Is a near full-ride to Michigan OOS worth passing over Stanford and Yale?

Parents Forum
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<p>I've been batting this around for a while and have still not decided. I like Michigan a lot. I LOOOVE Stanford. I like Yale too and think it would be a good fit for me. Before this year money wasn't so much of an issue, but when the economy tanked, well, I'm sure many of you are going through the same story. </p>

<p>I really like Michigan because it seems like it has a great campus culture, amazing sports, great reputation in the midwest, strong academics (though likely marginally less than the other two schools), as well as it being so large that by volume I'll meet a good amount of extraordinary people, but also be exposed to more "normal" people as well.</p>

<p>However, I worry that the intellectual climate will be significantly lacking compared to the other schools, I hate HATE HATE the cold, 65% of the kids are from in-state, and it's quite large, which has some obvious drawbacks</p>

<p>I've loved Stanford ever since I first learned about it. I think it would provide the best overall academic experience. I love that it has one of the best academic reputation and attracts the top profs. I like that it places a strong emphasis on diversity of all kinds, and the single most important non-academic factor in choosing a school to me is the people. I like that it has a strong sports program in basketball and it's getting there in football (though michigan's is FAR better). I love the weather . And I like that the atmosphere seems to stand counter to the old-money elitism of some new england schools. However, Stanford will give me hardly any aid, and I worry that the bubble may not have much going on and I wonder about the school pride compared to Michigan. </p>

<p>Yale is Yale. Traditions, Academics, Ivy League, People, all of it is tops. But no aid, is cold, and is not Stanford. </p>

<p>Most other people, as well as my initial logic, tells me to save 160k and go to Michigan! I'm planning on going to Law school soon after undergrad, so it would make sense to save that money and use it to virtually pay for law school afterwards. Heartwise, I know if I had my choice I would choose Stanford. But do I really even know what I want? I know I'll have a great time and get a good education whichever place I choose. </p>

<p>But something doesn't add up to me. If an undergraduate degree from HYPS isn't worth significantly more than one from a top public school, and 50% of students at these schools are paying full-boat who could likely get a full-ride from one of those top publics, are they all losing money, better off going to a cheaper school? It made me think about whether this was one of those decisions that give people who come from wealthier backgrounds and advantage simply because of their thought process. Additionally, with increasing globalization (how trite) a degree from Stanford or Yale WOULD have a very significant advantage in employability abroad where their names are far more highly recognized and the culture is more status-centric. </p>

<p>I wonder if this is my opportunity to grab? It would only be the first year, possibly two, that my family would have trouble paying for. I would just need loans to hold me over until the stock market comes back up. If I were to make a decision on this last year, when money wasn't as much of an issue, I would have chosen Stanford hands down. Does that mean I would have made a bad decision back then? </p>

<p>And how much is the intangible value of being exposed to the people and environment of a Stanford or a Yale, where, depending on how much you engage it, you will be cultivated and learn habits that make people very successful? Do I want to be more in the middle of the pack academically, or at the head? </p>

<hr>

<p>So, leaving that debate that I probably should have kept in my head, is 160k in merit scholarships to Michigan (along with Ross pre-admit), worth passing up my dream school, Stanford, or the Ivy tradition of Yale? </p>

<p>And why? If you could address any of the things I mentioned above, that would be great!</p>

<p>Thanks! Any input is welcome.</p>

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<p>Go to Stanford or Yale for law school.</p>

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<p>Are you already accepted to all three? Or, is this just hypothetical "what if" wondering?</p>

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<p>The key thing you mentioned in your post is that you would like to go to law school.</p>

<p>Law school is very expensive. It's not the best idea to have a lot of debt from your undergraduate years if you're also going to need to pay for law school.</p>

<p>Thus, if you are reasonably sure that law school is in your future, that's a powerful argument in favor of Michigan.</p>

<p>Also, Michigan is pretty well known internationally -- most of the big research universities are. I wouldn't worry about that.</p>

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<ol>
<li><p>Yes I've been accepted to all 3, the only what if is on +/- 60k at Umich. Nonetheless, whether I save 120k or 180k doesn't change the situation much!</p></li>
<li><p>I'm not sure I want to go to law school. But I think I'm sure I'm going to want more education. What exactly I want to do probably changes every two months currently.</p></li>
<li><p>I don't want to choose a college solely based on future income, a lot of what I want to choose is based on undergraduate atmosphere. However, if my parents are going to have to make an investment, return is also very important. So if I were going to ask them to make an investment that, financially, likely would not pay off, in order for me to gain some intangible benefit, I want to know I'm making the right choice.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>OMG I hate seeing you post, it seems you are so blessed I wish I had these opportunities. But I digress, assuming that you don't get merit aid from Stanford or Yale (which you should check before you make a decision) then the full ride to Michigan would definitely probably be a better option. I mean since you are good enough to get into Yale and Stanford undergrad i would think you would be capable of getting into them for Law school although that is speculative.
But you should know that UMichigan's Law school is top notch as well. So even if you go Michigan/Michigan for undergrad and law you will probably save a BUNCH of money and still be get a job making 100K+ coming straight out of law school.
And remember that social life is a BIG component of any college experience and in my opinion you might have a better social life if you have 160K in the bank, meaning movies and dates and anything else you want, whereas at yale you might have to eat Ramen noodles maybe.</p>

