Top LAC worth the money?

Parents Forum
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<p>Hello parents! I thought I'd post this in the parent forum because I think this question warrants adult advice.</p>

<p>I was just accepted early to Williams College, the #1 liberal arts college in the nation. I also expect to be accepted to other schools (Amherst, Dartmouth) of its caliber come april 1st. </p>

<p>My dillema is that my parents will not be contributing to my education and I apparently do not qualify to financial assistance (long story), so I will have to take out loans. Is 100k in loans for four years at an ivy or top LAC worth it?</p>

<p>Thanks for your time.</p>

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<p>I don't think so. I don't think that any young person should be shouldering $100K in debt -- I mean, with that kind of debt you can pretty much kiss the idea of grad school away. </p>

<p>Go online and find a loan payment calculator. Assume for a moment that interest rates will rise - so just for argument's sake, pretend that you will be paying off the loan at 7% interest (still below the cap on Sallie Mae loans) -- and look at what your monthly payment would be on $100K. Then look how much you would be paying in interest over the life of the loan, in addition to the principal. Do you want to be saddled with that much debt coming out of college? </p>

<p>I want to congratulate you on your acceptance to Williams -- but I hope that you also have applied to some good LAC's of somewhat lesser caliber which offer good merit aid. Find evil_robot's posts, and send him a PM if you can. He agonized last year as he turned down admission to an Ivy in favor of an excellent, but less prestigious, college that offered substantial merit aid where he is now thriving. </p>

<p>The bottom line is that if you come out of college in four years with $100K worth of debt, that debt is going to rule your life. It may turn out ok - you might get lucky, get a very high paying job that you love, and easily handle the debt -- but if not, then every decision you make will be governed in part by that debt, until it is substantially paid down.</p>

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<p>
[quote]

Is 100k in loans for four years at an ivy or top LAC worth it?

[/quote]

In a word, no.</p>

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<p>I was thinking of taking out a Stafford loan, which is capped at 3% interest and can be deferred for 25 years, not a typical loan. I have a safety school that I can fall back on and practically go to for free.</p>

5

<p>I think there are limits to the amount you can borrow on Stafford that would leave you far short of $100,000. I've also never heard it could be deferred for 25 years - is that a typo? I believe you can defer for 6 months once you've left school full time. Be sure to get the facts.</p>

6

<p>Stafford loans have a cap presently of 8.25 %</p>

<p>Since you do not qualify for a subsidized Stafford loan you will need to pay the interest that accrues while you are in school,however you can defer those payments until you leave school</p>

<p>
[quote]
All Stafford Loans are either subsidized (the government pays the interest while you're in school) or unsubsidized (you pay all the interest, although you can have the payments deferred until after graduation). To receive a subsidized Stafford Loan, you must be able to demonstrate financial need.</p>

<p>With the unsubsidized Stafford loan, you can defer the payments until after graduation by capitalizing the interest. This adds the interest payments to the loan balance, increasing the size and cost of the loan. All students, regardless of need, are eligible for the unsubsidized Stafford Loan.
Stafford Loans allow dependent undergraduates to borrow up to $2,625 their freshman year, $3,500 their sophomore year and $5,500 for each remaining year (independent students and students whose parents have been turned down for a PLUS loan can borrow an additional unsubsidized $4,000 the first two years and $5,000 the remaining years). Graduate students can borrow $18,500 per year, although only $8,500 of that is subsidized. There are also cumulative limits of $23,000 for an undergraduate education and a $65,500 combined limit for undergraduate and graduate. (For independent students and for students whose parents were denied a PLUS loan the cumulative limits are $46,000 and $138,500, respectively.)

[/quote]
</p>

<p>If your parents are not contributing at all to your education, no college accounts, no payment for room and board etc, your best bet IMO, is to attend an instate school, possibly in the honors program if you qualify.
While getting an education can be one of the best things you can do for yourself, saddling your self with ultimately may be over $100,000 in debt is one of the worst</p>

7

<p>In a word NO - not if you have to borrow every penny.
Go to the in-state school, work hard and you will be in a good position for graduate school.
Depending on what your major turns out to be, you might consider working toward emancipation from your parents and a transfer. But my guess is you will find that you will do well at the in-state school.</p>

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<p>Hi j2K5 ... congratulations on your Williams exceptence; that is quite an accomplishment! </p>

<p>Personally, I'm a pretty big advocate of going to a top tier school ... but that said I'd recommend avoiding a huge debt if possible. We do not know a lot of specifics but if you were accepted to Williams you likely will get merit aid offers from top 25 level schools which are also terrific schools ... if such a merit offer is in the works I would seriously consider one of these schools. There are lots of schools at which you can receive a great education and meet great classmates.</p>

<p>If the choice right now is Williams or a mediocre state school I'd suggest thinking about doing a gap year ... save some bucks and apply next year to a bunch of top schools that do provide merit aid. (There are bunch of threads on CC on merit aid and some TERRIFIC schools do provide merit aid).</p>

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<p>I second 3togo's suggestion. Read up Evil Robot's thread. The choice does not have to be between top LAC and a mediocre state school. It is possible to go to terrific schools that provide substantial merit money. If you did not apply to such a school this year, take a gap year, maybe work and save, and apply to a school that will provide merit money. Since you were accepted at Williams, you are very likely to be accepted elsewhere as well.</p>

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<p>Yes Marite and 3togo are right. My daughter was offered a 3/4 tuition merit scholarship to an excellent LAC, and we wouldn't qualify for aid. Her room and board and the remaining tuition would be 15-20K per year, that is a doable amount with a combination of work, loans, and any parental assistance. If your safety school does not fit this bill, then a gap year working hard would be the way to go. Think about it this way - what school wouldn't be impressed with a candidate who wanted a LAC type education badly enough to work 2 minimum wage jobs for a year to get it?</p>

