<p>Sony,</p>
<p>I guess that part of my mesage addressed the fact that my nephew got into a very competitive graduate program (Chemistry) at Yale from a public undergraduate university. The other part was how content both were with their state university undergrad experience. But I also "get" your love for Amherst and think you should aggressively pursue whatever help (financial, other insights, etc) you can that will make you feel that in the end you made the right decision for you.</p>
<p>For sciences, I'd pick UCSD over USC. UCSD also has the residential college system that makes it less impersonal and intimidating than Berkeley. </p>
<p>That said, I'd call Amherst and say that the disparity of FinAid offers is an impediment to you considering Amherst and that it's your dream school. They may not budge. But they may. And you don't know unless you try.</p>
<p>Sony, congrats on being invited into Amherst and two outstanding colleges in California. Of course you should write Amherst very specifcally about your issue and make a decision when you get the response. It is true that Amherst is a much more intimate learning environment that has appeal for you, but your situation with parents who have not had the privilege of such an education is not uncommon for families of recent immigrants and for some families who have been stateside many generations. You are clearly very talented and I recommend that you embrace the UC option that best suits your intended major and let Amherst go. It would be too weird there as 40% plus will be on big need $ support from the School and another large segment of the school will have parents shelling out the full cost. You will find that almost no one will be assuming that kind of debt at your age.
It is also a great good that you have invitations to stellar UC schools. There are many ways to make a larger college work for you...joining a group of people with shared interests, signing on as an intern or paid asst to a professor, initiating a lot in order to build a family of peers. Everyone 18 goes through a period of random socializing in a large or a small college and it can take a year or longer to find a set of friends who are your support systems but it can be done in either setting. I notice that my adult friends from UVa for instance are still raving about how much they loved it there..in some cases with more enthusiasm than friends with smaller top 20 LAC experiences. I kinda marvel at this because I went to a small personal undergrad school and still hear from my teachers 25 years later, but apparantly a great large university also has its own charms that overcome large classes and sessions with TAs. Large schools offer great diversity and the ability to move from peer group to peer group as you change and grow. LACs offer intimacy with teaching mentors which is also valuable, but sometimes after four years the peer group can get a bit small. Four years at a UC with strong record may be your ticket to a department at a grad school that will offer a smaller community for Part Two of your education. DO NOT take on a 100,000 dollar load for undergrad is my strong advice. We borrowed on a ten year plan for grad schools and basically barely could make one car payment and rent till we were thirty..no regrets but don't burden yourself with undergrad loans of great weight.<br>
Shabby chic poor is still a happy option for a good cause..but save it for grad school.<br>
Also, when you decide be happy. You have a lot to be proud about and you will meet great people at the UCs on staff and in your class.</p>
<p>RE: "I am going to talk to my dad to see the exact amount he will contribute, because, not to play any blame games, after all it is his income level that forced me into this situation."</p>
<p>Yup, sucks you were born into a family that can't foot 200K for amherst (which is what it will be after 7% increases next 3 years). And if you have younger siblings.. again curse you parents for thus having to fund their education too and not being able to devote all savings to you. </p>
<p>This is what I would do, as soon as you've sucked as much $$$ from your parents for whichever college you go to, disassociate yourself from such losers and never look back.</p>
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I am going to talk to my dad to see the exact amount he will contribute, because, not to play any blame games, after all it is his income level that forced me into this situation.
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<p>Ouch, that is a little harsh and the statement says that you are a little ungrateful for the lifestyle that your parents have provided for you and you've got a few entitlement issues going on here.</p>
<p>While it is nice that you got in to Amherst, it does not automatically mean that your parents should go in to debt to send you there. It just means if you put the same level of effort in college that you did in high school you will do well where ever you attend.</p>
<p>Shame on those bad parents. You know what you should do? *** Go where your money can take you***</p>
<p>Faline2: Thanks a lot for your personal experience. I definitely do not look down on the UCs; its just that I had my heart set on going to Amherst for so long, but I realize now that it is not worth it to put such large debt on my family--something I knew since the beginning post, but was simply denying the impossibility of my going there.
