<p>I've been lurking for some time and decided to introduce myself. My dd is going to be a sophomore in hs so we're just starting this crazy journey. She is an exceptional sax player and wants to major in composition. She also is a very talented vocalist so may want to make her voice a secondary instrument in college (is that possible?) anyways, we're in Rochester so of course Eastman is an option but she wants to go away... Preferably to NYC because she wants to work on Broadway as a musician. I am so overwhelmed and don't know where to start, she is going to need scholarship money so that will be a big decision maker. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!</p>
<p>Welcome. There are a number of parents of composers on this Forum so we’ll be happy to guide you whenever possible. Is your daughter currently studying with a private teacher? Perhaps a professor from Eastman, or in their prep program? If not, I’d recommend that she get a teacher as soon as possible. It makes a huge difference.</p>
<p>Another recommendation at this stage is that she goes to every concert she can, and listens to music all the time - especially music written since 1975. And, if possible, that she performs music written in the last few decades. This will make her much more comfortable with the music of her time.</p>
<p>Then I recommend that she attend a summer program between sophomore and junior year. This will give her the opportunity to meet other young composers, and to get her work performed. Walden is one program easy to recommend, as well as Yellow Barn. And there’s the Atlantic Music Festival, Tanglewood and the NYSSMA one (I always get the initials wrong) - all in your general area.</p>
<p>Again, welcome to the journey.</p>
<p>Welcome! Can you tell us a little more about your daughter’s composing? </p>
<p>Is she thinking conservatory (BM) or college (BA, sometimes BM)? Here is a good essay on types of degrees: [Double</a> Degrees | Peabody Conservatory](<a href=“http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/conservatory/admissions/tips/doubledegree.html]Double”>http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/conservatory/admissions/tips/doubledegree.html)</p>
<p>Freestanding conservatories tend to give some merit aid but overall are pretty expensive. But those that are on a college or university campus often give better aid and can be affordable.</p>
<p>Your daughter is still young and a lot can change. My only general suggestion is to foster her interests and talents while also honoring all future options that seem possible, until the last minute if necessary.</p>
<p>Along with Spirit Managers’ suggestions of teacher, listening, and summer program, she could also focus on getting pieces played, and maybe at some point entering a few contests (state teacher’s competitions can be a start, and Walden School has a list of competitions on their site).</p>
<p>Stay in touch!</p>
<p>You might want to take a look at Westminster Choir College. They have vocal, composition and musical theatre tracks. Rider University, where WCC is located, also offers a pop music program and instrumental music. They seem to take a very multi-disciplined approach which might work well for your D. </p>
<p>[Welcome</a> to Westminster Choir College | Westminster Choir College](<a href=“http://www.rider.edu/wcc]Welcome”>Westminster Choir College | Rider University)</p>
<p>Welcome! One thing I wonder about is why your DD wants to major in composition, when it sounds like she would like to go into performance. While composition students as far as I know study on their instrument of choice, its primary focus is on writing music, which may not prepare someone to be a performing musician (I am saying may as in raising a question, not in claiming absolutes). Performance has a different emphasis and track than composition, which is what I ask that question, if her heart is in composition that is fine, but if her heart is performing I think it is a valid question. The other question I have does she see composition somehow as a fallback to being a performer…if so she should really think about that, composition is a rough, rough field to make a living in, no matter the genre, and there is nothing safe about it, it is as bad or maybe worse than being a performer…but if that is her heart, that is fine.</p>
<p>One thing she should know is that performing on Broadway is a tough nut to crack and getting tougher. Shows have cut down the size of pit orchestras and bands, and it tends to be a very small fraternity of musicians that do those shows (acquaintance of mine, a violist, has been doing that for years, been in the pits of a lot of the big productions ov er the past 25 years or so…), and they are constantly looking to try to switch to recorded music or more synthesizers…doesn’t mean she shouldn’t think of that, only to know that as a career it is like most of music, it is tough, and most musicians work a variety of jobs and such:). </p>
<p>I agree that she should work at as high a level as she can. A teacher at Eastman might be valuable, even if her current teacher is top notch, someone at Eastmen knows what is required if she wants to make it as a top level player, plus prob knows of programs and such that might be good for her. whether she wants to do performance or composition. It is really important to get a feel of what ‘serious music’ is like, it is a great way to see if she wants to do it.</p>
