a science center on Market St. Since then, it has built a world-class school in West Philly that only rich people can attend b/c only rich people can live in the catchment area--oh yeah, the catchment area recently became a rich folks zone when Penn subsidized mortgages for its faculty and staff to buy houses there and raise the property values by 300%+. And how does Penn feel about West Philly? Oh, only that all the streets beyond 40th (and beyond 47th for the less faint of heart) constitute the heart of darkness, and let's not mince words here. Racism is obviously in play here big time. If folks realized how much crime took place within the Penn community, maybe they'd be more scared of their hallmates than of walking down Walnut Street after dark.</p>

<p>If you look at academics alone, perhaps you'll find yourself raving about this place, but looking at academics alone is dangerously short-sighted. It's not just a school. It's a business, it's a neighborhood, it's a historical entity, it's a place where young adults converge to socialize and shape each other's minds for 4 years. Penn is not full of sunshine and roses for everyone who attends the institution or interacts with it.

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2

<p>STOP posting negative threads about Penn on the Penn thread…Just stop. Penn upperclassmen have already replied to your other threads in full, and frankly if you are not satisfied with those answers you will not be satisfied by anything else they could write. </p>

<p>You are obviously anxious that college is approaching so fast, and yes it will be a major change in your life. However, scouring the internet for every negative review/aspect about Penn is only going to make you more nervous. Do yourself a favor and just CHILL. Just let college happen and if you absolutely hate it then you can complain.</p>

3

<p>I don’t even go to Penn, I just peruse these boards when I’m bored but you are by far the most annoying member on the Penn board. We understand you are having second doubts about your college. If your 3 page 2400+ views thread wasn’t enough to clear your mind already then no one here can help. I think I speak for a majority of the actual Penn students/alumni that spoke on your previous thread. Just let college happen. There’s really nothing you can do about it now.</p>

4

<p>This is highly selective editing. I know because I went on the review sites before I got to Penn too, and usually reviews like this would only come up every 9 or so. Honestly, the few people I know who have issues with Penn have trouble because a. they are often very negative and unpleasant people, and b. they would probably have trouble at any school they decided to attend. Most people I know absolutely love it here. Yeah they have bad days or small issues with certain classes or professors or times when they feel homesick but they know how to take things into perspective and don’t let that small things spoil the larger picture. Yes there have been times when I have been annoyed with a few people, but the student body is so much more than five individuals. Academically I’ve always been very happy because I am well suited to the style of teaching but some people really hate lectures. However, if you go to office hours and talk to your TAs they are more than willing to help, and even go beyond what is in the course. For example I have met with certain faculty members in my major who I talked with for over an hour. To go to a research university like Penn, you need to be self sufficient, no one is going to hold your hand through everything, but if you are assertive you will do quite well and have many opportunities.</p>

5

<p>You don’t get to limit responses to current students, sorry.</p>

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<p>Ummm, notice any inconsistency there? The author – unlike about 90% of Penn undergraduates – stayed on campus for all four years, but complains that people are afraid to cross 40th St. (and most undergraduates who live off campus live west of 40th). And at the same time, he complains that the Penn-Alexander School catchment area has become a rich folks zone “recently” (i.e., about 15 years ago). And what is the Penn-Alexander School catchment area? Well, it’s 100% west of 40th St. – basically west and southwest of the Penn campus out to 47th to the west and past the bottom of Clark Park to the south. </p>

<p>How much are you going to trust the opinion of someone who complains about people being afraid to leave the campus when he never left the campus, and also complains that the areas he seems afraid to go are too upscale? Hmmmm. Is there maybe a cog missing there?</p>

6

<p>I think Poeme absolutely hit the nail on the head. People that are unhappy here probably would have been unhappy at other schools. Success at a top tier university requires balancing academic, extracurricular, and social life. Some people struggle living away from home the first time, and they miss their family. Other people have a negative outlook on life, and get bogged down by slow elevators or getting a B+ in a class. Penn offers many wonderful opportunities, but it is up to students to walk through the doors that Penn provides. A great internship or job isn’t going to just fall into your lap; you have to apply for it. You are never going to get to know Penn’s awesome professors on a personal level if you don’t take the iniative to talk to them after class or in office hours. During undergrad, I had an hour long conversation with at least ten different professors at office hours that was completely unrelated to the course material (skiing, applying to grad school, the meaning of life, happiness…I’m not kidding).</p>

<p>As a side note:</p>

<p>From [Penn:</a> Facts and Figures](<a href=“http://www.upenn.edu/about/facts.php]Penn:”>http://www.upenn.edu/about/facts.php)</p>

<p>Penn has an aggregate undergraduate graduation rate of 95 percent.</p>

<p>From [Harvard</a> College Admissions § About Harvard: Frequently Asked Questions](<a href=“http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/about/faq.html#9]Harvard”>http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/about/faq.html#9)</p>

<p>Harvard graduates 97 percent of its students in six years or less.</p>

<p>From <a href=“http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000454.pdf[/url]”>http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000454.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Cornell graduates 92 percent of its students in six years or less.</p>

<p>This means that one in twenty students you meet at Penn’s NSO aren’t going to graduate in six years or less. 120 out of 2400. Penn would love to keep these 120 students, but some will fail out, some will transfer because they are unhappy, and some will leave for other reasons. And right now, I’ve definitely got you pegged at one of those 120 people who will ultimately not receive a degree from Penn unless you shape up your attitude. No school is perfect, and it is up to you to decide whether you are going to dwell on Penn’s imperfections or look on the bright side and take advantage of Penn’s many great strengths.</p>

