<p>Cornell is underrated.</p>
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<p>Agreed. Penn, Cornell, and Brown are very worried about how the changing financial aid policies will affect their ability to play with the big boys in the league – Harvard, Yale, and Princeton. I’m worried too.</p>
<p>Both the Daily Pennsylvanian and the Daily Sun have run feature-length articles on the issue this semester.</p>
<p>I also think it has the potential to spread beyond the Ivies. I can easily see Harvard competing with Stanford, Northwestern, and Duke for athletes in another ten years, especially if Harvard is planning on increasing the size of its undergraduate body.</p>
<p>But on the flip side of things, even when Princeton or Harvard has a banner year in hockey, they still have trouble getting undergraduates to the games.</p>
<p>I think Harvard being Harvard, they could even pick off a few athletes from top public colleges like U Virginia or U North Carolina. However, unlike you and probably most Ivy posters, I’m not sure that this is all bad. </p>
<p>Colleges like Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, Rice, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame are able to attract high quality athletes while not damaging their academic reps. I don’t see the two as mutually exclusive, but I understand how this would be a big and controversial cultural change for the Ivy colleges. </p>
<p>I happen to value the athletic life that a college can provide and think that these events can make for some wonderful and fun experiences, eg, your own experiences at Lynah Rink, and I think that Ivy administrators are thinking of ways to boost their social and athletic life for their students. Of course, the key is that such steps don’t damage the strong academic reputation of any of these colleges.</p>
<p>I think most Ivy and Patriot alums have a different take. We really buy into the student-athlete manta of the conferences and love to know that our athletes excel both in and out of the classroom. </p>
<p>Whenever there is an instance of a student not living up to their academic requirements, we expect them not to be able to play for the team anymore. This happened with a Dartmouth hockey player this year. But at the same time, there are some student athletes who really excel. A Princeton hockey player won a Rhodes this year, and a Cornell basketball player won an honorable mention for the Rhodes last year.</p>
<p>At times I think Cornell would be better served in the Big 10. It certainly feels much more like a Big 10 school than an elite place of privilege. But what catches me every time are the noble aspirations upon which the Ivy League was founded.</p>
<p>Every student athlete at an Ivy needs to have a minimum 171 AI. And the average athlete can be no more than one standard deviation below the entire class in terms of AI. No ifs ands or buts. I’m not certain I can say the same at Duke or Notre Dame.</p>
<p>Cayuga,
To your earlier comment about attendance at Princeton and Harvard hockey games, maybe you are right, but winning has an impact on a college campus for sports like hockey and basketball. For example, Cornell men’s basketball was drawing about 1000 fans early in the year, but as the year went on and students heard that they were pretty good, this expanded to 4000+. And Princeton used to draw pretty well for its basketball (as did U Penn) and I suspect that fans would return to both if and when those schools start winning again. </p>
<p>Football is a different story. Winning and losing means a lot less because the game is less important and really just serves as the campus and local vehicle for a party. I don’t know if you’ve ever been to a big-time NCAA game, but if you have, then you know that it is quite a bit different than what goes on in the Ivies and, to many people, a heckuva lot more fun. </p>
<p>As for the student-athlete model for the Ivies, that’s nice and I agree that the standard is higher than you’d find at the other mentioned elite privates. But I don’t think that the academic reputations of Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, Rice, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame have suffered any for this. In fact, I think most would see their athletic activities, even their losing football teams, as greatly additive to the energy and social vibe on their campuses. Also, I think that the academic level at which the Stanford, Duke et al student-athletes compete is probably higher than is generally acknowledged as their graduation rates aren’t hugely different from the general student bodies.</p>
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<p>Cornell has never had a tradition in basketball, and this year was an incredibly pleasant surprise. On the other hand, even when the hockey team was doing poorly through the 90s, the ‘Lynah Faithful’ were still packing in to see the hockey team play. Maybe it’s because there are less diversions in Ithaca, but if Penn and Princeton’s basketball following have fallen that much so quickly, maybe they don’t deserve the basketball reputations they deserve.</p>
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<p>I’ve been to some University of Michigan games. They are quite the spectacle, but I’m not certain how many Cornell students want to tailgate every other Saturday morning throughout the fall. Cornell can draw 15,000 for homecoming, but we haven’t had a winning season in ages. I’m certain if we were in the running for the Ivy Title the Trustee’s Cup match against Penn as the last game of the year would draw close to 20,000. </p>
<p>Lacrosse drew 10,000 + crowds for Princeton last year and Syracuse this year, with a healthy tailgating scene. It will be interesting to see what Brown draws this weekend.</p>
