Is a post bacc worth the money and time?

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
1

I’m sorry if somebody asked this already but I’m a junior in SUNY stony brook and currently pre-med. my gpa is super low because I unfortunately had to go through a lot of health and personal problems for the last couple years. My advisors are telling me to do a post bacc, I just want to know if it really will help my chances in getting into med school since they are pretty expensive…

Some background about me:

  • my gpa is not even 3.0 it’s 2.5 (sad I know)
  • Im doing a BA in Biology and minor in English
  • I have some extracurricular activities: I’m in 3 clubs, I did a global health brigade chapter in Honduras, I have clinical hours and some shadowing experience also.
  • my science gpa is terrible I mostly have B’s and C’s Because most of the prerequisites I completed in freshman year which was a very low point in my life. My gpa is slowly rising but since I’m practically done with my degree I have no more science courses to take.

I was thinking maybe a post bacc that will enhance my academic record and let me earn a masters. I know a lot of ppl might say do you even want to be a doctor and yes I do and not just because “ I want to help people”. I have actually worked for 3 years in a GI And Hepatology Practice as a medical assistant and secretary so I am very familiar with the lifestyle. I just want to exhaust every possibility I have to make sure I get into med school( MD or DO).

Any advice would be greatly appreciated thank you guys in advance!

2

You’ll get plenty of advice here…
First, MCAT/GPA for medical school:
https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/85992/bymcatscoresandgpas.html

Regarding a post-bacc: Before making any decisions, you may want to carefully review the entrance requirements for post-bacc programs. For example, Georgetown
https://premed.georgetown.edu/postbac/potential-students/
GPA: 3.2 and “B” or above in science/math classes; unfortunately, you don’t meet that.
It may be best to work for several years, see if you still want to be a physician, and then apply as a non-traditional.

3

Thank you for replying! I did search around some post baccs in my state (I live in ny) and I do meet a couple. The only problem I’m really having is that financial aspect and whether or not my chances increase. I am confident I can pull a 3.0 in my senior year it’s just that science gpa that I’m really worried about. Also I haven’t decided which exam to take before the program mcats or gre. Since mcats are only valid for three years.

4

What is your year-by-year GPA breakdown? Do you have a strongly rising GPA trend?

A few medical schools look at only your last 30-90 credits when considering GPA/sGPA.

Will you consider osteopathic medical schools?

Because of your very low sGPA, you will need a grade-enhancing post-bacc (formal or informal) followed by a SMP (Special Master’s Program) to have the best chance for a medical school admission. This means an additional 3-4 years of full time studies or the equivalent–without much in the way of financial aid except unsubsidized student loans. (Assuming you haven’t exhausted your student loan eligibility) SMPs are expensive–think $50K or more/year.

This is an extremely expensive road to follow without any guarantees of ever getting a med school admission (Probably 1 in 4 or lower). Also most successful SMP grads are admitted into osteopathic medical schools. If you will not consider DO programs, your road will be longer and with a lower likelihood of success.

This is not a route I would recommend to anyone unless medicine is only career they can envision themselves doing. I also suggest that you first consider other medicine-based careers first–PA, advanced practice nursing, anesthesia assistant, etc. --before pursuing a post-bacc + SMP.

BTW, the Georgetown program @crankyoldman linked above is for Career Changers—students without their science pre-reqs. What you need is a grade-enhancing post bacc, one that will improve your academic profile.

AMCAS has a searchable database here: https://apps.aamc.org/postbac/#/index

Choose “academic record enhancer” as the type. Choose “graduate” as the level to find SMPs.


Re: which exam to take.  Many formal grade enhancing post-baccs do not require a MCAT or GRE score for admission. These are big money-makers for many colleges and they will accept most applicants.

SMP--aka Special Master's Programs-- the best of these are offered at medical schools and require a MCAT score plus the an application portfolio identical to what's required for a med school application--LORs, appropriate ECs, personal statement, etc. These program may offer linkages (guaranteed interviews at the associated med school) for the top-performing students.

SMPs are high risk-high reward option for student with academic issues. Basically you take the first 1 to 2 years of medical school coursework, often side-by-side with current medical students. You will be competing against them for grades. If you finish in the top 15-25% of your class, then you have about a 50-50 chance of getting a med school acceptance. If you finish outside of the top group, then you've permanently lost any chance at med school.

