Is attending community college and transferring considered an acceptable option?

Parent Cafe
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<p>Several years ago, our local community college (which actually has multiple branches) hired someone from a California community college to be President. He has done so much to improve the college and really other community colleges in the state. He established an articulation agreement with most of the public 4 year schools in the state so that kids could start at CC and know what GPA, etc it would take to transfer into the state 4 year schools.</p>

<p>Within the last two years, our state has also started “Move on when Ready” which allows qualified high school juniors and seniors to enroll in community college full time.</p>

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<p>It doesn’t matter one whit whether other people “think” it’s an acceptable option. Lots of people around here have bought into the idea of starting at the community college and then transferring. But the young community college crowd is pretty transitory. Many are less academically motivated and less academically prepared than their counterparts at a regular state school, and that is one reason they are there. Many never even finish their two-year year degree, much less transfer. They often have to work to pay for their car payments and car insurance (they can’t live on campus after all), and eventually the time and necessary scheduling issues get the best of them.</p>

<p>But none of that might relate to a truly motivated and prepared student, who wants to attend largely for financial reasons. For someone like that, the question you need to ask is how many students successfully transfer to and ultimately graduate from a 4-year college? I would suggest going to the college you want to transfer to and ask some questions at the tutoring center, remedial center, etc. and find out if students from that community college are prepared and successful when they arrive. I have written this on other threads, but I’ll repeat it. I happen to know a person who works at the remedial center for our largest state university. In his experience, the community college students are terribly prepared and can’t just pick up as juniors. If they make it at all, they often need an extra year or more. That cuts into those savings pretty quick. In his opinion, they’d have been much better off starting at the 4-year school.</p>

<p>That said, it sounds like this is a very common route in other parts of the country. In those places, what I say might not apply at all. Do you know people from your high school who’ve successfully done what you want to do?</p>

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<p>It is very common in our area for kids to go to community college for two years and then transfer to the state university. Four years at the new tuition prices is not affordable to many Americans.</p>

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<p>My son had two apartment-mates his senior year in college who had spent two years at their local community college before transferring to the flagship state university. For them, the articulation arrangements worked well; they were well prepared for the upper-level university courses. But they were students who were academically qualified for the flagship university in the first place. They did the two-and-two arrangement to save money and to have the experience of two years in the lively environment of a large university with big-time sports. This was more appealing to them than four years at a directional state college.</p>

<p>I had a colleague at my last job whose oldest child attended our local CC and successfully transferred from there to pharmacy school. My colleague was so pleased with the CC that he recommended it to his youngest child, who had been thinking about attending the flagship state university. His rationale was not just that going to the CC saves money; it also helps students to avoid large lecture courses, which my colleague thought were not a good situation for his youngest. At the CC, general education courses tend to be taught in 30-student sections rather than 300-student lectures. </p>

<p>I have another friend whose son is a little behind most young people his age in terms of maturity and focus. He could have gone away to a directional state college, but he’s attending the local CC instead and doing reasonably well. The structure imposed by living with his family helps in his case, and his parents hope that by the time he is ready to transfer to a four-year school to finish his degree, he will have grown up a bit and be able to handle the independence.</p>

<p>On the other hand, CCs are full of students who will not even make it to an associate’s degree for reasons that have to do with employment. Many (perhaps most) CC students also have jobs in the community – usually part-time ones. Sometimes, they do well at their jobs and are offered full-time positions, which leads to them becoming part-time students. They may be promoted a step or two, which leads to more money and more responsibility and perhaps drifting out of college altogether. In the short-term, this looks like a good decision. But it will come back to haunt them later, because in most career paths, there is a point beyond which you cannot progress without a bachelor’s degree. And by the time that you get to that point and realize that you have a problem, you may have family and financial responsibilities that would make going back to school very difficult. </p>

<p>There are also students at a CC who don’t take college seriously at all. They didn’t do well in high school, and they are enrolled in the CC because it is the path of least resistance. They often don’t last long, either, and they don’t make good role models.</p>

<p>So there are positives and negatives. And a lot depends on the quality of your local CC.</p>

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<p>The CC route is frowned upon here for the better students. Most kids use the CC for vocational training but not at a stepping stone to get into a 4 year college. Most of the kids that are college bound have taken classes in high school that are at or above a CC level so there really isn’t a need to go that route. Most of the state schools take the CC credit transfers but it’s still not a seamless process and many kids end up going at least 3 years in the 4 year school as a result. Other areas it is very common. I think in another thread someone said that half of the college kids in California are in a cc.</p>

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<p>In our area quite a few families who are full pay have kids who got to a CC then transfer to a private U. Saves money& the diploma reads “private college”.</p>

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<p>Students in some families need to take this route for financial reasons. I think this might tend to happen most when the parents own a small business, ranch, or farm, making them asset-rich but not income-rich, and probably causing the FAFSA to come up with unrealistic EFC numbers.</p>

