International Student - ED chances

Colleges and Universities A-Z Swarthmore College
1

<p>hi! My name is Peter and I am an international student from eastern Europe.
How would you estimate my chances ...</p>

<p>I have SAT 1 (the old one) 600verbal 780 math
SAT 2 writting 600
maths 1c 700
world history 670
physics 800</p>

<p>TOEFL computer based 278 out of 300 </p>

<p>GPA - 6 (the maximum possible)
class rank 1 weighted out of 180 students
s. school record - the most rigorous courses in my school </p>

<p>EC</p>

<p>-most important for me
Painting and Photography
Basketball - Captain of the School Team
member of National Red Cross voluntary organization
Snowboarding
computer programing</p>

<p>-less important
habitat for humanity
guitar playing
whole bunch of other sports - soccer, volleyball, swimming etc.</p>

<p>Awards and scholastic distinctions
- 2 time first prize winner in Regional information technologies contest
- 2 times first prize winner in Regional physics contest and 1 time second prize winner
- Won the Basketball championship of elite schools in my city last year (captain of the team)
- Several awards for drawings and photographs from different art contest</p>

<p>Work Experience
- Computer maintenance at Computer club
- Lifeguard ( have a license for that certified by the international water saving organization)</p>

<p>Essay - useless to say my opinion about it but a I've put a lot work in it and tryed to do my best.
Quite good according to different friends currently studding in US whom I used as proofreaders.</p>

2

<p>It is very difficult to assess chances for international students. I don't feel that I am really qualified to do so. However, Swarthmore does have quite a few students from Eastern Europe and you look like a very strong applicant.</p>

<p>If you haven't already done so, you should e-mail the basketball coach and work that angle.</p>

<p>I think your interest in both studio art and physics will be a plus as well. I suspect Swarthmore makes a concerted effort to find potential physics majors because the engineering department siphons off a lot of those students.</p>

3

<p>your standarized test scores are a bit lower than the swarthmore average and i suspect it can be more difficult if you reuest fin aid. Your school record is definitely good and if there were students previously admitted from your hs to swarthmore, then that might be helpful. other than that, work really really hard on the essay. I think doing ED will help you quite a bit in the admission although it's still very competitive.</p>

4

<p>That's what makes it so difficult to predict for internationals. Tests score, particularly on the Verbal portion of the SATs, will be evaluated differently for non-native English speakers.</p>

<p>I imagine that most US Swatties would score a little lower on the SAT Verbal if it were given in Russian!</p>

5

<p>interesteddad thank you for the info. I haven't contacted the basketball couch yet. I thought that as I'm not a candidate for a sport scholarship my baskteball skills would be of no importance. If this will help I can contact him right away. As for the SATs I'm I little worried myself - obviously they are the worst part of my application.
I've worked really really hard on the essay and I also expect quite enthusiastic recommendations.</p>

6

<p>internationals,
Swarthmore does not offer any athletic scholarships, but if you are a very skilled basketball player, as you seem to be, the coach would certainly be interested in talking to you about your basketball skills as well as your academic qualifications.</p>

7

<p>internationals:</p>

<p>Correct. There are no basketball scholarships. But, the athletic department has about 60 admissions "slots" in each entering class that they can give a push to. Because they aren't stocking a football team, the men's basketball program has several of these "slots" allocated to them.</p>

<p>That athletic "push" can be a significant factor in admissions, so I would definitely contact the basketball coach. Just put together an e-mail with a bit of background. Give him a sense of your academic qualifications (because he'll need to "sell" that to the admissions office) and then an outline of your basketball experience.</p>

<p>Swarthmore is not a powerhouse in athletics and it is very difficult for them to recruit athletes with the academic qualifications to be comfortable at Swarthmore. My initial reaction to your list was that you might well qualify as a "recruited athlete" at Swarthmore.</p>

<p>Here's the link to the basketball website:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.swarthmore.edu/athletics/team_mens_basketball/index.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.swarthmore.edu/athletics/team_mens_basketball/index.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>If you click the "Coaches" link on the right side of the page, you get a profile of the head coach, Lee Wimberly. There's a link on that page "Contact Coach Wimberly" that will take you to his e-mail. There is also a link to a "recruiting form" that you can fill out on-line. I would fill out that form and then duplicate the information in a personal e-mail to Wimberly. </p>