One question: What exactly do you mean by shabby chic poor? </p>
<p>FooMonChew: I think you read too much into that sentence. I appreciate everything both my parents have done for me and the sacrifices they have made; I've even noted my appreciation for them in my application essays. In my original post, I already weighed out different consequences of going to Amherst college, of creating such a large financial burden; your sarcastic statement was really unnecessary and hurtful. </p>
<p>Sybbie: Like FooMonChew, I think you read too much into that sentence. I appreciate everything my parents have done for me; because my parents, who are divorced, have a difficult time communicating about the financial aspects of college, it is very frustrating and many times I do not know what is going on and what exactly is going to happen in the future.
Again, I weighed out the consequences of going to Amherst in the beginning; I never said that I would force my parents to go into debt. I already acknowledged in my original post that the financial burdens of Amherst are great, and that I would definitely consider going to one of the UCs or USC--I'm sorry for any miscommunication I have caused.</p>
<p>The importance of this post for everyone is that this is not unusual, as time goes by after you apply you may well decide on one type of college, in this case a very small LAC. The other schools are as far as you can get from this, but it seems like the op would have gotten way better aid, and probably great merit aid, from a imilar school ranked slightly lower. How about a gap year?</p>
<p>Based on our experience, the EFC from Amherst is better than FAFSA. I think they made an error or received erroneous info. I would contact them and tell them your EFC, and ask what happened? They are processing a lot of FA packages, and it could be an error was made.</p>
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At UC-Berkeley and UC-San Diego, I qualify for the Regents'/Chancellor's scholarships at both, plus my EFC is around 10k.
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<p>Remember a school where you only have to file the FAFSA, uses the Federal Methodology to calculate, your aid and you do not have to report the income of your NCP.</p>
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PS. There is such a large discrepancy because of the extent to which Amherst accounts for noncustodial income.
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<p>Schools that use the FAFSA long with the CSS profile / their own institutional forms (Amherst) does look at the income assets of both your parents, custodial/non-custodial and even your step parents. </p>
<p>This is the main reason there is a discrepancy in your EFC as you are looking at 2 schools that use 2 different methodologies for calculating aid.</p>
<p>Your EFC from a school that only uses the FAFSA will look very different from a school that uses the FAFSA and the CSS profile or their own instiutional aid form.</p>
<p>The information from the profile will account for your increase in EFC because your EFC may show that you have considerable income/assets/equity which shows up on the profile that you don't have to indicate on the FAFSA.</p>
<p>The FAFSA is requested by all schools and is mainly used by schools that calculate FA using the federal methodology. </p>
<p>The schools that require the CSS profile often distribute their own institutional funds and use an institutional/ concensus methodolody. The Profile is used to get a more complete picture of your financial situation.</p>
<p>Differences between the IM and FM models include:</p>
<p>IM collects information on estimated academic year family income, medical expenses, elementary and secondary school tuition and unusual circumstances. FM omits these questions.</p>
<p>IM considers a fuller range of family asset information, while FM ignores assets of siblings, all assets of certain families with less than $50,000 of income, and both home and family farm equity.</p>
<p>FM defines income as the adjusted gross income on federal tax returns, plus various categories of untaxed income. IM includes in total income any paper depreciation, business, rental or capital losses which artificially reduce adjusted gross income.</p>
<p>FM does not assume a minimum student contribution to education; IM expects the student, as primary beneficiary of the education, to devote some time each year to earning money to pay for education.</p>
<p>FM ignores the noncustodial parent in cases of divorce or separation; IM expects parents to help pay for education, regardless of current marital status.</p>
<p>FM and IM apply different percentages to adjust the parental contribution when multiple siblings are simultaneously enrolled in college, and IM considers only siblings enrolled in undergraduate programs.</p>
<p>The IM expected family share represents a best estimate of a familys capacity (relative to other families) to absorb, over time, the costs of education. It is not an assessment of cash on hand, a value judgment about how much a family should be able to use current income, or a measure of liquidity. The final determinations of demonstrated need and awards rest with the University and are based upon a uniform and consistent treatment of family circumstances.</p>
<p>Except in the most extraordinary circumstances, Colleges classifies incoming students as dependent upon parents for institutional aid purposes, even though some students may meet the federal definition of independence.</p>
<p>Students enrolling as dependent students are considered dependent throughout their undergraduate years when need for institutional scholarships is determined.</p>
<p>For institutional aid purposes a student may not declare independence due to attainment of legal age, internal family arrangements, marriage or family disagreements.</p>
<p>Your COA (cost of attendance) is tuition, room board, books travel expenses and some misc. expenses associated with attending college.</p>
<p>No matter how you slice it, $180,000 is a lot of money. Your parents have already stated that they can't/won't pay/borrow this amount because they feel that you have more viable options (a good in-state school, and a school where you are getting a considerable FA package that most likely has merit money within it). </p>
<p>As a student, there are cumulative limit of $23,000 which you can borrow for an undergraduate education using stafford or perkins loans. This means your likelihood of geting the rest of the $157,000 (not counting increases) are going to be nil without your parents as co-signers. i hope this gives you a better handle on your finanical situation.</p>
<p>Since you don't want a large research university, consider USC.</p>
<p>wow, Sybbie really has some substantive info for you on this question of financial aide.