<p>P.S. Definitely don't go to Yale, that way if I get waitlisted or something there is a better chance that I will get in.</p>

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<p>This is a question that gets debated eternally here on CC. "Is it worth the $$$$?"</p>

<p>It's definitely NOT worth it if you have to go into massive debt to go to S or Y. </p>

<p>S and Y are two different types of schools. S is large university, much like UMich. Big on sports, great academics, great campus culture. Y is a smaller college with residential housing for all 4 years. Completely different feel to the college experience.</p>

<p>I've been to giant university undergrad and small professional school, and I have to say that I enjoyed the small atmosphere better. </p>

<p>One problem with Stanford diversity is that it has A LOT of California kids at it. </p>

<p>If you are sure that law school is in your future, you should know that you'll be taking out large loans to finance it (financial aid isn't run the same way in the professional schools). There was a thread on CC about a couple who were making $200K plus a year and couldn't keep up with their student loans of $150K. Loans in the hundreds of thousands of dollars are a giant millstone around your neck when you are starting out in life.</p>

<p>In this case, I'd take the UMich $$ and save the college fund for law school (make sure that is the understanding of your parents). Do really well at UMich and then go for your favorites at the law school stage. It's by no means guaranteed that you'll get in, but a GREAT record at UMich will not close any doors for you.</p>

<p>If you can get through undergrad and law school with little to no debt, you will be SOOO grateful later in life.</p>

<p>Best of luck with your decision.</p>

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<p>ask your parents if they will put the 60K a year it would cost to go to Yale/Stanford in the bank for you if you go to Michigan. </p>

<p>Imagine having a Michigan undergraduate degree and 180K in the bank for a house or grad school when you get out. </p>

<p>hmmm easy choice to me but I grew up in a very practical house and in the west there is not as much attraction to the Ivy.</p>

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<p>^^Many law schools offer large merit scholarships to top applicants. Maybe not Stanford Law or Yale Law, but law schools like Duke or Georgetown (which are still top notch) offer scholarship money.
So in four years if you decide to go to a slightly less prestigous law school then you could have a hefty merit scholarship.
Law school debt is probably not that big of a deal from really top law schools. I mean the average starting salary now is like 135K at the University of Texas and at schools of yale or Stanford caliber it is probably like 160K in BigLaw.</p>

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<p>"1. Yes I've been accepted to all 3, the only what if is on +/- 60k at Umich. Nonetheless, whether I save 120k or 180k doesn't change the situation much!"</p>

<p>Did you apply last year and defer your acceptances? Otherwise, I can see how you could have been admitted already to Michigan and either Stanford or Yale, but you could only apply EA to one of those last two. What am I missing?</p>

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<p>I would say University of Michigan- Ann Arbor</p>

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<p>As far as the intellectual stimulation at Michigan being 'lacking' compared to the other schools, I'm assuming that if you got a full ride at Michigan, then you will be eligible for their honors program. You will probably find within the honors program, you will be incredibly challenged. So you might want to rethink that component.</p>

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<p>My meager 2 cents.</p>

<p>Yep Michigan is cold. Cold as heck this year...Snow that fell in December is just now melting..and that's because we are having some unusually warm weather for the moment (yay!)</p>

<p>Large campus and lots of walking..in the cold!! Michigan starts getting chilly in October and will start to warm up in May.</p>

<p>That being said, I enjoyed my time there, but then I am from Michigan.</p>

<p>Getting that much aid from U-M is a blessing and I am in the camp that would prefer to not have massive debt upon graduation. But as always, quality of life is important.</p>

<p>U-M is huge in so many ways. You will be a number and if you are not motivated, you will get lost in the crowd. Be prepared for freshman lectures to have 200-300 students. If you are in the honors program or a residential program, then yes, it's more managable.</p>

<p>As far as U-M being intellectually stimulating, I believe it is. U-M is the flagship university for Michigan, so for in-state students, you are getting the best and brightest. OOS students are definitely scrutinized.</p>

