<p>i'm planning on applying as a tentative engineering major in the fall of this year but i'm unsure about what kind of college atmosphere i desire. i'm not gonna bore u guys with stats but let's just say i will be competitive for top engineering schools like MIT, caltech, rice. my problem is that i really want that college atmosphere (school spirit, pep rally, diversity, rah-rah sports games, that type) and obviously those three elite colleges are lacking in that. at those schools there's also the nerd factor, i'm smart, but i like to pig out and watch football as much as every other state school student and i dont know if i'll find many people like that at those schools. however, i'm afraid that if i attend a school like a umich, ut(instate), gatech, or illinois that i will be giving up potential employment opportunities that the elite schools offer engineers (like i-banking, consulting). i'm not asking for someone to solve my problem, just wud like a little input.</p>
<p>You'd get plenty of great opportunities at a school like Michigan. </p>
<p>But if you're really that concerned about going to a "lesser" school, remember that college is what you make of it. Rice, for example, is known for beer and parties. MIT is located in Boston (i.e., biggest college town ever), so even if your classmates aren't into the same things you are, there are 400,000 other college students in the vicinity who probably are.</p>
<p>thanx world changer</p>
<p>A lot of that college atmosphere you mentioned (school spirit and such) at Rice is provided in some ways by the college system. While you will definitely find Rice students cheering on our various athletes, there is a lot of fun rivalry between the nine colleges. We have college pride as well as university pride, which allows for a lot of showing of spirit.</p>
<p>Stanford. </p>
<p>.</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>Agree on the Stanford. Duke also wouldn't be a bad option.</p>
<p>Also, some schools have a lot of spirit and one or two excellent sports teams to back it up. I'm thinking about Cornell's hockey team and the Lynah Faithful.</p>
<p>You might also want to consider UC Berkeley, which has a superb engineering program. Hard to get into that program from OOS however. Great school spirit.</p>
<p>Yesterday I created a thread on highly ranked engineering programs and highlighted their breadth of ranked programs. I listed 24 schools that I identified that have 5 or more engineering disciplines ranked by USNWR. Below is a subset of these schools that would also IMO provide a good social and athletic experience and could still keep you somewhat plugged into opportunities at top investment banks and consulting firms:</p>
<p>Stanford, 11 ranked programs, 4.73 was average rank of these programs
UC Berkeley, 11, 5.09
U Michigan, 11, 5.64
U Texas, 9, 10.00
Princeton,7, 11.29
Northwestern, 9, 12.78
Duke, 6, 16.33
Rice, 5, 16.40
UCLA, 6, 17.00
USC, 5, 19.80</p>
<p>Less prominent on Wall Street and in consulting firms
Ga Tech, 9, 5.33
U Illinois, 12, 5.58
Purdue, 9, 7.78
U Wisconsin, 9, 13.11
Penn State, 11, 13.45
U Florida, 5, 13.60
Texas A&M, 8, 13.63
Va Tech, 7, 14.71
U Washington, 6, 16.17</p>
<p>It's still a pretty lengthy list but these are all excellent engineering programs at schools that offer the complete undergraduate experience-academic, social, athletic. Here is the link to that full thread as well as the listings of the ranked programs in the twelve disciplines for which USWNR does rankings:</p>
<p>What about Cornell?</p>
<p>chocolatelover03 (love that name :) ),
If your post was directed to me, Cornell fans could certainly make a good argument for inclusion on my list above. Clearly, the school would be in a good position for Wall Street and consulting recruitment. My reason for not including it had to do with the non-academic aspects of social and athletic life.</p>
<p>Social life: I recently did a thread on the Social Life of the USNWR Top 20 and solicited votes/rankings. In that (obviously unscientific) "poll," Cornell ranked 11th. It received 5 Top 10 ranks, but none in the Top 5. By contrast, Princeton and Rice also got 5 Top 10 ranks, but got 2 and 3 Top 5 mentions. I'll concede that this is pretty flimsy, although I have my doubts about the breadth and variety of social alternatives in and around Ithaca. </p>
<p>Athletic Life: I think that this is a little less ambiguous. With the exception of Princeton, the other schools ALL have pretty strong athletic departments and field sports teams in prominent sports that are competitive on a national level. I don't think anyone will argue that any of the Ivies hosts a football environment even remotely like that at any of the other schools (Rice would be closest). If you care about lacrosse or some other minor sport, then perhaps the Ivy schools have appeal, but the athletic life for major sports at a Stanford/Michigan/Texas/etc. is COMPLETELY different than at Cornell.</p>
<p>thanx for the opinions guys-hawkette with ur research, i did see ur thread about engineering shools in the difft. disciplines</p>
<p>hawkette--I was suggesting Cornell to the OP, but thanks for the compliment about my username!</p>
<p>:>)</p>
<p>westsidewolf1989-
Spectator sports are not a good reason for choosing a college. An emphasis on spectator sports is a negative. Its unhealthy. Its a waste of time and money. Why spend time watching others get exercise and have fun? The obsession with intercollegiate athletics and professional sports is a big problem. Athletes don't merit the adulation they receive. Our values are cockeyed.</p>
<p>Go to the best engineering school you can get into.</p>
<p>Duke sounds like the perfect fit for you. ACC Basketball, Gorgeous Campus, Tons of School spirit, great engineering program, and great recruiting for I-Banking, etc. Come join me next year. :-)</p>
<p>xeneise, yeah i just visited duke last week, the campus is amazing and i really liked the balance b/t academics and fun, it seems like a really great school. good luck there next year</p>
<p>You don't need to go to a highly ranked engineering school if you want to go into banking, finance, and consulting. These elite jobs look at the overall school, not program ranks. Program rankings usually are only relevant if you want to actually work in manufacturing, civil engineering, as a software developer etc which fewer top students at Ivies and places like MIT tend to want to do.</p>