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<p>No, I do not think it is worth it for any person to take out 100k in loans to attend college. </p>

<p>If you are good enough to get into Williams, you have the ability to get very generous merit aid from a top 25 LAC or national university. If you didn't apply this year so as to have that option, take a gap year and then apply, making sure that you apply to places like Grinnell, Davidson, Washington University, Vanderbilt and Emory, which all are top universities offering excellent merit aid to top applicants.</p>

<p>Make sure that you also apply to places that would serve as financial safeties for you, too. Those could be LACs and national universities that are less competitive than are the ones that I previously mentioned. Kenyon and Rhodes come to mind, and there are many others.</p>

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<p>No offense to the original poster, but I've seen a number of posts from students in this situation. The very top schools do not offer merit aid. Shouldn't this decision be made before applying? If you're parents can't or won't pay, and you don't qualify for need based aid, why apply? These schools make it clear that aid is based on need. One should think about whether it's wise to take out such heavy loans before applying.</p>

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<p>100k is conservative... more like 120-160k when all is said and done. I don't know how anyone can begin to make a dent in something like that while in their 20s...</p>

<p>People certainly have their reasons, but I don't understand parents (esp those who have the income) who don't want to contribute to their kids' college education in any way.</p>

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<p>I'm a Williams alum, got a GREAT education there, and I'd say no. (Four years at Williams will set you back $170k, not $100k, or have you already banked the $70k?) (Most top LACs DO offer merit aid - in adding together their ratings selectivity, academic quality, quality of life, and scholarships/financial aid, Princeton Review ranks Carleton, Pomona, Smith, Amherst, and Haverford the best undergraduate colleges in the country (including HYPS), and two of them offer merit aid, and if you go down the list just a little, many, many more do. But it is true, not many will come close to even $100k.)</p>

<p>Think of the freedom $100k could buy you after college!</p>

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<p>To the person who asked why I applied if I knew I'd have to pay on my own:</p>

<p>I sent an appeal to the financial aid office and they rejected it. My parents are divorced and my mother has full custody of me and I barely have a relationship with my father. With my mother's income, I qualify just fine, but my father's income (from which I have never gained anything from) cuts me out of eligibility. My father also refuses to pay for college or divulge his financials. I tried to get the non-custodial form waived but apparently he has to be missing or dead. It saddens me to see that schools don't understand that it is ultimately the student who suffers in the end.</p>

<p>To everyone else:</p>

<p>Goodbye Dream Schools....
Hello some place I could have worked half has hard and still gotten into...</p>

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<p>"It saddens me to see that schools don't understand that it is ultimately the student who suffers in the end."</p>

<p>The schools do this because there are many families that will lie about situations like your just so parents don't have to pay the money. Colleges used to be far more lenient in these situations until it became clear that the colleges were being scammed.</p>

<p>"Goodbye Dream Schools....
Hello some place I could have worked half has hard and still gotten into..."</p>

<p>Did you apply to any of the top 50 colleges that are known for giving excellent merit aid? If so, your hard work may have paid off by giving you a free ride at a place that still is very competitive. Without your hard work, you may have gotten an acceptance, but not major merit aid.</p>

<p>If you haven't already, check out evil robot's thread on how he turned down Yale for major merit aid at Vandy, and is very happy there as a freshman.</p>

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<p>j2k5:</p>

<p>congrats on your acceptances. they indicate you are well prepared for the next level. In answer to your question, is any undergrad school worth $100+ of debt...NO.</p>

<p>However, you might consider a new appeal, but after obtaining professional advice. There are financial conselors that specialize in college FinAid -- not scam artists -- but real CPA, financial planner types that undertand well FinAid forms and processes. They just might know ways to better explain and present your situation to the schools. It might be worth a telephone consult and, buying an hour or two of their time to draft a strong letter you and your mom could send.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

18

<p>
[quote]
It saddens me to see that schools don't understand that it is ultimately the student who suffers in the end.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The school is not causing your tale of woe. Your father is making a conscious decision that he does not beleive that he has a moral or social responsibility to contribute to your education by his taking a stance not to release his information, write the check or take out a loan . </p>

<p>Most of the need based scholarships at schools like Williams stems from the donations of its alumni who are parents that have children that may or may not attend Williams. So cutting to the chase, what it sounds like your father is saying that someone else's parents to take on his responsibility for providing for your education.</p>

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<p>J2k5, where else are you looking?
Definitely, do not go into this kind of debt.
Did you apply to UNC?</p>

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<p>J2k5; I'm with bluebayou. If you can't find a consultant, think about finding another advocate...or four or five..to plead your case to Williams. Banker who can verify your financial situation...lawyer...high school principal...accountant...father's lawyer who can verify that you are not a beneficiary (?).</p>

<p>My 4 year old S applied to an elite private elementry school. We didn't hear anything by mid-March while everyone else had acceptances. They hesitated because :
1) He didn't have any teacher recommendations (No pre-school. Shocking, huh?)
2) He hardly said a word in the interviews.
3) Might have (under) considered the development potential of two architects.</p>

<p>I conducted a nation-wide fax campaign by asking every family friend with a decent letterhead to send in a kind word about S. It worked! </p>

<p>S turned out to be wonderful, beloved grad. School lobbied me to be on board within a year of his arrival. </p>

<p>Persistance! Don't take no for an answer. Try the dean of Admissions if the Financial Aid office can't hear you. Be polite. Keep showing them the Williams love. Keep telling them that you are willing to do anything it takes--but that $100k is not possible; ie $50k is possible? $60K?</p>

<p>I can't believe they won't find a way to make this work. Don't give up!</p>

<p>Let us know how it goes.</p>