I would not recommend that you pursue a post bacc immediately after graduation. I would take a few years to work, distance yourself from your current poor grades and build up a financial cushion to help pay for any additional coursework you need.

After a couple of years out of college, you could take 1-2 upper level ( or graduate level) bio or chem classes to see how you do. If your new grades are good and you still have a passion to pursue medicine, then you need to take enough UL or grad bio classes (informal post-bacc) until you’ve raised your GPA/sGPA high enough (3.0-3.2, depending on the program) to be eligible for a SMP.

Unfortunately there is no quick fix for a poor GPA. It may take years to repair your GPA enough to competitive for med school.

5

In light of the objectively low GPA of OP, it seems only career-change post-bacc programs-after a few years of work-would be appropriate.

6

@crankyoldman
Career changer post-baccs are designed for non-science majors who haven’t taken any (or at most 1-2) of their BCPM pre-reqs.

Career changer post-baccs only offer the the very minimum of BCPM classes needed to take the MCAT and satisfy admission requirements for most med school. Career changer post-baccs will not accept students who have taken med school pre-reqs previously.

The OP has already taken all the pre-reqs and will have a bio degree when they graduate. Retaking pre-reqs won’t raise their sGPA enough to make them an attractive candidate for med schools. They need an academic enhancer program that offers challenging UL or graduate level bio & chem coursework that will demonstrate their ability to compete academically at high level.

@tbh082803 You should not retake any pre-reqs you’ve already taken unless you’ve earned a C- or below. You need to take additional UL bio and chem classes to raise your sGPA and demonstrate that you’ve overcome your weak academic start in college.

If you can manage 2 years of near 4.0 work in nothing but UL bio and chem classes, you may have a chance at some osteopathic programs. If you must have a MD, then you need to apply to SMPs.

7

You both are so helpful thank you so much!

In regards to my gpa, my semester gpa have improved greatly. Last semester I think it was a 3.5. I started out freshman year with a 2.2, then it rose to 2.7 and I was doing ok until my I ran into some personal problems at home and spring semester of my sophomore year brought it down to 2.3. It’s now a 2.5 but I’m pretty confident I can graduate with at least a 3.0 non science gpa.

And yes I am considering DO school also. One of the doctors I work for is a DO and I have shadowed him before.

Currently I’m looking at the masters program at Icahn School of Medicine and Hofstra. I am interested in the program at Touro College also however that program requires a 3.2 science GPA. I am unsure as to tell which programs are SMP. The programs I’m looking at right now are all academic enhancers and are degree granting.

I have thought about PA school however most PA schools require at least a 3.0 science gpa which again is an obstacle.

8

Here’s list of post-baccs with the type (includes links to program pages!), arranged by state. Also includes what admission test, if any, is required and the minimum GPA.

http://manoa.hawaii.edu/undergrad/pac/health/post-bacc-special-masters-programs/

Icahn’s Master of Science in Biomedical Science is a academic record enhancer. 45 credits @ $1100/credit, 18-24 months in length.

Touro’s program is a SMP with linkage–

I believe the Touro program also requires a MCAT score for admission.

Hofstra’s program is for career changers and is designed for students who have not previously studied science.

9

I will let you know, LOL! My oldest is currently in Med school. Her sister who had similar stats (but lower science GPA) applied 2 cycles later, and had 2 waitlists and no admissions-only applied to 4 schools, though. It was devastating. She applied to 4 post bacc programs, and was accepted to all (Georgetown, Loyola, University of Vermont, and Boston University). She ended up at UVM, chosen because she was sick of the highly competitive nature of her her academic undergrad, and quality of life (dog friendly city with lots of outdoor activity). She LOVES the program at UVM, but it is relatively new in compared to others. It is taught at the med school, and by med school faculty. She has made straight A’s and in many classes has had the highest average, or #2-3. She’s developed great relationships with professors who can write a recommendation. Her MCAT score was in the 80%, so she is re-taking that to get a higher score. If she gets 1 point more, she will get automatic interviews at many schools. It is a 3 semester program and she is financing with student loans and work study. She would go to UVM for med school in a heartbeat. She loves it there. I will update as she goes through this next cycle!

