Is evidence of high IQ worth mentioning?

Graduate School
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<p>Thanks trout, for one of the better replies in this thread.</p>

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<p>I agree that these are clear shortcomings. If there was more data, I’d gladly use it. Alas, there is not. However, 900 is still, by rounding to the closest integer multiple of 50%, approximately 50% of our national club’s members (that is, at least 25% and less than 75%).</p>

<p>I think, and I hope you agree, Mensa members not representing the whole 98th percentile population is a more probable problem than the possibility of survey answerers not representing the whole Mensa population, based on just the ratios.</p>

<p>Thus, for the sake of this argument it should be an important point to think what kind of subpopulation of the 98th percentile actually joins the Mensa. If it was (re succinct mood: should I use ‘were’ here?) the laziest and the most uneducated portion, the average IQ of the whole PhD population would go up. And vice versa: if it was the most active and educated portion, the average IQ of PhD holders would go down. This is a very significant question, because it determines how big errors are caused by assuming the random sampling.</p>

<p>I have no educated guesses or real data about what portion that might be, though obviously it has to be described by more than the two sample qualities I mentioned above. I warmly welcome any speculation, but before any good reasoning or data is available I will continue assuming that they are randomly picked from the total 98th percentile, only because I believe that assumption is likely to be the least wrong (or rather: the expectation value of the wrongness of the assumption is, I believe, the lowest).</p>

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<p>Yes, I might. Or, I might not. Obviously, that also depends greatly on how you define success. Nevertheless, I don’t think we have any evidence to support either opinion based on any sensible definition of success.</p>

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<p>What you say is true. I hoped to make it very clear that whenever I use “IQ” or “intelligence” I only mean logical problem-solving thinking ability. For more wordy definition I’d use something like “the ability to see structure in a sequence of events”. This is not because I believe it to be the only form of intelligence, but instead for the sake of simpler writing.</p>

<p>And lastly,

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<p>I’m not sure why they would giggle over three or four hours spent in high school. I’m not sure how much better my publication list would be had I spent that time in some other way. Also, I was led to believe that 80th percentile is actually a score good enough that it should be mentioned. Do you disagree? Or do you think the value of percentile-score varies with different tests?</p>

<p>LastThreeYears:</p>

<p>Well, I suggest you read the thread again, then. The point was the address the very widespread false assumption that the average IQ of physics PhD’s is 130ish. I believe the point was met, of course assuming my data is in fact real and that the problems with data set are not significant. The statistical probability of me getting answers to my questions is extremely low, but still I ask: what part of the post was nonsense? I mean, of course it’s fun trying to appear cool by saying tough things like that, but it’s not like we are 14 years anymore.</p>

<p>Also, most adult males would beat most 6-year old males in a personal combat. Would you say “guess age beats <other qualities=”" relevant=“” to=“” personal=“” combat=“” performance=“”> every time."?</other></p>

<p>wis75:</p>

<p>I believe I can not reply anything meaningful to the most parts of your message, but here’s what I was able to do:</p>

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<p>Nice. Feel free to elaborate. Do you mean writing long messages means the writer has no life? If not, I completely missed what you mean.</p>

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<p>And you know this exactly how? Is there some data about college/chemistry student IQ that I missed? Are you implying that athletic scholarships require high IQ? Of course severe brain damage patients are a different story, but I assume you mean something like 2nd percentile.</p>

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<p>Although it can’t probably be avoided, I truly mean no offence when I say this: that is by far the best thing you have said in the whole thread, and it summarizes very well what I think about the subject. You caught me by surprise, but damn, that really was a nice pair of sentences.</p>

<p>So, it seems like the topic of our main disagreement is about the average IQ of college/PhD students. I can’t really do much if you refuse to read the reply in which I describe what kind of data I have and what does it say. You could, of course, provide contradicting data.</p>

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<p>get a real life. </p>

<p>son’s is higher. he spends time thinking about contraptions. and in the last few months, made them work. you can almost see the cells flashing.</p>

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<p>Good for him, although I don’t really know how you can be sure, when the only number I’ve given is “at least 130”.</p>

