<p>I think another factor affecting graduation rates is the higher and/or more inflexible standards that we have.</p>
<p>More parental iinvolvement is NOT the answer.</p>
<p>The parents/grandparents that would help are already involved.</p>
<p>Dragging disinterested parties into the process will only make more problems.</p>
<p>Frequently there is not that much actual respect or regard by the students for the parents .</p>
<p>Public charter and magnet schools are the best and sometimes only hope for disadvantaged youth. Give them a chance. Let them prove themselves. If they won’t or even can’t, cut them loose without mercy.</p>
<p>Educational triage, save as many as resources permit, abandon the rest.</p>
<p>The money that could be spent to train a kid with a good attitude to be a competant auto mechanic or machinest is being wasted on those who do not care.</p>
<p>
And unfortunately this is very much a class issue. I remember the first few times I attended school-parent council meetings at our son’s public elementary school here in Boston, I was disheartened at the low attendance. I remember asking one of the teachers why there weren’t more parents there, and she said, “they care, but a lot of them are single mothers with two jobs.” Not a problem the suburbs generally run into.</p>
<p>There is a huge difference between public magnets, private schools and public schools. The magnets and privates are selecting the students and therefore have the cream of the crop vs. the publics that must take all. The kids who are serious about school and getting an education, suffer in a regular public school setting, because the school must teach to the masses. It is sad to see how many very bright kids in the public school system are not having their needs met because of other less motivated weak skilled kids. I am all in favor of schools going back to the way they were years ago when kids were tracked early on and placed in the appropriate class. There is no way that a teacher could teach to a full class with kids of all different levels, and not teach to those that lie somewhere in the middle. That leaves the kids at the lower end at a disadvantage, and those who are brighter at an even bigger disadvantage. The current trend in public education has many flaws…I just don’t know how this system can work more effectively without the burden on the taxpayers.</p>
<p>The kids whose parents show up at school meetings would do well because of their home environment even if parents were banned from the school grounds.</p>
<p>Parental involvement is a characteristic of the set best described as “people who care about their kids education”. Forcing people who are not a member of this set into meetings with teachers will annoy them and waste the teachers time.</p>
<p>“One size fits all” is the economical way to approach education, with different classes and even schools for different “sizes”.</p>
<p>The idea that we have resources to “tailor” a curriculum to each individual student is wrong. Small classes cost MONEY. While we are tailoring to pander to the few, the many are being neglected.</p>
<p>Quit living in the “illusion of affuuence”. Any more MONEY spent on education by the government is borrowed or “printed”, a form of borrowing.</p>
<p>Really? How many times do you hear about teachers complaining about parents being too involved in their student’s academic lives vs. parents who they can’t seem to get interested. </p>
<p>I’m not talking simple involvement AT the school rather I’m talking about parents taking an active and responsible interest in making sure that their kids education is a priority. As it was stated earlier ‘you can lead a horse to water…’</p>
<p>And yes, there is a class/socio-economic aspect to this. Hard for the parents to be involved when they are MIA, in jail or were shot dead. Again, the parents actions were responsible for hindering their kids education. </p>
<p>The government can only do so much. The schools can only do so much. At some point it’s up to the parents to ensure their kids have an education.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This is not the answer because as Nightchef wrote, you must educate every student that comes across your doorway.</p>
<p>If a kid just gets off the plane and doesn’t speak a word of english, you have to find a way to educate that student if he has been assigned to your schoo (I work at one of the few schools in the city that has a full bilingual program) A student who is part of the cohort comes in does not speak, read or write a word of english can be expempt from the Global and science regents if coming to school in NYS for the first time in 12th grade. however, they must still pass the english regents in order to graduate. They can not pass the regents and the graduation rate is already pulled down. Tell me where does this happens in Charter/parochial schools?</p>
<p>If you have a 18 year old student that is part of the senior class cohort, but has only 1 credit and that student has been safety transferred into your school. Guess, what that student is yours! Your graduation date is automatically going down because the kid cannot graduate in june with his/her classmates. Please tell me when was the last time a parochial/private or charter school took a student that was overaged and under credited? it is not going to happen.</p>
<p>If your child has an IEP and needs services then that school better move heaven and earth to make sure the student get the services s/he needs or start documenting so that the student can get a Nckerson letter of a Carter school reimbursement from the DOE for the child to get services at a private school. Again these things are not going to happen at Charter/parochial schools. </p>
<p>With the end of this summer session in NYC, there were just as many students enrolled for regents prep from Charter/parochial schools as there were from public school (yes, I know first hand because I registered them for the exams).</p>
<p>Small classes cost MONEY. While we are tailoring to pander to the few, the many are being neglected.</p>
<p>Some things cost more than money- do you prefer to pay for education today or prisons tomorrow?