10

Omg that’s amazing she found a great opportunity! If you don’t mind I would love to hear updates! May I ask when she took the MCATs? I was initially going to take the GRE this summer but I realize that some programs require MCAT scores. I would like to take my MCATs this year however I’m afraid they will become invalid by the time I am done with a post bacc.

11

I will definitely check it out! Thank you again! I realized the touro program does require MCAt scores however I’m hesitant to take my MCATs now. ( im also just considering schools that can give me financial aid) I’m afraid it will become invalid by the time I’m done with my post bacc. Assuming I get into touro and it’s linkage program that shouldn’t be a problem but Incase I don’t my MCATs will expire in 3 years and most post baccs are 2 years. I’m not sure if I should just the GRE or MCAT this year or both.

I have also recently just found out about some programs for disadvantaged students. I think I’m going to look into those also!

12

You really shouldn’t jump into a postbacc right away but rather work (preferably in a hospital or health related setting - CNA? EMT? clinic?) And/or continue what you’re doing for clinical hours, while taking advanced classes in biology and chemistry. Once you’ve established a strong record (several advanced classes) with As, then you should take the GRE or MCAT and try for postbacc programs.

13

@tbh082803 A little more detail, my daughter took it between junior and senior year summer, had already planned a gap year after graduation to do research, which she did, getting 4 first author notations, and an award at a national symposium. She had a shaky science GPA her first 2 years in her weed-out science classes, but then had a 4.0 after. She had amazing interviews, amazing rec’s and great experience (both volunteer, and job. Still, when you are looking at amazing kids who all have great stats, and great rec’s the thing that puts you on waitlists (or rejection) is GPA. Her MCAT score was “good”, and I know people with lower scores who got into med school. So My daughter decided that a post bac program that is geared towards Med school admission would demonstrated 2 things. 1. She can handle the curriculum. and 2. She’s not taking NO for an answer. She wants to be a doctor. The fact is, IF had she had a stellar MCAT and “ok” science, I think she would be in Med School now, or stellar grades and “ok” MCAT, same. It is HARD to get in, and any student who gains admission, should be applauded. I’m hoping this does the trick, because she’s working her ASS off. One thing to think about, the classes in her MMS are basically studying for the MCAT (biochem, cell bio…so. MUCH SCIENCE). She needs only 1 more point on her MCAT to have guaranteed interview at so many places. I will be happy to keep you posted! In the coming year, I’ll have 1 applying to residency, and the other her second cycle of med school. Will have wine on tap.

14

@WayOutWestMom to your comment of taking UL classes how would one go about that after taking all of the pre reqs classes for med school and finishing their BS degree, would it be done under post bacc program? i was under the influence from earlier comments that you can not take post bacc if you have already finished your pre rqs for MD

15

You would take it while your finishing up your undergrad. So you can take it while you are finishing up your bachelors. If by any chance you didn’t then I think that’s when you would focus on upper division class material in your post bacc

16

A post bacc doesn’t need to be formal program. You can always take additional undergrad classes as a non-degree seeking student. However, non-degree seeking students are not eligible for federal financial aid and at most colleges non-degree seekers are given lower enrollment priority than full time students.

There are 2 kinds of post bacc, @frazi78 —Career changer post baccs for students who have not taken their pre-reqs and ** academic grade enhancement ** post baccs for people who have completed their pre-reqs, but whose GPAs are too low for medical school.

You need a academic record enhancer.

17

@frazi78
The programs that @moonchild is talking are SMPs. Most SMPs require a MCAT score for admission.

MCAT scores are good for 2-3 years. (AMCAS says 3 year from the date of testing, but a few med schools will only accept MCAT scores that 2 years or less.) You should take the MCAT after you’ve finished your pre-reqs and after you’ve had time to prepare for it. You should be consistently hitting your target score range on full length practice exams right before you take it.

Retaking the MCAT is just something you may need to do if you want to attend med school. It’s hoop that you need to jump through. The MCAT won’t be last major standardized exam you’ll have to take if you want to be physician–and it will be the easiest by far.