“Also, unless you have a strong hook, I would not waste your early leverage on the SCEA schools (Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, Yale) unless you feel overwhelmingly and absolutely compelled to do so.”
I agree with this. For a very strong candidate with great gpa, high rigor, outstanding test scores and good but not national championship level ECs, with no clear hook, you have a much better chance trying for Penn, Columbia, Brown, Cornell, Northwestern, or Duke. Make sure that your essay demonstrates that you know the school well, and communicates why you would like to attend there. If you do that, you have a good chance. IMHO
“Death trap” is kind of silly, but I do think there is one aspect of ED that I think creates a big misunderstanding in a lot of people’s minds. People get very excited about the higher ED acceptance rates and they think it is some way to massively boost their chances. I think for the most part this is a bit foolish because the evidence is that at most schools the ED pool is much more qualified than the RD pool (many more hooked candidates), and that is behind most (if not all) of the higher acceptance rates. For the unhooked, untagged, somewhat marginally academically qualified candidate, ED probably provides a slight boost to their chances, more akin to the boost you get from doing campus visits and otherwise expressing strong interest in the school.
For the top LAC’s and Ivy League schools, I don’t think the candidate you describe get’s in ED or otherwise.
I think the ED boost goes to the very well qualified candidate that might have otherwise gotten obscured in the tenfold slew of RD applications - which includes lots and lots of those highly qualified HYP and Stanford early applicants.
@arwarw gives great advice. Something I did not know a year ago. It is also the reason you need to set up your canidacy early.
However sometimes it does not work out. I have a friend who wanted a school that was very competitive but was a target for him (as much as any sub 20 can be for anyone). He flew there, interviewed, loved it, was an excellent student. I thought he was wasting his ED on that school. He ended up deferred and rejected and got an Ivy and a direct competitor of the first school on RD, he is going to the compeititor.
I do think that if you just cannot commit and are on the level Arw describes, then SCEA or EA at MIT might be your second best bet. I looked through one of those acceptance threads recently to prove a point (about something different) and the stats were much more reasonable than on the RD round. I would look at which people from your school are more often accepted at (would do the same on ED, if no one gets into Brown, do not waste your ED). Unless you are very different from prior students
ED is a signal to the school that u are a definite yield. That puts the applicant in a more favorable position for the school to minimize its admit rate.
@DrGoogle That was essentially the point of the title, I just don’t want to be “wasting” my SCEA or ED on a school that will be full legacies, athletes, etc.
@NickFlynn, keep in mind that schools use ED to manage/boost admissions yield, so there’s probably added nuance at the institutions aspiring to elite status. For example, over the past five years, the percentage of enrolled students coming from ED at Bates has grown from 46% to 55%, with a corrresponding boost in yield from 36% to 41%. At Vanderbilt, 41%->51% and 39%->46%. At Northwestern, 48%-> 54% and 38%->49%. At Northwestern, the change in ED admits during this period amounts to nearly 300 more students. Are they all legacies and athletes or those with hooks? Seems to me that a school’s quest for higher yield/prestige does create advantage for competitive ED applicants.
@cbound88 I am not saying that ED doesn’t provide a boost to any applicant. I just think in general, the higher rate makes everyone think that applying ED doubles or triples their acceptance rate, when in reality a lot of the higher acceptance rate is because of the quality of the pool relative to the RD pool. I do think everyone in ED does get a boost, but it is much smaller than many people think, especially when you are long shot applicant.
@Dylan197, our daughter attends Northwestern. She applied ED with no hooks, but she was well-rounded, very competitive academically and sure that she would attend if accepted. Can’t say for certain, but I suspect she benefitted from the dynamic I described in the previous post. That year, ED admits accounted for 45% of the class at Northwestern, with an ED admit rate of 34% vs 13% RD. Were her odds truly 160% better? To @NickFlynn’s point, probably not, but were they better? Definitely, since she was a competitive applicant willing to commit and that meant “100% yield” for Northwestern.
Put another way, her choice was either to the old fashioned way for a 1 in 8 chance of getting in, or do the same work 60 days earlier for a non-trivial bump in odds. Because she was competitive and strongly committed, the latter was a no brainer.
Good luck…and be careful not to let the tail wag the dog. Focus first on finding/prioritizing great fit econ schools, then figure out if early admission is appropriate based on just how competitive and committed an applicant you are.
Agreed in most cases. It is likely that the ED boost is greater if the college attaches greater importance to “level of applicant’s interest”, since ED is the highest possible expression of interest there is. However, if the college is a reach for the applicant, “level of applicant’s interest” is likely less important, since yield is higher among students for whom the college is a reach.
Beware, though, if a previous student at your high school has backed out of an ED agreement. Some colleges supposedly punish future students at the high school by putting the high school on an auto-reject list (even for non-ED applications).
The full Harvard story is that early is 21 percent, regular is 3 percent and overall is 6 percent. Someone gets into Harvard RD but only one in thirty. Your financial situation is an important consideration. If you qualify for significant financial aid or if you can pay in full with no issues, than by all means apply early
For the kids at the top but not intel winners, @Much2learn spells out the best stradegy. However, most people who are in range and do not have a clear prefernce are tempted to roll the dice avoid ED and see where they land. I did that. My siblings will be applying ED at whatever level is appropriate for them. I had another friend who was thinking of ED, but his dad would not let him because he wanted to see his options (top of class and 34) even though money was not a big deal to them, otherwise similar stats to mine. He is going to our state school, barely got in anywhere not sure why, we are not close.
To the first time families ED appears to be a way to apply to your very high reach. For the top this would be the SCEA schools instead because they think they can get into the non HYPS RD. It should not be viewed this way unless you really are a top candidate and cannot imagine not going to a HYPSM (see @puzzled123 who gave a great definition in another thread). It is a way to increase the odds of being accepted to a high match, low to mid reach not the quest for the impossible (although it does happen but usually not).
First timers (those who have not seen the process directly, my siblings will not be first timers because they saw how torturous it was) do not realize how many similar applicants with top scores the top 20 schools get RD.
unless if you do not get in you will go to a state school because you can still do EA to states for MOST ED/SCEA EA schools.
I would be cautious about thinking ED gives one a boost by looking at ED rates. Penn very clearly states that the ONLY time it will consider legacy admits is during ED. They are also very clear they admit over 40% of their legacy applicants. (http://thepenngazette.com/five-is-four-cs-%E2%80%A8and-the-right-road-to-college/ - this is actually a very good general article for college applicants and their parents. I found it very helpful beyond the legacy issue)
Is there someplace that quantifies the ED rate? Does the Common Data Set. Something that says if you are not hooked, here is how many we take ED. Given that so many schools took 35-50% of their class ED this year, how many of those were not hooked? So if 1000 spots were given out ED, how many were unhooked? Then figure that against the applicantion number ED rate (again removing anyone hooked) and you have the real unhooked ED rate. Still much better than the unhooked RD rate I would bet.
@Wje9164be Do students with lower socioeconomic standings have a better chance of admission than people of higher middle class or wealthy students due to the Colleges wanting more diversity throughout campus?
@ucbalumnus The problem is that most, if not all, of these schools are in fact reaches for all students that don’t have a significant hook. And how would I find out if this instance has happened before at my school?
Yes, most top colleges will consider socioeconomic factors. In part to achieve diversity and in part to level the playing field for students who don’t have strong college guidance, private tutoring or all of the other advantages wealth brings. I think certain types of colleges place a greater emphasis on diversity than others -Amherst for example or really any of the top LACs and The Ivy League schools