<p>I think its a mistake for the schools to be reactive and make rules about bringing laptops to classes or whatever. They are missing the larger issue which is WHY are the students not engaged enough to put IM and other distractions aside in order to listen to the prof? If students are motivated enough to get to law school, it's not a lack of motivation. And to dismiss this as simply "rude" behavior and clamp down with rules is, I think, misguided and likely to fail. We are not talking about five year olds who need to be educated in the rudimentary rules of civilized behavior. There's a much larger problem here and I personally believe that it has to do with higher education (this applies actually to all levels of education) simply not keeping up with the times. Gladmom: I do think that we are on the cusp of a revolution (internet) in terms of how education is delivered and received. Instead of putting their heads in the sand, school administrators need to be paying attention.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>They are missing the larger issue which is WHY are the students not engaged enough to put IM and other distractions aside in order to listen to the prof?<<</p> </blockquote>
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<p>I believe that it is due to the addictive qualities of IM, etc. (and I should know, having been on CC for xx years).</p>
<p>Some of my law school profs were such oddballs, that if the technology had existed, I'm SURE we would have been IMing each other during class about the prof's wacked out behavior.</p>
<p>^^ Missypie, did we go to the same law school? Not to mention some of my CLASSMATES! Talk about oddballs. The best and the brightest, perhaps, but VERY odd.</p>
<p>The easy way out is to argue it is the prof who is not engaging or providing edutainment. This is certainly true in some cases. And there are also are a few super stars as in any career field who can make anything interesting. Often those guys hit the speaking circuit because it pays more.</p>
<p>However,</p>
<ol>
<li> Not all parts of all material lends it self to fun.</li>
<li> Unfortunately students are too often motivated, but it is to get the piece of paper, not the learning. Look at the frenzy on CC to go to ivies. Why when there are outstanding other schools which are virtually never mentioned on CC? People want a DEGREE from Wharton, Harvard, Princeton, etc. Notice it is very often not the education part or "What it can do for them" e.g, the right connections. No learning in these motives. If you want and interesting insight into motivation, you should try teaching second-semester second-year MBA in top programs. They have jobs an know how to play the game to get out at that point.</li>
<li> Some parts of the education process is just not a lot of fun. Remember learning your times tables. Listening to in order to learn a complex procedure can be tedious.</li>
<li> Many colleges cannot afford to provide MTV type integrated materials together -- watch your tuitions go up. I have seen some beautiful program learning type modules. However they were put together by Textbook companies or for profit education entities usually for basic large classes. Interestingly these have not evolved as you would have expected from the early computer/internet days. It is costly (copywrites, permissions for photos, clips, etc.) which are sold to people. It is the royalty issue is paramount these days. And keeping them new requires a staff of people to search to keep it current. Yet most are looking for new ways to do stuff more efficiently using the internet. The techonolgy is evolving, as is our ability to understand how to use it.</li>
<li> In the end, education takes place in the learner. Lectures are not rock concerts. I have seen facult dress up in gorilla suits, as chickens, give pland lectures where they cry, bark, etc. Very entertaining stuff. The universities love these and load up huge sections of students, who equally love them. But they tend to be general requirement stuff. And yes there is the odd organic chem teacher who is facinating, but it is difficult to clone him or her. Interestingly if you ask the kids who took the gorilla suit class a year later what it was about, they remember the person was facinting and the suit was neat, but can recall the material beyond a superficial level. The student with the desire to learn, will pay attention -- even if it is tedious. But many, unfortunately, are not in school for knowledge; and, this is mass education in the end, even at Harvard. Which, of course, has its own limitations, like seeking to the lowest common denominator unfortunately.</li>
<li>If you look at the history of schools you will see that they adapt, often better than parents do to dealing with students and there needs and problems. There are things I know about my students that there families have no idea about. One advantage of teaching is it keeps you young and flexible on average. In the end, the internet will not be band, but rather better utilized. In the short run, its use will need adjusting.</li>
</ol>
<p>I'm with ellemenope. I can't remember my college classes being boring. But maybe it's like the pain of childbirth--you forget after a while. Also, I attended a long time ago, back in the age before hand-held calculators, so memory may be faulty.</p>
<p>I admit that when I am listening in a group to a presentation and part of it is not interesting to me, I will direct my attention elsewhere. Maybe I'll make a list, write a letter, plan a project, but I try not to be obvious about it. If it were so incredibly boring, I would leave, if my job didn't depend on it.</p>
<p>Can't wait to see how the new technologies will change education in the future. As the old adage says, the only thing we can be sure of is change.</p>
<p>Gladmom, sounds like we might have been of the same generation. I was the cat's meow because I had a 4 function calculator (cost $100--in the day of 30 cent gas) for chem class.</p>
<p>(PS: STILL remember the pain of childbirth!)</p>
<p>If they're not disrupting their classmates' learning, what's the harm? Not all, but a sizable number, of my classmates have laptops out in class, and while they're following the syllabus in one browser window, they've got their fantasy baseball site or facebook up in another. The school also records every lecture so students can attend class whenever they feel like it. The only time my whole class ever comes to school at the same time is when we're taking a test. The only time attendance is mandatory is when you have to come in to practice a procedure, like hooking someone up to an IV or to practice giving a physical exam.</p>
<p>This seems like more a generational thing than a legitimate complaint. People using the internet in class is not a "problem"- it's different than the way the baby boomers did it, but different doesn't equal problem- Sometimes the laptop people are looking up on Wikipedia or google an explanation for what the hell the professor meant by what he just said. Are the lawyers now worse than they were pre-internet? Tough to say if there's any effect at all on the final product. The most valid concern in my view is that it may hurt the professor's pride/may be somewhat disrespectful- But then again, a lot grad school profs have plenty of pride to spare. </p>