<p>Even if tuition is free, due to generous financial aid, living at home is probably cheaper than living in a dorm. </p>

<p>A sort of step-niece-in-law of mine, who was very well qualified academically, attended a CC for two years, and now is going to a good four-year school with the program she wants in her major. She will graduate in four years total, start of CC to end of university.</p>

<p>On the other hand, if there is a way to make a four-year university program work financially from the get-go, it would be preferable for most academically well qualified students. There would be other circumstances where the CC route would be advisable.</p>

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<p>Treated with disdain or scoffed at? Go over to the fin aid board. Community college is suggested all the time as a viable option. Yes, it comes up in the context of finance, but you’ve read several responses here that it’s about more than money.</p>

<p>My oldest d is taking summer courses at the cc this year. She changed majors and needs to prereq to stay in the right cohort. The class transfers. Both kids took/will take cc classes while in high school. Oldest had no trouble with transferring them to her school. Don’t expect youngest will either. </p>

<p>I know a PA who did her first two years at a cc. I know quite a few nurses who did the rn/adn at the cc or the hospital college and then got a BSN. The woman with whom I shared an office in graduate school went to beauty school before deciding she wanted to go to college. I know people who went only to community college and are doing way better than me financially. Disdain for people for attending cc’s is short sighted. </p>

<p>Personally, on College Confidential, I see more disdain for lower ranked schools than I do for community colleges.</p>

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<p>This is the route I went. It had its advantages and disadvantages. I saved money, maybe. I paid for my first two years of school out of pocket because it was cheap, but then was ineligible for the vast majority of the readily available scholarships out there-- there are not anywhere near as many for transfer students as there are for incoming freshmen, and many you only even qualify for as a freshman. So I paid for my last two years entirely with loans, because that was all I had to finish my degree with-- not sure if that was for the best or not under the circumstances. I was very bored those first two years and was not challenged at all academically, and the school was a horrendous social fit for a high-intellectual type. I had a lot of free time to explore ECs and build my resume, though, which was good for me at the time. I got to go to a much better 4 year than I would have otherwise (northern michigan university versus university of michigan). </p>

<p>I think the things I liked the least about it were the social and intellectual frustrations of being trapped in a school for two years that was way too easy for me, and the fact that going into the job market the only GPA anyone cared about was my 4 year school gpa, which was ONLY encompassing the hardest classes I ever took at college and didn’t include any of the intro classes I took my first two years-- and I was competing with kids who got to have their english 101, etc grades factored into their GPAs. That is hurting me substantially right now competitively, I went from a 3.8 to a 3.0. However, the fact that I went to community college at all doesn’t seem to be hurting my chances… if anything I think the interviewers I’ve talked to have respected me more because they think I must be fiscally responsible and a plan-ahead kind of person. I just wish my GPA wasn’t split between two schools.</p>

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<p>As the product of both Arizona and California CCs, I was amazed at the negativity about our local ‘tech’ school, as well as CCs in general when I moved to the Midwest. This was confirmed when a friend here from my area of California, who attended the same CC before graduating from a UC, stated she rarely admits she went to CC. She teaches at the local university, and most here don’t get how good the California CC system can be. In our day, many local students went to a CC, then transitioned to a UC. I went to a CSU, and was disappointed by the caliber of students compared to my CC, which had an amazing breadth of course offerings and excellent instruction. </p>

<p>There is a snob factor here in the Midwest about the tech school experience. My kids, my ex evidenced it in spades. The integration with the UW system, and guaranteed admission I believe is fairly recent. There is not the breadth of academic class work available that I remember from California. </p>

<p>But, there are wonderful instructors at our local tech school, who really care about teaching, and students can receive more personalized instruction than at the local big university, as there are no TAs, and there is not the assumption that you were a 4.0 student in HS. I’d recommend CC for any student who is hesitant about the rigor of some of the weed out classes at the big schools, chemistry and so on.</p>

<p>And I also think the economic and cultural diversity of CCs is a fascinating thing, and humbling to be exposed to. My Ds went to LAC, one of which was very diverse, one not. They had great education, amazing experiences, but their world view is a bit too much one of privilege, to my egalitarian taste anyhow.</p>

<p>emahee, yes, I also remember that feeling of being bored by the lack of academic excitement, in the few general ed CC classes when getting my nursing degree in AZ. In California, among transfer students, less so.</p>

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<p>In the real world, there is zero “disdain” for community colleges.</p>

<p>chaosakita, “college life” as defined by dorms, bars and frats is seriously overrated. Never did it, don’t miss it a bit. It’s right for some people, not for others.</p>

<p>College life defined by academics can be found at community colleges, perhaps better even than the flagships for lower-division students. I never had a class with more than 50 students at the CC I attended, and I knew every professor by name. No grad students or anonymous faces at the bottom of a 500-seat lecture hall. Your classmates are a diverse mix, like the real world: some older, some younger, ethnically and socially mixed. Not a room full of 19-year-olds with rich parents, a social situation you will never again encounter in life.</p>