<p>If you want to be agressive about it, copy your basketball e-mails to the International Admissions Officer. You can find his/her name and e-mail on this list:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.swarthmore.edu/admissions/contact_us.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.swarthmore.edu/admissions/contact_us.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Frankly, I'd probably put together an introductory e-mail for the International Admissions Rep in any case. The name of the game is making yourself known -- through the strength of your application and any other way you can think of short of being obnoxious about it.</p>

8

<p>Thanks again interesteddad for the valuable info. I've got your idea that the more they hear about me the better. I'll catact the couch immediately. I also wonder if their arts department will be interested in drawings and photographs which I can send them.</p>

9

<p>Yes. Contacting the art department and sending some samples would be a good idea, too.</p>

<p>The way I look at it: what do you have to lose? Getting accepted to any of these colleges generally hinges on some little thing that makes the admissions department select one student over several other equally qualified students. That one thing could be an art professor eating lunch with the Admissions Dean and saying, "hey what about that kid, Peter, from Eastern Europe? The photographs he sent me to look at were excellent....". </p>

<p>You never know.</p>

10

<p>precisely - you never know :)
I am currently in dilema - ED Vassar Or ED Swarthmore. I like both colleges very much but probably I will choose Vassar. I understood from various sources that for Vassar the weakest part of my application (the sats) are not as important as they are for Swarthmore. Furthermore Vassar gives more money to international students so as I've said I'm in big dilema :(.</p>

11

<p>Vassar is a good school, too. I know my daughter visited and was interested in applying. It tends to be a bit more "artsy" oriented, so it would also be a good fit for your studio art interests.</p>

<p>On the financial aid, I can't find Vassar's data. However, I would not assume that Swarthmore gives less money to internationals. First, as a percentage of the student body, Swarthmore has more international students. Of the 86 full-time international students registered in the Fall of 2004, 47 received Swarthmore funded financial aid grants (this does not include financial aid from other sources). That's about 54% of the internationals receiving Swarthmore grants -- a higher percentange than for US students.</p>

<p>The average Swarthmore grant for these 47 internationals was $35,563 each. The total Swarthmore grants for international sudents last year was $1,671,456. If they accept you, they will make finances work out if at all possible. Their per student endowment is about three times the size of Vassar's.</p>

<p>You wil have to do some research to find out Vassar's numbers. Remember that Vassar is nearly 75% larger, so work with a per capita number (like average grant per international or something).</p>

<p>As for SATS: Yes. Vassar's median SATs are quite a bit lower than Swarthmore's. As a US student, my daughter viewed Swarthmore as a reach and Vassar as a match based on her SATs.</p>

<p>I actually think your SATs are quite strong. Colleges will "discount" the Verbal SATs for you because English is your second language. They know that the verbal portions of the test are skewed to favor US, English-speaking students. Your English communication is excellent and your very high Math SAT scores and your #1 class rank demonstrate that you can handle the academics. They may or may not accept you, but it won't be because your academic qualifications aren't good enough.</p>

<p>BTW, they make similar allowances on the SAT verbal scores for first-generation US college students, minority students, etc. They know that the SAT test has some culturally-based flaws. 5.3% of Swarthmore's freshmen last year had Verbal SAT scores below 600. I would bet that all of those were "special" situations, largely involving non-English speaking applicants.</p>

<p>I wish I could give you more precise guidance in terms of your likely "odds" at Swarthmore (or Vassar). But, I just don't feel that I really have a firm enough grasp on international admissions to do so. I think you are a strong Swarthmore applicant based on what you've posted here, but I don't have a sense of how strong you have to be or how they go about putting together a class of internationals. Obviously, they have some number of Eastern Europeans in mind, but I have no way to judge how you would compare to their other Eastern European applicants -- which is what really matters.</p>

12

<p>internationals,</p>

<p>Both Swarthmore and Vassar have 2 ED rounds (ED1=Nov 15, ED2=Jan 1). I think Vassar is easier to get into (and you will get a boost for being a male). But if Swarthmore is your first choice, try ED1 to Swarthmore, and do ED2 to Vassar if you don't get in.</p>