<p>I also agree with listening to music, that is huge, though I wouldn’t personally, either for composition or performance, restrict it to music from any era, and I don’t think music written since 1975 is more valuable than looking at a broad base from all eras and places… one of the issues with composition IMO is that for many years it has been too narrow and restricted, instead of freeing composers it seems to have locked them into either minimalism or 12 tone/serialism as being ‘right’, I would listen to music from all eras and from around the world, and find your muse, rather than what orthodoxy often says, plus as a composer it gives you freedom to work in many different places. My S had a teacher at his prep program who works with a well known entertainer/performer/actor as kind of his music director, and has written stuff ranging from symphonies to pop tunes, amazing guy, and if I was going to recommend anything, it would be to be flexible as a composer and not be afraid to do what your heart tells you:)</p>
<p>The other thing is, as she gets immersed more and more in this, at times it will be overwhelming, it will seem the craziest thing in the world, it will seem like why would any rational person do this…she will go through periods of elation and periods of gloom if my experiences hold, and know this is perfectly normal, my S was shocked to find out when he talked to kids that in his eyes were so accomplished, ‘light years’ ahead of him in his eyes, that they had the same fears and such he did:). I also will add that despite popular conviction that if you don’t go to college and major in something ‘useful’ you will not be able to recover if you do something like music, that is hogwash. While I am in the realism school of things, like with your DD wanting to do Broadway, I also think that if after all the stress and struggles, practice, immersion summer programs and such it is still her muse, then go for it. The world is full of successful people (in conventional and unconventional terms) who majored in music/music performance, tried, decided to leave it as a profession, and have done well.</p>
<p>My daughter is a classical saxophonist just beginning conservatory studies in less than 2 weeks.</p>
<p>Does your daughter want to study jazz or classical saxophone? I can help you with classical; others can provide more assistance on jazz. For example, Eastman has an excellent summer classical saxophone institute. My daughter attended it the summer after her 9th grade.</p>
<p>To be a “musician” on Broadway, one cannot only play saxophone. She’d have to be an expert on clarinet and flute as well, at a minimum.</p>
<p>Musicprnt - although, of course, I would recommend listening to ALL music from all times and from everywhere - for a prospective composition student it is very important for them to get familiar with the world they’re seeking to enter. Composition programs in conservatory level programs are going to be populated by living composers writing music of this time - and that is the lens through which they’ll be viewing the prospective students. They are seeking students who are interested in writing 21st century music - while they may teach the fundamentals & skills of writing like Bach, Mozart & Beethoven - that would be a rare program where that is the dominant aesthetic. If an aspiring composer is not comfortable with the music written in the last 40 years, they need to be very careful in their choice of program. </p>
<p>As for what the aesthetic is of New Music - it’s all over the place. There’s something for everyone.</p>
<p>If she is interested in composition, she might want to take a conservatory prep, online course or high school class on theory and music history. Interviews/auditions for composition involve testing on these things, though they are for placement reasons. Still, it helps in interviews and even on the application itself to know a little about the history and the technical side of composition.</p>
<p>As for which era to listen to, I think that Spirit Manager’s suggestion to listen to more recent works (20th, 21st century I would say) is to compensate, because many student musicians, even at the conservatory level, are not exposed to many modern or contemporary composers. There are festivals trying to address this (a recent one at Tanglewood focused on Lachenmann for instance.) Alex Ross’ book “The Rest is Noise” is a great resource on this. And “new music” is certainly no longer dogmatic or stuck in the 1960’s European avant-garde, minimalism, serialism… The composition world is dizzying in its variety.</p>
<p>That said, of course it is great to know a lot of music from centuries past, going back to early music, in fact. But music students in high school tend to be exposed to the “classical” period most often, so it helps to learn about works outside that era.</p>
<p>I would say that composing is a calling, at least in the “classical” world. People ask about composing for film or games or for popular songs, and there are programs for that. But overall, people study it because they have to, they are compelled, and it may be a long haul through a PhD program to teach. Some have day jobs, and compose on the side.</p>
<p>Some of us came on here some years ago with kids who were applying for composition. (And mine has not touched an instrument the whole time by the way.) Now our kids are facing graduation and how to proceed. I am confident in saying that we, the parents, don’t regret our kids’ choices- no matter what they end up doing now!</p>
<p>I do think it is a little early to look at schools, but maybe others feel differently. Your daughter may surprise you in the next 3 years, who knows. Right now, to help at all, we would need more information, but I don’t think she really needs to think about BA versus BM at this point. If she does want to compose, then people have made suggestions for the next few years that she can follow without thinking about school choices as yet.</p>
<p>One other thing fyi- not to stress over yet - is that application for composition at conservatories and other programs often require a portfolio of 3-4 pieces, and at least some of them should be played by live musicians of the best quality possible (MIDI is okay for one or two). For a high school composer, sometimes musicians will volunteer or work for low pay. One of the most valuable benefits of a summer program or conservatory prep program is that the student can get pieces played and recorded for the portfolio.</p>