<p>And I’d still like to hear details about my lack of life. After all, this is a forum where it should be possible to assume that people can back up their opinions.</p>

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<p>I am so surprised by all the hostility on such a simple question. I think that mentioning a relatively high IQ would shout out extreme potential, which is measured by almost every other component in an application. When the colleges look at your gpa, etc, they look for potential success in one’s graduation and fulfillment of the college’s expectations. I see participation in the mensa club representing any other club that builds up one’s character.
There are many “phonies” out there that cheat, plagiarise, or temporarily memorize material and end up with faulty test scores. Giving a good indicator of a high iq score would eliminate any doubts of one’s credibility. For example, one can “buy” papers, mindlessly study specifically for any given test and score higher than anyone would expect. I’ve known 2 [stupid- Ed.] people sneakily get admitted to a decent college through these methods. So I’m not speaking hypothetically here.
I also do not get the point where revealing the participation of mensa activities makes you look arrogant. Additionally, the academic test scores, gpa, and ec’s are subtly trying to determine your intelligence, or in turn, your potential.</p>

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<p>Well, that was surprising. And refreshing.</p>

<p>I also know some people who study mainly by acquiring a couple of old exams from older students, and then learning to do those calculations and them only. They do generally very well on the tests, because professors are lazy and usually only pick questions from a small pool. This works even better for homework assignments, which are rarely changed at all, and thus copying the previous solutions usually gets you max score.</p>

<p>That’s why I’m not a big fan of GPA as a predictor of potential for anything. Of course, the American system may be less susceptible for this kind of cheating.</p>

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Again, however, the question then comes up “if you are so smart, why didn’t you do better?” And how “relatively high” an IQ are you talking about, and how do you (or the adcoms) know what scale to measure you by? What is the average PhD applicant IQ in YOUR field, at THIS school?</p>

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Why, because smart people can’t cheat? It makes it less likely that they would need to, but character issues are not correlated with intelligence. Cheating is largely a factor of laziness, not intelligence.</p>

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They are trying to determine far more than that - they are also looking for your attention to detail, your level of dedication, and your level of preparedness. From everything I have observed, those are all more important than whether or not you score ten points higher on an IQ test.</p>

<p>Anyway, I heartily encourage both of you to follow your heart, attach your IQ score report to your applications, and then let us know what happens. If possible, please ask the schools whether or not they found the inclusion of the IQ score to be a useful differentiator in selection, and in what manner.</p>

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I hope some of you still get notified of comments on this thread.

I have to ask, why is it such a bad thing to want to be proud of having a high IQ?

How is it any different from any and all of the things that each one of you brag about (or at least proud of) in your own lives?

Why is it that it is more socially acceptable to brazenly brag about just about anything in our current society than it is to ask a question in the most polite way possible (just as the OP did in this thread) about your IQ? From number of followers on twitter and likes on facebook, to high school GPA and SAT scores, to being rich, to having well endowed, ahem… appendages.

But just inferring that you have a high IQ makes you a social pariah. You people should all be ashamed of yourselves if you put a negative comment on here that wasn’t at least crudely veiled as a constructive remark.

The reason that people with high IQ’s often drop out of school isn’t because we are “lazy turds”, it’s because we get sick of not having an alternative to being in the same classes with you lunkheads and watching you fumble around and mess it up for the 80% of the time youre struggling, and we’re not learning anymore.

Am I mad at you for holding my learning back? No. Am I angry because I’m a college dropout with a crappy sales job because of it. No. Do I think that having a high IQ makes me better than you? No, just different. Each one of you is better than me at at least one thing, probably more than one. What I am is absolutely fed up with feeling like I need to conceal my IQ like it’s leprosy when it should be something that is revered and cultivated, like any of your individual talents and accomplishments should be.

To those of you who offered constructive contrarian commentary, please ignore that statement, and although you and I might still disagree, I appreciate your comments. Especially the ones that gave me something new to think about.

“The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination.” -Albert Einstein.

Or if you prefer, Seinfeld to Costanza, “Ya know… were trying to have a society here.”

mod note - edited to remove profanity. - juillet

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