<p>My advice is to look at the top overall schools. They will all prep you for consulting/ banking. The most "fun" top schools IMO are:</p>
<p>Princeton
Stanford
Dartmouth
Duke
Penn
Northwestern
Brown</p>
<p>I feel like I should stand up for Cornell, where students thrive under a "work hard, party hard" mentality. Possibly the reason it didn't rank well under the social life ranks is because those rankings had to do both with the off-campus surroundings as well as the on-campus activities.</p>
<p>Ithaca isn't a sprawling metropolis, but because Cornell is so big, students create their own fun. They also have "Collegetown," which is crammed with students on weekends. And as I mentioned earlier, Cornellians are rabid about their hockey. Cornell might not be your first choice, but it does seem to satisfy a lot of what you are looking for.</p>
<p>Re grumpy's (aka collegehelp) comments above, I really want to offer a counter view. </p>
<p>Spectator sports are part of the popular culture for a large part of American society. Being a sports fan does NOT mean that one's values are out of whack. My husband is a major sports fan and his values are as solid as anyone I know. Most high school boys and increasing numbers of high school girls are sports fans and I certainly don't think that all of them have poor values. The truth is that sports are fun to watch and provide a tremendous amount of entertainment at the professional and the collegiate level. If you enjoy spectator sports, then I strongly encourage you to make that part of your college search process. </p>
<p>To put this in more practical terms, consider one of the settings into which you've indicated a job interest-Wall Street. Go on any trading floor in NYC or talk to any number of investment bankers or hedge fund or private equity guys and I bet you, dollars to doughnuts, that they have a good idea of what is going on with the sports teams in NYC, eg, my source quickly comments about the Yankees (it's not good, but it is improving), the Knicks (they'll screw up again in the upcoming draft), the Giants (how are they going to replace Ticky?), etc. These people like sports, professional sports in NYC are part of their common vernacular and that does not automatically reduce them to dim-witted fans with no personal values. </p>
<p>As an employer, I like people who have some idea of sports, are conversant about sports, and ideally have played sports at a respectable level. There are many analogies of sports to the work environment and many of the lessons learned in sporting arenas are directly transferable to the workplace (ability to work in teams, work ethic, the value of preparation, strategic thinking, ability to adjust to changing circumstances, ability to deal with pressure/deadlines, etc.). This is true for collegiate and professional sports and the lessons are there for you to learn whether you are a player or a spectator. </p>
<p>As an alumnus of a college, sports can be an enormous source of lifelong entertainment. Ask any alumnus of U Florida how he/she feels after seeing the school win football and basketball. Ask any Rice alum about their baseball team. Ask a Duke grad about their basketball team. Heck, ask any Cornell alum about their lacrosse team. All of the above are likely very proud of their team, their alma mater and this provides a continuing connection to the institution. To me, that is a good thing and, if that appeals to you, should be a factor as you decide among various colleges.</p>
<p>Spectator sports are deeply ingrained in our culture. They are so commonplace that people don't question their prominence in our culture. Watching a football game on a saturday afternoon seems pretty harmless but there are larger issues. I think we should be concerned about the larger issues.</p>
<p>I'm not the only person who sees the insidious nature of spectator sports. College presidents and faculty have concerns. There is an organization of faculty and college administrators called the Drake Group whose purpose is to protect academic integrity against commercialized intercollegiate athletics. </p>
<p>Here is a quote from a member:
"Like my colleagues in The Drake Group (TDG), I love sports. However, all of us are concerned about the exploitation of big-time (NCAA Div I-A) college sports and athletes by the overly commercialized college-sports entertainment industry to further its financial interests.
Also, we are concerned about the negative impact college sports have on America’s system of higher education and on the collective physical and intellectual well being of Americans. Furthermore, as discussed in "Sports in America 2005: Facing Up to Global Realities" [1], we are concerned about the negative impact college sports have on America’s prospects as a leader in the 21st century’s global economy."</p>
<p><a href="http://www.thedrakegroup.org/index.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.thedrakegroup.org/index.html</a></p>
<p>There was a discussion about this on PBS last month and a series of articles in the Chronicle of Higher Ed over the past few years. </p>
<p>Reasons against spectator sports</p>
<p>Better to participate in activities, not enjoy vicariously
Tax dollars wasted
Tuition dollars misspent
Distracts from educational mission
Promotes value of passive activities
Abuses of power
Compromise admissions standards
Waste scholarship dollars
Compromise academic standards
Some athletes use performance enhancing drugs
Some athletes are paid a stipend
There is no evidence that sports increases freshman admissions or alumni donations
Schools are locked into a fierce competition
Lack of relevance to education
Spectators are manipulated by the sports industry and sports media
Value should be placed on learning and intellectual success, not sports
There are more desireable role models and heroes than athletes
Young people aspire to unattainable athletic careers
It is wrong to associate the academic quality of a school with the prowess of its intercollegiate athletics</p>
<p>what you described sounds a lot like rice's atmosphere, you should check it out, its the right balance. Check out:
<a href="http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/profiles/generalinfo.asp?listing=1023709<ID=1%5B/url%5D">http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/profiles/generalinfo.asp?listing=1023709<ID=1</a></p>
<p>and click on students say, it sort of tells you the campus life how students are and the academics (you'll probably have to create an account but thats takes like a minute) Good luck!</p>