<p>And to clarify an earlier point, yes, there are specific and distinct advantages to being a CC transfer student in California - the majority of UC transfer slots are reserved exclusively for CC students, under the Master Plan for Higher Education.</p>

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<p>Around here, suburb of a major city, we have a glut of PhDs and whatnot, and the teachers at the community colleges are quite good, actually. I have taken Italian at our closest one, recently, and enjoyed it quite a bit. There is a good articulation agreement, too, and the kids who have an AA or AS from the CC’s around here can, and do, go to the flagship and other directional U’s.</p>

<p>There’s actually a ranking of these CC’s somewhere. ours is quite high.</p>

<p>Either way, there’s no reason not to go to community college if it is the best option for you, for any reason at all.</p>

<p>I think it’s a really great option, one of the really great, functional elements of our higher educational system. JMO</p>

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<p>great lakes mom–I think you are correct about the perception of CC’s outside of CA, especially in the midwest. I think what you have to understand, however, is that at one time the CA CC system was free, or next to free so everyone went to CC first. That makes a big difference in the value one would get out of a CC. Up until the post-secondary options/dual enrollment you see offered in most states these days, CC were just that, community colleges/vo-tech schools and it was a place to get a “certificate” not a degree. It isn’t good or bad, just different and in an area of the country where most kids go on to college, 4 year college, they just don’t have the desire to get a “certificate”. It is a great option for those that want to go that route however. Also, with the generous aid seen in many, many schools in the midwest, it often isn’t much more expensive to go to a 4 year school than it would be to commute to a CC when all is said and done. Also, up until a couple years ago, most 4 year schools accepted very few CC credits so taking “gen ed’s” at a CC was a waste of time.</p>

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<p>California CCs are still next to free, effectively. There is a $42 per unit fee, and that’s it, for any California resident.</p>

<p>Not $12 a unit like when I graduated from Contra Costa College in 2007, but still ridiculously cheap.</p>

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<p>polarscribe-I disagree with “in the real world there is no disdain for CC”. In the real world around here it is looked down upon if you are going to a CC vs a 4 year school and you are put at a disadvantage coming out of college for jobs, especially in areas like nursing where you could get a 2 year or a 4 year degree. The nurses that go the 2 year route are rarely hired for the higher paying jobs in hospitals and clinics and are usually only offered jobs in nursing homes. It’s great if that is where you want to work but the salary difference between a nursing home nurse and a hospital nurse is quite different (double or more in a hospital). Certain fields it can be a huge hindrance if you start in a CC vs a 4 year school, med school, law school, etc. Sure, some kids can get into these after attending a CC but they are the exception rather than the rule. If you go to the med school boards on various sites, a common theme is rejections because of gen eds done at a CC.</p>

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<p>Steve has a point. Our local cc used to be just a tech school. In fact, when my brother went to school, he left the state so that he could get an associate’s in his program instead of just a certificate. (How about that, going out of state to a cc?)</p>

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<p>The CC’s closest to me have articulation agreements with many colleges, privates and publics. They clearly spells out what majors or courses will transfer and these colleges are quite popular. Here’s one of the CC’s info page: [Articulation</a> Agreements by Major](<a href=“http://www.northampton.edu/Student-Resources/Academic-Advising/Services-for-Current-Students/Articulation-Agreements/Articulation-Agreements-by-Major.htm]Articulation”>http://www.northampton.edu/Student-Resources/Academic-Advising/Services-for-Current-Students/Articulation-Agreements/Articulation-Agreements-by-Major.htm) You’ll note that they have an agreements with Lafayette, Lehigh and Dickinson, which are generally acknowledged to be very good Universities. This particular CC also has on campus housing.</p>

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<p>However, one thing that I have been warned about here on the forums is that financial aid is less likely and less generous for transfers than for freshmen. If you want to move from a CC to a top tier school, you may have to pay alot.</p>

<p>Oh wait, here’s a quote from above about that very issue! </p>

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<p>Steve, your argument is a strawman.</p>

<p>A nurse with a two-year degree has significantly less education than a nurse with a four-year degree. Stands to reason they would make less money, or be in different jobs.</p>

<p>That proves nothing about a nurse who started at a community college then transferred to a state flagship to end up with the exact same four-year nursing degree as a student who went there all four years.</p>

<p>Nobody is arguing that two years of education are equivalent to four.</p>

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<p>The idea that there are tons of scholarships “readily available” is a myth. Ask anyone on the Fin Aid board. If you’re good enough to get merit or to get into a full-need school, there’s money out there. The vast majority of students aren’t.</p>

<p>There is a general lack of money for transfer students, but that’s not really CC-specific. Goes for any and all transfers.</p>