[We</a> Can Pay for Education Today - Or Prisons Tomorrow](<a href=“HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost”>We Can Pay for Education Today - Or Prisons Tomorrow | HuffPost Latest News)</p>
<p>I have been uber involved with the schools in our city- I would say parent involvement or the lack is a " cultural" issue.</p>
<p>We need socio-economic diversity in the schools . When one school has 80% FRL and another has 10%, even if you gave the first school double the money of the 2nd, it would take a miracle for the students to do as well.</p>
<p>With diversity, you have modeling of " education as a value", not something that is always a priority in other communities. As night chef pointed out, it is pretty hard to make parent meetings when you are working two jobs and don’t have a car.</p>
<p>Even if a childs own particular parent is not able to volunteer in the school, he/she will see * other parents* involved and it makes a big difference to them to see that.
They figure teachers ’ have to be there", but when someone volunteers their time, the kids notice.</p>
<p>This modeling also helps the parents-
some minority communities don’t expect to have to volunteer in the schools. They may consider what happens at school to be the schools job- this isn’t necessarily an economic issue as many of these families ironically are college educated and middle class. However, peer pressure has gotten more of them to participate, you just have to go about it a little differently.</p>
<p>Flyers and phone calls don’t help so much.
Host events that provide dinner & child care, allow time afterwards for socializing and instead of presenting roles that need to be filled, ask more questions about where they would like to be involved.</p>
<p>Having alumna who have gone on to be successful( whatever that means) come back and be involved helps not only the kids, but the parents, because some parents frankly do not see that the time spent in school as worth it. They don’t see further education as an option for their kids or their own peers may be struggling with that issue.</p>
<p>At some point we have to admit we don’t have the resources to pander to the disinterested and put our money where it will do the most good.</p>
<p>What are the proposed mechanisms and processes for “increasing parental involvment”?</p>
<p>Force socioeconomic diversity and the “involved” parents will move heavan and earth to get their kids into another school and perhaps abandon public education totally.</p>
<p>Socioeconomic diversity destroys schools. Students are subjected to peer pressure from older, less bright classmates. Sports participation become impossible due to age and maturity differences. Less than gifted students retaliate against smart asses and teach bright students not to participate because of “peer” reprisal.</p>
<p>BigG, at what age are you prepared to abandon a child who shows no interest in his education? 6? 10? 14? </p>
<p>Isn’t the whole legal structure of some people being “minors” dependent on the idea that youngsters aren’t qualified to make decisions for themselves, and they need (and are entitled to) grownups who decide on their behalf?</p>
<p>What are the costs to society of encouraging the uninterested kid to spend his time on the street instead of in a classroom?</p>
<p>“At some point we have to admit we don’t have the resources to pander to the disinterested and put our money where it will do the most good.”</p>
<ul>
<li>We continue putting money where money make no difference. OK, something obviously does not work, way behind lots of countires in a world, but we are putting more $$ into it not because $$ will improve situation (it has not, and it will not), but because one group (unions) demands more $$ without increased services, but actually diminishing them from year to year. Call it whatever, I have my label for it and I am sticking to it. This label was used in regard to other countries, might as well face up here in the USA. The only diff., is that process in other places was violent, here it is happenning deliberately in steps under government watch. And it will be magnificent failure as it began already. Some finally see it, others will be amazed when they finally remove their blindfolds.
Have fun dreaming on…</li>
</ul>
<p>We, as a society, determined we could afford to educate our population up to 12th grade for free, and no more. Maybe at some point we will say it´s up to college or to middle school. It´s all matter of affordability and what´s important to the society. There is no God given right that we are entitled to have a free education, social security, food stamps…</p>
<p>Through out history education has always been a privilege, not a right.</p>
<p>I am unsure of the exact age at which to “cut a child loose”. If the child is adversely effecting the learning environment for others, sooner rather than later. If the child sits in their seat asleep most of the time but is not a hinderance to other students, then later.</p>
<p>Probably at the 5th to 6th grade level. Cannot pass boards, no college prep middle school.</p>
<p>Education needs to be stratified by ability level for efficiency and international competitiveness. We are doing a poor job because of poor resource management.</p>
<p>There are individual differences and late bloomers. Can the whole system be funded to take care of the exceptions?</p>
<p>I do not think so. Any increase in spending has to come from borrowed money. The governments; federal, state and local, are “tapped out”.</p>
<p>The reality is that we cannot afford to continue as we have in the past.</p>
<p>The most economical thing to do is cow the troublemakers into submission, by physical force if necessary. Since our society is unwilling to do this. We are probably going to lose out to other more disciplined societies.</p>
<p>I am actually sorry the world is that way. I would like to see each human being achieve their full potential. But that costs money we do not have.</p>
<p>I attended public schools and learned to keep my head down and my mouth shut until I large enough to defend myself.<br>
Frankly I resent having to pay for private school for my bright, well behaved kids because public schools are incompetant jungles.</p>
<p>You know how I will vote on a “bond issue”.</p>
<p>Vouchers are a possiblity. Let poor people with bright kids “vote with their feet”.</p>
<p>^Hanna…I think another question is, At what age do you forbid children to disrupt the learning of others? Something needs to be done to allow capable children to work in an environment that fosters learning.</p>
<p>"What do parochial, charter and private schools have in common? Troublemakers can be expelled.</p>
<p>These institutions “work” because they can “cut the cancer out”.</p>
