@HCPP20 Thanks for posting the Kiplinger info. I had not seen that before.
I also came across this ranking of Catholic colleges that just came out last week from College Factual. It has Holy Cross at #2
http://www.collegefactual.com/rankings/religion/roman_catholic/
Holy Cross may be in the same category as BC, Bates, Clark, UVM, Stonehill and other small liberal arts and Jesuit colleges. Well below Georgetown.
The “College Factual” rankings of Top Roman Catholic Colleges (#24, above) lists Notre Dame as 1, followed by Holy Cross at 2, Georgetown at 3, Boston College at 4, Villanova at 5, etc.
http://www.collegefactual.com/rankings/religion/roman_catholic/
Whoops. I meant the survey at #40, above.
Not sure of the effect (if any) of this or any other ranking on Holy Cross’ present reputation, but earlier today Holy Cross tweeted out: “The College of the Holy Cross has been ranked No. 1 among baccalaureate institutions in the United States for long-term study abroad programs, according to a recent report released by the Institute of International Education.”
https://twitter.com/holy_cross?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
Actually Holy Cross is #2 not 3 ahead of Georgetown and after Notre Dame
You might be interested to know that the federal government has started a website aimed at giving potential students a sense of the value offered by each college at college scorecard. One of the metrics they measure is the average amount the graduates of various schools earn 10 years after graduation, by comparing the social security numbers on federal financial aid applications with those on federal tax returns filed 10 years later. By taking the element of self-reporting from the exercise a considerable degree of reliability is introduced. On the website one can filter schools via religious denomination. The most recent rankings for Catholic schools are as follows(excluding stand alone nursing schools):
- Georgetown, $ 84,000
- Villanova, $73,900
- Notre Dame, $70,100
- Fairfield, $68,500
- Santa Clara, $67,600
- Boston College, $66,700
- Holy Cross, $63,100
- Loyola MD, $63,000
- Manhattan, $61,700
- San Francisco, $60,300
- Stonehill, $58,500
- Saint Joseph's PA, $58,400
- Saint Mary's CA, $58,400
- Providence, $57,700
- Creighton, $57,100
- San Diego, $56,900
- Fordham, $56,200
Holy Cross is an undergraduate only LAC college. Are they comparing graduate degree earnings of the institutions ranked above HC to it’s undergraduate degree earnings? Many HC graduates pursue medical school or graduate degrees from the above mentioned Universities, by the way.
It’s interesting how many stats in discussion are posted by 1 post (ever) participants.
The 10 year compensation figures are always misleading, as they tend to penalize lower cost of living locales as well as schools that produce post graduate scholars (like doctors, who make up for the “missing” 10 year salary over the remainder of their earning lives).
As a 1980’s high school graduate, it’s interesting to consider the changes to Catholic College perceptions. I got to wondering how the child abuse scandals, reduction in parishes, and incredible growth in the number of “former” Catholics might be impacting these schools. All schools are “more competitive” now, but relatively speaking have some gained/lost respect as compared to others.
Here are the Catholic stats, http://cara.georgetown.edu/frequently-requested-church-statistics/
Summary: Priest and Nuns down 50%+, Lay people making up the difference
To the topic at hand, I think Holy Cross is considered a good school, but would suggest the only elites in the Catholic universe right now are Georgetown and Notre Dame.
@HCPP2020
Looking at that database, it looks like they are not using grad programs, but the data only includes students who received federal loans, so for G’town that is only 27% of grads while some schools the % was over 50%.
I am very surprised by the Fordham numbers, as they have a well regarded business program and a lot of kids end up working in higher paying NYC.
Can we all agree that rankings are not everything? Just the significant differences from one ranking to another should point out their limited value … if you look hard enough, you can find a ranking that tells you what you want to hear. That being said, I, too, have seen the decline of Holy Cross’ reputation vis a vis some other similar schools that appear to be more on the ascendancy. It’s a very fine regional school, with a strong reputation and alumni network in its geographical area. And it does provide an excellent education. The faculty are great and students get a lot of personal attention. It’s a very difficult school. But it simply can’t compete with ND, Georgetown, BC or even to some degree Villanova or Fordham when trying to compete on a national stage. It’s not because it’s an LAC … I’m only comparing undergrad to undergrad … the other schools are simply better known on a national level. If you want to get a good education and stay in the northeast, HC is a fine choice … but definitely not an elite one.
One real drawback is its location in Worcester. Not a gem of a city, though admittedly beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But between Holy Cross and Georgetown, it’s a no brainer. DC (on the hill) is a great place to study.
I think if you have to ask whether a school is elite, it isn’t. This discussion is like a scene from a PBS piece set in an Edwardian drawing room. The characters remain in their gowns and tails but the set has been removed around then, yet they chatter on earnestly about their importance as the world passes them by. I can’t say whether it’s more laughable or pathetic.
Prior to 1985, Holy Cross was mentioned in the same breath with Georgetown, as the top Jesuit school in the US. Since then, BC has ascended to the number 2 spot. . I think some of this has to do with location, but also with the Big East conference. I think you can correlate Holy Cross’ drop in prestige with the refusal to join the Big East in the late 70s/early 80s. The quality of the education at HC has remained top tier, but HC has become marginalized in terms of reputation and relevance. Villanova used to be a safety school for HC students…now they are peers in terms of selectivity and quality of applicants, with Nova on the upswing. Big time Div I sports definitely create some problems, but sports have clearly enhanced BC and Nova’s overall reputation and desirability over the last 30 years.
A LAC of less than 3000 students cannot compete (unless they spend EVEN more money on athletic scholarships than they already do) with the huge schools of Notre Dame, Georgetown, BC and Villanova. Focusing on competing for top players in D1 sports is what is bringing down HC academics. If they spent their money on academic merit scholarships instead of spending it all on athletic merit, they would have a much higher caliber of student. They should move to D3.
In the 80s and before, a middle class Catholic (or non-Catholic) family could full pay for their smart kid to go to HC without too much difficulty. They can’t now.
Here are 2 recent rankings of Catholic colleges. In both they place Holy Cross ahead of BC and Villanova
http://college.usatoday.com/2017/02/17/best-catholic-colleges/
https://www.niche.com/colleges/rankings/best-catholic-colleges/
@wisteria,
I am a big HC fan, but the people I encounter rarely choose HC over BC. Providence Coll is not much bigger than HC but they have managed to compete in the Big East in hoop and also have a strong hockey program. PC is not at the same level as HC academically, but the gap has closed significantly in the last 25 years. Successful sports teams attract applicants, enhance school spirit and add another dimension to the undergraduate experience.
@suzyQ7 I agree. HC should join NESCAC and be what it already is. An undergraduate New England liberal arts college.
@suzyQ7 you are on target. Ditching the 60 full cost (not full tuition, but full cost [!] ) football scholarships and matching women’s scholarships would certainly free up money to attract the brighter applicants back to HC (from Fordham, VU, BC, GU - a stretch and ND - a stretch) and start the long process of rebuilding the school’s academic reputation. They would not be the first catholic college not to play Division I football.
I don’t think there is any overlap at all with the applicant pool in the NESCAC so I am not sure that is the answer at all.
HC does have precise size/sports similarities with Colgate…but a very different academic reputation today.
While Holy Cross’s decline in national relevance makes sense to me, why is it no longer recognized as a top academic school? I am a rising sophomore at HC and from what I’ve seen, most students/faculty seem to consider HC and BC as peer schools - however nationally it seems to be different. Is there anything HC can do to restore its reputation as a top Catholic school on the national spectrum?