<p>For many college programs, there is no audition or portfolio required and the student goes in as a general music major (not all programs are like this, but many are). In that case, when it is an application for a BA in music, the applicant can submit a CD and an arts supplement with music resume, letters from music teachers, concert programs, and so on.</p>
<p>Hope this is not overwhelming and, again, welcome!</p>
<p>Wow! What an incredible welcome, thank you! I’m going to try to answer all of you, this may take me a few posts! LOL</p>
<p>SpiritManager - she is not currently taking private comp lessons but is starting very soon. She did a composition program this summer at Nazareth College and made some great connections there and one of the the teachers is a very accomplished composer who has offered to teach her private lessons. </p>
<p>She was all set to go to the summer program at SUNY Potsdam this summer but when she found out there where no comp classes offered, she lost all interest in going. I will definitely look into some of those other ones for next summer. She loved the one at Nazareth this summer.</p>
<p>As far as the music she listens to, she listens to it all. She cracks me up because she knows 80’s songs better than I do, LOL.</p>
<p>Compmom - I’ve read so many of your posts already, I feel like I know you already, LOL! I don’t know if she has made the distinction between conservatory or college. I personally think she will lean more towards conservatory so that it will be more of a complete immersion for her but I’m not sure. </p>
<p>She did get a couple of her ensembles played at the summer program she was at this summer and her sax quartet has played a lot of her pieces. She is really lucky and has an amazing band teacher who is also a professional musician and is so supportive and gives her tons of advice. He will be a great source of information over the next couple of years. We were actually just talking about some contests she might enter this year. </p>
<p>I look forward to picking your brain some more!</p>
<p>Musicprnt - Her first love is composition but her private lesson teacher has told her that she would still need to have a primary instrument…which would be her sax. She can play all of the various saxes and clarinet. Comp is where her heart is though. She just glows when she finishes writing something, she loves it so much and its definitely not a fallback. Her “dream” would be to compose music for Broadway, so I think that’s why she thinks she needs to start by trying to perform there. It’s all in who you know, or so they say? </p>
<p>She does have a private lesson teacher at Hochstein, and she’s going to start comp lessons too. I just want to support her as much as I can, I was talked out of what I really wanted to do “way back when” and its so exciting to see her with such a clear passion and goal. I still don’t know exactly what I want to be when I grow up!</p>
<p>Woodwinds - My daughter definitely likes classical more than jazz…she’s going on her second year in the high school jazz band but loves playing the classical stuff more. Where is your daughter going? That is one thing I’ve seen is that it seems like its Jazz or nothing for saxophone. She did a woodwind ensemble at Eastman this summer too.</p>
<p>dembrooks, it is true that most people, when they think of saxophone, think of it as a jazz instrument, but one can do well in music in classical as well, especially when combining it with other areas of music.</p>
<p>If your daughter wants to study music composition, you’ll have to look at schools specifically for that. With classical saxophone, as with other instruments, your daughter should listen to saxophone recordings to decide who she likes best, and also meet these instructors to find the best fit for her. My daughter will study with Gary Louie at Peabody.</p>
<p>I’d recommend going to BUTI Tanglewood next summer. My daughter loved the Wind Ensemble last summer, and the two-week sax workshop for classical sax is outstanding.</p>
<p>There are many schools where you can study composition without playing an instrument (and many where you do have to play an instrument).</p>
<p>You mentioned 80’s songs, Broadway and a love of classical. Does your daughter compose in a particular genre or style?</p>
<p>No, she’s done a variety of things. She does arrangements of popular music all the time because her friends want to play them. She’s also been doing some older music… She just did Swan Lake. Most of her original stuff is more classical though.</p>
<p>dembrooks, I think you will enjoy reading this thread, especially the posts by soozievt whose daughter has been working in NYC as a performer, educator and composer.</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/1318265-what-future-our-mts-training.html?highlight=commission[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/1318265-what-future-our-mts-training.html?highlight=commission</a></p>
<p>I would encourage you to help your daughter explore all her interests and resist attempts to push her in one direction or another as she still has a couple of years before even making college decisions.</p>
<p>I know for a fact that at Rice, if you study composition, you will have to become proficient at piano. Along with your composition portfolio, Rice also requires that you submit two recordings in your primary instrument.</p>
<p>jeannemar offers a great comment, with admirable brevity:</p>
<p>"I would encourage you to help your daughter explore all her interests and resist attempts to push her in one direction or another as she still has a couple of years before even making college decisions. "</p>
<p>That was a great and informative thread, thanks!</p>