<p>If you happen to be a parent footing some or all of the bill for a college education, I would imagine you have some say in what your child does, but beyond that (other people's kids, in which you have no financial/personal/otherwise interests), it's not really anyone's business but that person. I'm on my own as far as school goes now (parents helped a little in college), so in my opinion, as the CUSTOMER, taking out a butt-load of loans to attend these lectures, it's not the school's business how I choose to learn. As long as it doesn't hurt anyone else, e.g., a cellphone ringing during class damages the experience for everyone.</p>
<p>Everyone always feels like their generation got it right. Take this quote:</p>
<p>"The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for
authority, they show disrespect to their elders.... They no longer
rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents,
chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their
legs, and are tyrants over their teachers."</p>
<p>This quote is commonly attributed to Socrates.</p>
<p>son of opie makes some good points about his experience (med school?) but the law schools' concern over this issue has a lot to do with law school courses being discussion based. If law profs didn't believe students learn from discussing the materials together, law school could become an on-line enterprise and we could all sit home in our pajamas. </p>
<p>As far as the level of distraction, it's very disconcerting to a professor when a student sits in the top row smiling or laughing at odd intervals, or pokes his neighbor to look at something on the screen. I imagine it is a bit disruptive to other students too. </p>
<p>While in-class surfing is bad simply because it is really rude, it is also short-sighted on the student's part. There is no way to catch every nuance of a discussion, so the student will learn less than she should in the class. If she realizes the gap in learning, she will then have to pepper the prof with questions that were fully addressed already, which wastes everyone's time. If she goes away blissfully ignorant, she's happy enough, but arguably is taking up space that could readily be filled by an equally qualified but more interested student. </p>
<p>Even though law schools want to treat their adult learners like responsible adults, it's no surprise to me that they are beginning to react.</p>
<p>People not paying attention in meetings at work is also a problem, another side-effect of everyone being connected all the time.</p>
<p>Silicon</a> Valley meetings go 'topless' - Los Angeles Times</p>
<p>But I do agree with earlier posters who say it's a generational thing--those who grew up on the Internet are able to multi-task much better than those of us who didn't. I have often been amazed at how quickly and matter-of-factly S can go on-line and find needed info, and I can see how this could be useful in law school. Also would point out that S has always taken class notes on his laptop, starting in 9th grade--his handwriting is laborious and unintelligible. </p>
<p>IMHO, let the students use their laptops, and if they aren't using them properly that's THEIR problem, not the prof's. Sounds like helicoptering to me.</p>
<p>if the customer pays, why should it matter to the seller what they do with the product? many of you are right, most go to school for that paper at the end of graduation. because it'll be more of a guarantee (though not 100%) to get you an interesting and good paying job than someone who doesn't have that degree. it's that's why i'm at school. just about most people i've asked who are professionals tell me that most of the stuff they've learned in college doesn't even apply to what they do on a regular basis, since a lot of it is learned on the job and is gained with job experience in the field you are interested in.</p>
<p>i take my laptop to two of my classes one of which is for my major. i'll check e-mail and read other articles not pertinent to the class. and i still manage to participate and take in the important points of the lecture. it's not so much the professor's fault. for the major class i take, i've learn about the material since high school and so the professor doesn't really teach anything i haven't read about. for the other class, a business law class, the professor spends way too much time on topics (mostly because he's always digressing, either that or students are too slow to comprehend the chapters from the textbooks and always ask questions) which are very self-explanatory if anyone reads the textbook.</p>
<p>each class is different. for my other major class i'm always paying attention and asking questions. for my accounting class, even tho i take my laptop, i still fall asleep in class. my stats class, i don't bother to take my laptop since i'm constantly writing formulas down and procedures.</p>
<p>I had a conversation with a graduate class recently about technology poisoning. I now routinely receive emails with no punctuation, no correct spelling, and casual slang -- students who have never met me address me by my first name. It's all part of a larger problem...</p>
<p>As a professor, I can tell you that whether it is reading a newspaper in class, painting nails, talking to a classmate, or surfing the web, all of these behaviors are disrespectful and preclude full attention to the class. When someone beside you isn't attending to what's going on, it does, in fact, serve as a distraction and therefore diminishes the experience for others. </p>
<p>I agree completely that these behaviors are cultural and fed by the technological changes that have overwhelmed us. But just as we should not tolerate a friend or co-worker talking on a phone during a meeting or dinner, we should also not allow students to do other tasks while they are charged with attending, discussing, and thinking during the time that they are in class.</p>
<p>Cognitive testing has shown conclusively that multi-tasking is something we perceive we can do much better than we actually do -- you can't split your attention and have the same grasp of the stimuli streams. It's simply not possible. </p>
<p>Reading a newspaper is not allowed in my classes and neither are laptops unless the student has a disability (eg., visually impaired) and requires the tool.</p>
<p>I work very hard to bring timely information and present it in a lively and interesting way. I doubt that my students would view me as particularly engaged if, when they are not very responsive, I simply "checked out" and started surfing the web for a while rather than teaching.</p>
<p>I have learned so much this week from all of these thoughtful posts. I must live a sheltered life because I wasn't aware that this was happening in classrooms and offices. I work as a substitute high school teacher, and laptops, blackberries, etc. are not allowed in classes. My H works in a lab, and it is also not an issue there.</p>
<p>Thanks to musicmom's comments, I can really visualize the distraction factor and how detrimental it is to the class when some (or maybe even most) of its members are not fully involved. I am sure that her students appreciate her efforts to teach well. </p>
<p>I will be sending a laptop with my son to college, and he will use it however he wants. I landed my helicopter a long time ago. I just wanted more information and to hear what you all thought.</p>