Shabby chic poor..sorry if I was not clear. Undergrad school is very leveling in my experience..everyone eating and sleeping in the same quality of circumstances regardless of how affluent the families, some heading off for fancy vacations and some returning to more humble circumstances for breaks. I had no idea that a handful of my friends were very wealthy because they were modest good people who never flaunted it. But parental support often ends after an undergrad degree is earned. In grad school days, some of us lived on beans and rice and in substandard apartments and floated much of our educations on our own loans and with second jobs. Grad school is a new chapter in life during which time a larger segment of your peers will "lose" parental funding entirely, ..everyone has a story. My spouse went to Vandy Law School but couldn't afford to pay for heat so never turned it on the whole year and wore a coat and hat when he studied and he and his roommate slept in sleeping bags. He had no car till he was 23 and rode a bike or the city bus to his part time job with the Public Defender. But he was very happy and fulfilled. Some kids will show up to grad school living in fancy condos purchased by parents with cars all paid for by parents and buying new books. Others (re me and my spouse) will be scrounging out a three or four year lifestyle while getting a PHD, med degree or law degree trying to buy used books, eating on cash made in part time jobs, riding public transportation and basically being financially independent and shabby chic poor. Living very simply and bare bones while in grad school is a common lifestyle that I only jokingly called "shabby chic." Misery loves company and this "misery" is often a Point of Pride later when you reap your rewards after preparing for your career... many of your cohorts will have the same financial strain and bad cars and apartments and you can laugh it off together.
My point is prepare yourself mentally for the reality that you will be floating some loans for grad school and needing a part time job to pay your expenses in all likelihood while leasing a variety of not luxurious apartments. Taking on a massive debt while in undergrad years is not a good plan. Grad school takes a lot of planning and sacrificing and "delayed gratification" thinking unless you have a trust fund or parents who are glad to pay your way.</p>
<p>Nice post Faline! </p>
<p>You brought back really wonderful memoties of our "poor" days when were first married - one in grad school, one with a lousy job. They were some of the most fun days of our lives. I guess there's a moral there somewhere!</p>
<p>The kind of student who can get into Amherst will get into the same top law, medical, or grad school --or one similar-- whether they apply from Amherst or from the State U. Taking out a loan for Amherst may make the four years more pleasant; I doubt it will have any impact on your future success. You already have the ticket in your hand, and the college you attend will not be mitigating.</p>
<p>If the money is comparable, factor in that Berkeley has a better overall reputation, and it is near gorgeous SF, versus USC located in a not-very-nice area of LA. You can make up for the size of the larger schools by being very proactive about attending office hours, taking as many small seminars as possible, and taking graduate courses in your major as early as possible - in other words, be a savvy consumer and look at the university as an open field of resources - bring your basket and pluck every berry off the bushes. </p>
<p>I sympathize with your financial plight. We were in a similar situation, with my son choosing a moderately expensive university and his non-custodial father refusing to pay - first, refusing to pay anything at all, and finally, after much persuasion, agreeing to pay less than 10% of the TCA. Luckily for my son, my parents have added some funds to my contributions and his college accounts. He will graduate debt free, although he does look upon his father's lack of generosity with disapprobation.</p>