<p>Speaking of Lacrosse, CORNELL got KILLED by the PRINCETON TIGERS this Saturday, and I am the proud recipient of $200 due to a lovely wager with a Cornell athlete. Victory is mine!!! (whistles Cannon song all the way to the bank).</p>
<p>Who says Penn’s basketball attendance has fallen? Has that actually occurred? (hawkette must have some stats on that.)</p>
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HAHAHAHAHAHA, you Ivy Leagers are pathetic when it comes to understanding the world of college sports. First off buddy, the sports that matter are football and basketball and NOT lacrosse or hockey. This is because football and basketball are by far the major money-making machines in college sporting world and these are the sports that attract the most fans/school spirit since they are made so high-profile by the media. </p>
<p>Duke currently has the best lacrosse team in the nation but it’s not like it’s making the school gung-ho in celebration of the sport since this is expected. When it comes to Duke, excellence is expected in EVERY sport besides football. The bar is set so high for us. There are a bunch of lacrosse fans at Duke but frankly the student body much more important things to concern itself with, like a world-class basketball team. I must say though, for our lacrosse team to be as good as it is now after such a disastrous national scandal is nothing short of a miracle. Our athletes and the lax coach are simply tremendous. But at the end of the day, our lacrosse team probably deserves one small article on a slow sports newsday on ESPN and that’s about it. Guess why? Because it’s lacrosse. Like hockey, who the **** cares?</p>
<p>Ok, let’s about Duke basketball now since you dared to compare it to an Ivy League hockey team. <em>laughs hysterically</em> In the past several decades, Duke has won 3 national championships and been to 10 Final Fours. In recent times, Duke has been the most successful basketball franchise. ESPN covers more Duke games than the games played by any other teams. Duke Basketball is likened to the New York Yankees since they are the most hated college sports franchise in existence. Why are they hated? Because they’re good. If Duke doesn’t make it to the Sweet 16, it is considered a terrible year for Duke. Recenty, ESPN ran an article basically stating that the Duke Basketball dynasty must be on a decline since they haven’t made the Sweet 16 in the last 2 years. 2 YEARS. Can you even BEGIN to comprehend the silliness of that? However if you polled people across the contry, many would arrive at the sam conclusion. That’s how high-profile Duke Basketball is. The expectations are basically a national championship every year. That’s what Coach K expects and if you have been to the sports betting tables at Vegas at all over the past 2 decades, then you would see that is what the national population expects year after year as well. Duke Basketball is so god-like that our school has doesn’t even care that out lacrosse team is going to win the national championship this year. Why? Our basketball team didn’t make it to the Final Four.</p>
<p>Honestly, most Duke students would gladly trade a lacrosse championship to give our basketball team the opportunity to get to another round in the NCAA tournament, LET ALONE make it to the Final Four. That’s how much the general population cares about sports like lacrosse and hockey.</p>
<p>So about Cornell Hockey, what’s the name of that stadium they play in again and how come I and basically 99.9999% of the American population have never heard of it before? Oh yeah, because it doesn’t matter. Duke Basketball matters. Millions of viewers watch the Duke-UNC game worldwide. My uncle called me from Bangkok to congratulate Duke on our victory over UNC during our first meeting this year. I was like woah, how did you even know about the game was played today? Turns out, he was planning on going to a sports bar in Bangkok to watch the game and grab some drinks with a few buddies. Unfortunately, they were unable to enter the bar because it was PACKED TO CAPACITY that night and he said EVERY TV was showing the game that night. This is THAILAND we’re talking about here. I wasn’t even surprised. Why? Because Duke-UNC is that big of a rivalry and the game matters that much.</p>
<p>I would like to know more about these Cornell Hockey fans. Do they do something similar to tenting/K-Ville for the Cornell-Harvard game or whatever? Oh wait, there are no rivalries in hockey because no one besides rabid hockey fans at those schools give a ****. Also, it’s the Ivy League and people would rather ensure that they study and get a 97% instead of a 96% on their Biology exams rather than come out and support their athletes and sports franchises for a measly 2 hours or whatever.</p>
<p>Broski, have fun watching Cornell Hockey play in that special little tournament in the middle of the North Dakota wasteland with like 20 fellow spectators which no one cares about because even ESPN 600 won’t be showing it because there’s a more important senior citizens bowling tournament or a practice middle-school spelling bee that’s in more demand by the general population!! Bring me back some souveniers mmk?</p>
<p>^ either Duke’s a joke, or Duke’s decision to admit this crackpot is…</p>
<p>^LOL!! But, hey, at least his screen name justifies it…“evil asian dictator”</p>
<p>***, Duke somehow got involved in this discussion as well.</p>
<p>We might as well consolidate this thread with “Duke is overrated.”</p>
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<p>He wasn’t rejected. Why would he feel inferior? Wow, bringing out the textbook, I see. </p>
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Voila! This is the type of students who have 3.9+ at Cornell and have to resort to cursing and calling others d-bag to make a point. LOL.</p>
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That’s some profs’ POV. One of the guy who said it is a tenure prof and did research for Google. Why do CC people always assume academia always think highly of Cornell?<br>