7

<p>I just wanted some opinions on those comments. That’s all. Like other people have pointed out, I’m just a nervous freshman. One moment I love Penn and the other, I regret my decision to accept its offer. But I’ll stop with the questions now. Clearly they aren’t leading to anything remotely close to a productive discussion, which is what I was hoping for. So, that’s that. :)</p>

<p>P.S: To those who are sending me private messages telling me to stay away from Penn: How immature are you? Please, grow up!</p>

8

<p>I’m also a freshman so I’ll offer my opinion on those comments.</p>

<p>-The first comment is kind of irrelevant to us as undergrads because the experience of an adult Graduate student is going to be entirely different from the experience of a undergrad student. His experience also has to deal more with his specific grad school. The School of Dental Medicine isn’t representative as Penn as a whole. I think his experience has more to do with his dislike of West Philly. This is a gritty city. I think it’s a great place but like all cities it is going to have its share of problems. Penn is not the place if you want to be sheltered from real world. </p>

<p>-Yes there will be “cliques”. That’s just general college life. From my perspective Penn still seems like a social place. Just because people have specific groups of friends doesn’t mean that they are going to be rude or closed off to other people. Penn is called “the social ivy” for a reason. The majority of people seem very open to me. </p>

<p>-A lot of minorities do work for Penn. A lot of this is classism and lot of it has to deal with fact that Penn is located in a majority minority area. As a minority myself I haven’t come to terms with how I feel about this. I still feel a part of Penn’s community regardless. I disagree with commenter that only rich kids can come to Penn. Penn has given out immense financial aid and it has allowed many students including myself access to getting an education here.
The other comments that some Penn students are afraid to venture past 40th street is partly true but a lot of students explore philadelphia. If you ignore the ignorance about West Philly and be street smart then there is no reason why you can’t go past the boundaries of Penn’s campus.
I think the idea from the comments that Penn has rocky relations with the outside community is not the full story. A lot of Penn students and organizations are involved in the Philly community. Many students volunteer at West Philly schools or are involved in some sort of off-campus community work. To say that Penn is campus of rich, elitist kids who have nothing to do with the outside communities is FALSE. Check out the Civic Center if you need proof of this. </p>

<p>Overall I think that Penn has its problems but it’s definitely not a horrible place. My feeling from being on the campus is that students are generally happy. There are a ton of resources to better your experience at Penn as long as you proactively seek them. If you see a problem or something you dislike about Penn then do something to change it. If you come into Penn with a negative outlook then your never going to be happy here. I think what the posters are trying to get you to see is that Penn isn’t perfect (no college is) but you can still be successful and have a good college experience. Also go on the facebook groups more and interact with more of our classmates. There are a lot of friendly people and they all have a lot to offer. </p>

<p>Just my opinion. Viva la Penn15.</p>

9

<p>Man, I hope you’re not this negative at NSO! Penn is a somewhat city-integrated school in a city that until recently was not terribly nice (and parts still aren’t). Like any other school not in a forest, it is going to try to make itself and its immediate area reflective of the image it wants before it can go about saving the rest of the city from city life. Universities are not charities that go around fixing up cities. They’re schools. Penn helps a buttload of Philly, but they don’t exist primarily to clean up Philly.</p>

<p>Regarding racist hiring, I’m amazed at how wrongly self-indignant that statement is. If there were a bunch of white people offering to work for less than the minorities who work for Penn and they hired the minorities, that would be racist against white people–pretty ironic given the point this fact was meant to prove. Do you expect the university to overpay its workers and discriminate against competitive minority workers in order to hire an ethnically proportional workforce? That’s probably illegal and definitely racist.</p>

<p>Again with the misplaced indignation–if you can find a ten-thousand-person school that has no cliques or self-segregating groups, it’s probably not on this planet. If you wanted to eliminate this, you’d have to admit ten thousand people of identical traits. I don’t know what’s more ridiculous, being outraged that people tend to group themselves into manageably-sized groups of like-minded people, or that it’s pure racism or classism, and not shared backgrounds and interests, at work.</p>

<p>I will give you the fact that the admins haven’t done a great job promoting the One University policy on Facebook, but even forgiving their screw-up of the official page, let’s be real–how many people want a 2500-person group of people to be their primary means of class networking? I don’t. Nor do lots of our classmates, which explains why lots of smaller, student-created interest-based groups exist. And yeah, we do have separate school groups–but I think considering the differing academic interests and school/class policies/concerns of the four schools, that’s completely justified, and far more useful than some enormous overarching group. Besides, anyone and everyone gets added to the official (open) CAS group–I was in it for a while.</p>

<p>Finally, I’ve already noticed most of the Wharton “superiority” in our class comes from CAS, not Wharton. I’ve met maybe one or two Wharton kids who freely express their feelings of superiority, and at least half a dozen CAS kids who make half-joking jabs at their perceived image of Wharton. Wharton kids have a social incentive not to play into the negative stereotype and be condescending to 75% of their school; CAS kids have no such incentive.</p>

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<p>What Wharton15 said. While I’m still an incoming freshman, I have no idea why one would legitimately think that Wharton sees itself as better than CAS, or anything of that nature. The only comments I’ve ever heard made about Wharton being better were totally and obviously in jest. And it’s not like people classify themselves by school once they’re on campus, nor do they walk around with any air of superiority or inferiority.</p>

<p>Stop whining. I can predict that you’re going to walk on-campus with these preconceived notions of how Penn should be, and just like a self-fulfilling prophecy entails, see the things you expect to see. Start with an open mind and let yourself embrace what’s around you. You’ll be happiest that way.</p>

11

<p>Please don’t do this when you’re on campus. I hope that you don’t have a roommate, sucks to be her.</p>