<p>I would argue that the most important factor these schools have in common is that the parents of students in these schools care enough about their child’s education that they make an effort to find a school that is the best fit for their child, and in most cases provide transportation for them, rather than just send them to the convenient neighborhood school. (I’m not saying sending your child to a neighborhood school is a bad choice–it may be an excellent choice–just saying that choosing a different school demonstrates care, concern, and engagement on the part of the parents.)</p>
<p>In the state of Arizona at least, charter schools are publicly funded and I believe it is as difficult for charter schools to expel children as it is for regular public schools.</p>
<p>To answer the original question, I believe access to quality K-12 education in the U.S. is a right. At the same time, students should understand that it is a privilege that many in the world do not have. </p>
<p>“Troublemakers” should be educated in an appropriate alternate setting which will give them the best opportunity to succeed and where they will not interfere with the education of others. As a former “alternative” high school teacher, I do believe that most “troublemakers” come from troubled families and have little or no support. The least this country can do is offer them a decent education and a shot at a decent life. The cost of failing in this respect is tremendous. I think it’s important to remember this when discussing the cost of education.</p>
<p>One size does not fit all when it comes to education, and for that reason particularly I believe that charter, magnet, and private schools provide a great service.</p>
<p>Sports participation become impossible due to age and maturity differences.</p>
<p>How is that related to socio economics?</p>
<p>Students are subjected to peer pressure from older, less bright classmates</p>
<p>I am not sure what you are talking about- students are roughly the same age- although I do like mixed grade levels in younger grades and when my daughter was in middle school, she attended a K-12 school where electives were offered at the 7-12 level.</p>
<p>Less than gifted students retaliate against smart asses and teach bright students not to participate because of “peer” reprisal.</p>
<p>My daughters inner city high school, is much more socioeconomically diverse than some of the other schools in the region- it has had a " magnet program" of attracting the top students from the districts gifted middle school program ( there is no high school gifted program although many schools offer AP or IB classes).</p>
<p>The programs that attracts the highly capable students and which the parents/teachers support are open to all. My daughter was taking remedial course work at the same time she was taking honors classes ( and later AP), several of her classmates were also both in remedial and honors classes. She graduated with honors having successfuly completed 4 AP classes.</p>
<p>Ive volunteered in her classrooms and in other classrooms and as a tutor for ESL students, it makes a difference for students and teachers when their work is validated by community interest and involvement.</p>
<p>The issue goes beyond just trouble makers. There are those students who cause enough of a distraction just to prevent students from getting all they could from a classroom environment.</p>
<p>If the lecture format isn’t working, there are other ways to teach.</p>
<p>LOL @ Hanna. </p>
<p>Seriously,what are we to do with the ‘troublemakers’ at the schools. Force them to wear a scarlett “T” or escort them away from other children like we used to do the special needs kids?</p>
<p>Face it, in the world our kids will be exposed to people who will, if allowed, have a negative impact on their education, their jobs, their marriages, etc. What kind of world are we showing our kids if we insulate them from any obstacles to ensure their success? And good luck with that…</p>
<p>This thread has a “futuristic” tone to it. Um, well it IS happening right now and already a well established trend. Wishing it was not so does not change the fact that the problem is almost always in the home, and yes the kids are a product of their HOME environment. All the money dedicated to schools serving this segment of society will not and has not made any impact on the performance of these schools. The problem is the parents and the home life provided to their children. Certainly it is agreed in this country, gov’t agencies do not have a right to interfere in how citizens provides for their children or how they raise them- morals, values and everything else is instilled by the parents. This is the right of every citizen, as long as all behavior is within legal bounds.</p>
<p>When do the rights of these families take away the rights of other families? Always a debatable question, but in public school it is when the one child is so disruptive, unprepared and academically behind the class he/she is placed in- then game over, the public school system should not be available to that child until that child has demonstrated they, as a single student, are not holding back 25-35 students in the same class. We are seeing the “cost to society” right now- whole classrooms of kids are failing because of the few troublemakers (who are distributed in each class of each grade in every public school) are holding the whole class back. This continues year after year. </p>
<p>Net result? The few who do make it to college/University are given special consideration and are admitted with the skills learned in their under performing schools. Many of these admits fail at the college level, and now the outrage is that these under prepared students are admitted by the State University system and are “abandoned” thus in large numbers are not graduating. So, the argument goes, these students should be getting extra resources in the college too. WHEN DOES IT END?</p>
<p>That is my question. And I suspect as cold as it seems and unamerican as it is, we should educate like many other countries-after 5th grade if the student doesn’t test into the college prep track for middle school- that track is not available to them- especially if they have behavior problems. The fact is, we do not have enough money as a nation to continue to educate as we have in the past- and all evidence seems to indicate no amount of money is going to address this problem in the public school system because it is a failure at home. This is what the teachers report every year. And, BTW, this is a huge problem in high performing schools too. It is not just a low income problem. And before we focus on “the single mother with two jobs” let’s consider that while touching, this is not the norm, nor the reason for most of the failure of parents to promote and support education in their homes.</p>
<p>Sad, but change is needed. 99% percent of the problem in public schools is poor behavior and the manners of students. Continued disruptive behavior should = no access to public education.</p>