Caltech is technically not an engineering school.</p>
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<p>As you might be able to tell, I wasn’t attempting to make any point at all. I was merely observing how big of an a-hole you are. Read carefully.</p>
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<p>My ACT and SAT scores are at 99 percentile of the nation. This indicates that there is a very strong likelihood that my scores are way better than yours. Besides, I attended a very competitive hs, not one of those hs that you attend.</p>
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<p>Wow, just wow. You must be utterly ■■■■■■■■. Rankings? You mentioned how Cal’s engineering trumps that of Cornell’s, by citing the engineering ranking. Then, just look at Cornell’s ranking. It is ranked 12th in the nation by US News, its law, mba, medicine, architecture, ph.d programs, etc all ranked within top 15-20. Still, you insist that Cornell students are ‘stupid’. They are, in fact, much brigher than you could ever hope to be with your 2 digit I.Q. Besides, if Cornell students are ‘stupid’, then what would other students from other lower ranked schools be called? You see now why I am saying that you are one of the biggest a-holes I ever saw here, right?</p>
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<p>What does this have anything to do with your argument that any engineering program that isn’t ranked top 3 is ‘blah’? You can’t even properly digest your own argument and lack the skill to digest any statistics, rankings, or arguments in context. Perhaps this may explain why you are acting the way you are, maybe you are just not so bright, as opposed to being an a-hole. Whatever the case, by calling Cornell stupid, a 12th ranked college, you are calling 99% of the colleges in the country ‘stupid’, ironically, thus calling your own future school, Cal, ‘stupid’ as well.</p>
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Mine shouldn’t be any less than yours, my dear. And what makes you think your hs is better? OMG, now you want to compare HS? Aren’t you obsessed! And please don’t twist my words, it was in the context of other ivy. Good grief. Get a life.</p>
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<p>Again, you are missing the point. If you truly attend a hs that is truly competitive and have a hs rank better than me, and if you truly scored 35 or 36 ACT (which I highly doubt given your nature of language and arguments), then more power to you. However, my point was that my scores are still pretty darn good and I am in no way in denial of that.</p>
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<p>So so so stupid. You are the one twisting your own words. If you truly meant to say that Cornell wasn’t as good as other ivies, you would have said something like “I believe that Cornell grads aren’t as gifted as other ivies, but they are still pretty smart.” But, instead, you chose to say that Cornell grads are “stupid” and said these follwoing comments yourself:</p>
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<p>Aside from these comments that you made, your highly offensive and rude comments/tone of your language, all of which are based on very ignorant assumptions, make it clear that you are disguising your language while trying to say that Cornell grads/students are ‘stupid’ yourself. Instead, you said that your family member believes that corell grads are stupid. But, you obviously also said it yourself that you agree with that statement. Oh, also, remember not to call Cornell grads stupid in real life bc people will get very offended since many of them, including your friends at Cal, would be attending schools that are ranked even lower than Cornell and you will be essentially calling them ‘stupider’. Peace.</p>
<p>i think you should relax patlee, you’re playing straight into middsmith’s hands</p>
<p>to be fair, middsmith didnt use any profanities or offensive remarks, all he wanted to say was that he was brought up to think that cornell’s overrated, everything else was in response to your overreacting</p>
<p>this is afterall a thread about whether cornell is overrated, everyone’s free to voice their opinions, or else whats the point of discussing this issue? while i dont have strong views about this issue, i would love to see ppl trying to prove with satistical and first-hand information cornell’s advantages rather than belittling its critics and resorting to ad hominem attacks</p>
<p>^ if he said that “I believe that Cornell is overrated”, I absolutely have no problem Just read the previous posts and look at the offensive nature of the language. He called Cornell grads “Stupid”. Also, he began launching ad hominem attacks towards me first by essentially calling me ‘stupid’ as well (this ■■■■■ poster diguises language, but look at the arrogant and d-bag like tone of his language!!!), and I tried my best to be nice until this ■■■■■ kept on going. I am not like this around here usually.</p>
<p>Also, just read thru the tread. He said that his family member chose not to go to Cornell bc Cornell people are ‘stupid’. Plus, he said that his family member ‘manages’ or ‘bosses’ the Cornell grads at his job, thinking that these Cornell grads at his job are “Stuipid.” Plus, he said the very first time “Cornell is the stupidest ivy”. IF this doesn’t qualify as being highly offensive, I don’t know what it is. It is completely different from saying “Cornell is overrated” or even saying “Cornell grads aren’t as smart as grads from other ivies.” This poster’s comments are, clearly, ad hominem attacks and I don’t feel very good at all when someone calls me stupid after I worked my butt off in hs to get a chance to study at this great institution that I attend with so much appreciation.</p>