<p>I hope you have visited or plan to visit all 3 campuses. That should help in your decision. Good luck!!</p>

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<p>To the person wondering how he was accepted to all three. Tyler got a likely letter from Yale, effectively meaning that he is accepted.</p>

<p>P.S. I don't know this bc I am a stalker, i know bc he started another thread about it.</p>

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<p>This is too individual of a decision for other posters to be of much help. We all pay money for things we want and we make decisions about their worth depending on our means and the relative desire to obtain what we want.</p>

<p>If it was purely a 'value' decision, I imagine no one would ever pay anywhere close to full price at any of the top expensive privates including HYPS for UG since almost all of them would probably be able to get a full or near-full ride elsewhere. And it's not as if these other colleges don't have professors perfectly capable of teaching history, poliSci, engineering, bio, chem, etc. so it's perfectly possible for a student to get a fine UG education at someplace other than HYPS. </p>

<p>But for some people they value either what they think they'll attain by attending HYPS or value their 'desire/dreams' to attend HYPS enough to pay the dough. And for some people $160K is a huge amount of money and for some others it's no big deal. For some it's a matter of hocking themselves to the max and others it's a matter of just writing a check. For many it's somewhere in between which makes the decision more difficult.</p>

<p>It all comes down to individual desires, means, and circumstances.</p>

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<p>Since you've posted in the parent's forum....Do your parents have a preference?</p>

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<p>My parents are... complicated.</p>

<p>The situation is, my parents are going to pay for my undergrad so that I will not graduate with any loans. The real issue is that they have to start putting my sister through school two years after me, so for two years they will be paying for two kids to go to college at the same time. If the economy picks back up, that won't be so much of a problem as they have saved since me and my sister were born. But if it doesn't, I would have to take out loans that my parents may or may not be able to help me pay off. So unless they can afford to send both me and my sister anywhere we want to go, it wouldn't be fair for me to get to go to HYPS, potentially limiting the options of my sister. </p>

<p>My dad, fiscally, has a very VERY hard time passing up Michigan. It's a GREAT school, and at 160k cheaper he knows that financially, I will likely never recover the difference by paying to go to Stanford. He also has to consider my sister and my graduate school. He knows that wherever I go, I'll have a blast, simply because I'll be on my own in college.</p>

<p>At the same time he has always dreamed of me going to a HYPS school, it is part of his legacy of working hard throughout his life to escape the poverty that he was born into. He knows what it would mean to the rest of our extended family. I know that in having the opportunity to send his kid, and then not being able to because of financial reasons would hurt him. He also knows that while, yes, Stanford law or grad or MBA is FAR more prestigious and financially worth it than undergrad, you are far more shaped as a person by where you go undergrad. He wants me to have the best possible experience during what, for many, are the most fun 4 years of life.</p>

<p>My mom wants me to go to Stanford. Of course there's the aspect where she loves me and she wants me to be happy. She understands the life-value beyond just financials of going where you dream to go and where you fit best. But I also know that part of the reason is that she was forced by her parents to go wherever gave her the most money. She had a great time at the school she went to but always knew that she would have been a better fit at a smaller school with a design program. She knows that because of her decision, she picked a career she likely would not have if she went to the school she wanted. </p>

<p>Ultimately I have no idea what to do. On the one hand I know that the best financial decision, hands down, is Michigan. But why I want to go supersedes financials. But I don't know if I could ask my parents to make an investment based on that. </p>

<p>At the end of the day where I'll end up is determined by where my dad decides, but he is probably even more conflicted then I am. I have yet to really push him into letting me go to Stanford because I don't know if that's the right thing to do. If I push hard to go and he ends up having to say no, that will only make things worse. </p>

<p>So that's why I posted here, to decide what to do. I can choose to say that I would love to go to Michigan and not force my parents to make the decision, or I can advocate for Stanford or Yale.</p>

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<p>Well...now we know why you've got so many wonderful opportunities. You're insightful, thoughtful and a great writer! Congratulations! </p>

<p>Unfortunately, I can't offer much advice to help you. We picked the dream school/loan route. Spectacular experience for our child. But, our lifestyle has changed.....and I don't have the longitudinal data to know if it's been worth it (financially and otherwise) yet.</p>

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<p>Tyler, have you visited Umich yet? Seems to me that some of your indecision could be resolved by finding out more about Michigan -- either confirming or refuting your concerns about the intellectual atmosphere &c.</p>

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<p>It is impossible to give meaningful financial advice without knowing the exact situation But if your parents are OK with Stanford - go for it... If not - I'm sure you'll be fine at UMich as well. But if you just give up on Stanford, you'll always wonder "what if?".</p>

<p>I can only speak for our family, but for us it was absolutely worth it.</p>