13

<p>interesteddad,</p>

<p>Thank you again for the detailed info. Here is what I found about Financial Aid
Vassar C
Number of enrolled international undergraduates received aid: 116
Total amount awarded : $3,926,963
Swarthmore C
Number of enrolled international undergraduates received aid: 47
Total amount awarded : $1,671,456
I took this info from collegeboard's website. Obviously the average grant is pretty much the same for both colleges but Vassar admits more students.
I also understood that it doesn't realy matter what are my sat's compared to the college's average. The score's and applications of other international students are what matter.</p>

<p>nngmm,</p>

<p>Thank you too for the advice - I'll most probably take advantage of it. The problem is that I still can decide which college would be better for me - Vassar or Swarthmore so that I can choose one for ED1. Well, I know that Swarthmore is generally ranked higher but maybe this makes it just a long shot for me. Even if it is not I am still not sure that this nessecerily makes it a better school than Vassar. I just like both schools (or at least I think I do) and still can not make up my mind which to choose.</p>

14

<p>internationals,
Higher ranking certainly does not make any college a better fit for you, and it's up to you to decide which will suit you better. My point was that two ED rounds give you the opportunity to take advantage of ED boost at both. But you should choose carefully, since ED is binding. I would recommend reading student's publications as well as LiveJournal community postings to get some better feel for the schools. On LJ communities there are lot's of prospective student's questions answered by current students. They are mostly very frank and helpful.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.livejournal.com/community/swarthmore/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.livejournal.com/community/swarthmore/&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.livejournal.com/community/vassar/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.livejournal.com/community/vassar/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

15

<p>Thanks, Peter:</p>

<p>The Vassar number means that roughly 80% of their internationals qualify for, and receive, need-based grant aid. That is a little odd because it is much higher than the percentage for US students (54%). It could mean that Vassar has an earmarked endowment for internationals, I don't know.</p>

<p>I hate to raise this, but...</p>

<p>If you aren't sure which college you would prefer AND if you need to shop financial aid packages, perhaps you should not be applying ED. Either one of those conditions, by itself, would typically be reason enough not to apply ED. The combination would make me think long and hard about whether Early Decision is the right move for you.</p>

<p>Putting aside the issue of applying ED when you aren't sure about a college...the finanical implications are worth thinking about. In my opinion, ED makes sense for two kinds of applicants: the first is a student/family who has decided that they can live with whatever financial aid package is offered. In other words, they'd like to pay less, but ultimately the difference in possible aid packages isn't going to change the decision if the school is the right place. The second is the student/family who needs, and is likely to qualify for, a full-scholarship to even consider attending. In that case, ED is not too risky because if the package comes up short, there is no way you can enroll and the college would let you out of the commitment. In between those two extremes, the ability to compare financial aid packages is pretty useful.</p>

16

<p>ID is right about fin aid issue. If you are accepted ED, you have to take whatever they gave you, and have no other options to compare.</p>

17

<p>Unfortunately my family is able to pay just a really small part of the total cost for a College education in US. The college I am applying can easily see this in the financial aid docs and they will know if they are to admit me at all they should be able to really cover my need. That is why it doesn't matter for me that there may be other colleges offering probably s.t. better - either they cover almost all the cost or they do not offer me admission - it's that simple. Every combination of scholarships, grants, loans and campus work works for me as long as I can go in US and study in the college I've chosen.
I know that many colleges admit ED only few international students because they have limited resources for internationals and they prefer to wait for RD so that they can see the strength of the whole applicant pool. I also know that sometimes being and international s admitted ED is probably harder than being admitted RD for various other reasons. However I've decided to apply ED because though this may not increase my chances to be admitted with financial aid it will definitely not decrease them.
I have also decided that I will apply ED Vassar instead of Swarthmore. Compared just as Colleges I like them equally. The single reason which made me decide Vassar instead Swarthmore is that I believe that I have better chances to be admitted in Vassar with financial aid. Vassar admits more international students and has larger a budget for financial aid. Furthermore the applicant pool will be probably not as strong as Swartmore's one and my art work can be a serious plus for me at Vassar.
Thanks again to all those who wrote in this thread. I really appreciate your help.</p>

18

<p>Peter:</p>

<p>Sounds like a rational, well-considered decision to me. Best of luck.</p>

19

<p>Thank you interesteddad I'll need it</p>