Do you think a 5 on Calc B/C in junior year and a 33 on ACT are decent benchmarks for a woman interested in engineering? 4.0 on all math and science classes? (Taking Math II and Physics subject tests in Nov.) What if there are no ECs related to math or science? (Mostly varsity sports, girl scouts, peer counseling, tutoring, and so forth)
Student isn’t sure about engineering, but really enjoys math and physics.
Appreciate you all very much!
Sbjdorlo, depends on the college and the tier. At some, they expect math-sci ECs, including creative/problem-solving teamwork like robotics, if available, or academic competition, plus the rigor and grades, as well as scores. And it’s not just the ACT composite. They will look at the math and sci numbers. Plus a certain mindset. At the most competitive colleges, many kids will have done a bit more. Where I work, those ECs wouldn’t be enough. Lots of kids say, I love math and/or physics, but the adcoms look for what you did. And the understanding of what engineering is and does. Maybe that sounds tough, but it’s a tough major area.
OTOH, some will know schools who don’t expect this.
FWIW, MIT did a study that showed that women actually outperformed men with higher high school GPAs and standardized test scores, so I can’t begrudge them dipping a bit lower stat-wise. Not to mention that both males and females like MIT in part because it has less gender imbalance than some of the schools a little further down the totem pole.
@sbjdorlo, I think those scores show that the young woman is capable. I don’t know if the ECs matter. Those are decent ECs - and not every one is a contest person, or has opportunities to do research. I don’t think it hurt my non-math guy to do Science Olympiad even though it was clear he was not a STEM kid.
I know that Molliebatmit’s main high school EC was cheerleading. (Don’t know if she’s still a regular poster, but she was.)
It shouldn’t be, but it is. It is sexist, but so is American society.
This student didn’t have any STEM schools on her list, but it might be worth considering a few. She’s unsure about major, but thought engineering (no idea which area) sounded interesting. Math might be another good major. She’s just an overall strong student (school doesn’t rank, and doesn’t weight a lot of honors classes, so really hard to tell how she compares to others at her school except for the 4.0 u/w), taking honors pre-calc and A/B Calc in 10th, B/C Calc in 11th, and AP Stats in 12th.
Her test scores are relatively weak for top schools, though her scores are higher than average for school (1713 for SAT, and 26 for ACT).
Her scores:
SAT superscore: 2000 (680, 680, 640) Single sitting: 1980
ACT (1 time) 31 (science 35, math 33, English 32, writing 26, reading 23-she ran out of time)
APs: A/B 5, B/C 5, Spanish 4 (taking two APs this year)
I think her subject tests will be important.
She could do D3 volleyball, but isn’t recruited. Most of her activities are serving others: camp counselor, tennis instructor, girl scouts, soccer guide for special needs kids, tutor, soccer ref. Nothing national as far as I know.
It is sexist? Now that is a well thought out opinion. Some of us believe in basic civil rights for women and minorities in America
It is a hook and shows sexism in our society
What shouldn’t be?
If you look at the test scores of engineering school students at top schools, they are extremely high. Those schools with substantially higher percent admits for women are still rejecting most of the female applicants. Even with the higher rate of admissions for women, the scores of the OP’s student seem awfully low for a top engineering program. I don’t think anyone releases info on the stats of the applicants, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the women applying to the top programs have higher stats as a group than the men.
It may be at schools that review applications subjectively and by major.
But most schools are probably in the moderately selective range and do most or all admissions purely by stats, like the CSUs in California.
That would be a pretty good set of stats for any student looking to study engineering. It is mainly at the super-selective schools where the stats alone would not be enough.
Another source of information on the number and gender of students in engineering/computer science fields at all ABET accredited schools is found at http://profiles.asee.org/. It has the number and gender by year and it is very interesting. My D is considering CS and there definitely is an imbalance between the genders at most programs, if not all that I have looked at.
My perspective is a most-competitive school. The scores here do suggest she might be able to tackle engineering- but you can’t just say, it sounds interesting or I like math problems. This affects both genders.
OP needs suggestions of where this gal’s particular record would work in her favor. Not just because they accept a higher % of women into stem, but a kid without the math-sci extras. In this case, rather than look for a tip in engineering, she can probably get the same mileage with math or physics, if you find the right colleges.
I echo what others have said about admissions and, as a parent of a freshman who did know a lot about engineering, loves math and physics and had great grades from a good sci-tech high school, and very high SAT scores, but is still really sweating freshman year, I would like to add that this is not a path to be taken lightly.
If the student applies to STEM schools, I hope they are schools that will allow her to switch majors in case she finds out that majoring in engineering (or physics or math) is not what she wants.
@GTAustin your link is an amazing resource, both for the gender/ethnicity breakdown by major but also for the standardized test scores just for the School of Engineering. I can’t believe in all my internet scouring, I haven’t found this sooner. THANK YOU!!
Your welcome! I did not realize it had the standardized test scores for the School of Engineering which is very informative for acceptance and scholarship searches. Thanks for pointing that out.
@GTAustin, just echoing thanks. Now we can see what Princeton’s breakdown is. (No where near 50/50) Draw what conclusions you want, but my guess is that being female is less of a bump there than at other schools.
mathmom,
So to summarize for my little brain, when I see a stat that is closer to a 50% male and female balance than other schools, it tells me that the school is tryng to “correct” the natural imbalance, and therefore, that school is definitely giving a boost to female engineering applicants. Would that be a correct interpretation of the data?
Take a look at MIT’s data. What can we make of that? It seems obvious women get a huge boost…and yet, I know of more than a few amazing young ladies with high stats, particularly in math/science, that were not admitted. There is no “one size fits all” for women.
MIT has said that the pool of women applying is a self selected highly qualified one for the most part.
Also @changla , if it is sexist that STEM women get a tip in admissions to schools without a near 50/50 gender ratio, it’s also sexist that men get a bump at almost every other college for the same reason. The quest for gender balance is a business decision on the part of colleges - it turns out a lot of students don’t want to study at very lopsided schools, and that goes for both genders. The applicant pool shrinks when things get too far out of whack. I’ve read for non-tech schools, anything much past 60-40 female to male deters many students of both genders from applying. What’s American about it isn’t sexism, it’s capitalism. Colleges want good students and they’ll create the conditions that make good students want to attend.
Harvey Mudd is missing from the ASEE website, unfortunately.