<p>I personally agree, but I decided to post this here since a Brown professor was the subject of the headline:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/01/14/evolution.stickers.ap/index.html[/url]”>http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/01/14/evolution.stickers.ap/index.html</a></p>
<p>I believe in both evolution and creationism...a middle ground perhaps</p>
<p>Gravity is also "a theory, not a fact," so the sticker-slappers (lol) are hypocrites.</p>
<p>I accept evolution as truth (until a better scientific theory comes along, though any future theories will just be improvements on evolutionary theory).</p>
<p>Have any of you heard of the case with the Dover High School in Dover, PA, school board purchasing bio books that teach about intelligent design? I live like 10 miles from that high school (it's in the same county I live). It's pretty ridiculous. In fact, Red America is ridiculous.</p>
<p>What's the purpose of biology class? Leaning FACTS and CREDIBLE THEORY about biology, not illogical hypotheses with no ground in empirical science. Evolutionary theory is so widely accepted amongst respected biologists, I find it so hard to believe that anyone can even attempt to dispute evolution as a fact (especially the insane young earth creationists who claim the earth to be ~10,000 years old, because of course radiation dating is a lie developed by scientists).</p>
<p>Ironically, Ken Miller (the Brown biology professor in mention) wrote a famous book called Finding Darwin's God, one of very few scholarly works that attempts to reconcile evolutionary theory with Christian faith. It's a very interesting read.</p>
<p>You guys should consider taking Bio 20 with Ken Miller when you get to Brown (he's the guy that probably wrote your high school bio book as well). He's a really great lecturer and a pretty unconventional teacher. Our freshman year he had us read a Kurt Vonnegut novel (Galapagos) in order to stir up discussion about evolution. It's the only science class I've ever been assigned a novel in. In addition to our biology textbook, we also got to read The Double Helix (Watson) and The Selfish Gene (Richard Dawkins) among others. It's a really great class.</p>
<p>Any man who assigns Vonnegut must be the greatest professor ever.</p>
<p>I'm so taking that.</p>
<p>I'm a deist, so evolution all the way</p>
<p>And this thread is in the Brown forum because...? I'm sure there are a lot of professors besides those at Brown that agree with evolution, so maybe you just want a place to toot out your support for evolution in a more liberal atmosphere so you won't get blasted by creationists.</p>
<p>Anyway, yeah I have heard of the case in Dover High School. I agree with you that a biology class, in fact, ANY science class, should be about its respective topic. In my view, religion should not be taught in a science class, just as how evolution is not taught at church. It works both ways.</p>
<p>However, I don't agree with you when you say "illogical hypotheses with no ground in empirical science." I understand that you believe in evolution and I agree that creationism doesn't have a firm grounding in science, but you shouldn't be so quick to put down religion and hail science to such a level. Science is often wrong.. in fact, science can be considered a discovery of untruths rather than truth. Theories change decade after decade, and science operates basic on inductive logic, which is always tentative.</p>
<p>I don't have a problem with science (prospective science major here) nor religion, but I just don't agree when people think that something must be an "illogical hypothesis" if it has no ground in empirical science.</p>
<p>it's in the brown forum because a brown professor led the opposition against the stickers and it is his textbook that was in question</p>
<p>icymoon... science changes with time. Religion does not.</p>
<p>Thanks dcircle.</p>
<p>Umm amor, religion does change with time. If you ever studied european history, you would know about the Protestant Revolution.. and how that resulted in a huge number of different Christian sects and ideas. There are still new religions forming today. If religion did not change, everyone in Europe would still be Catholics. Obviously, that's not the case. Moreover, certain aspects of Catholicism do change to match the time we live in.</p>
<p>Anyway, were you trying to say that science changes, religion doesn't, so that's why religion is inferior or what? I didn't get your point from your last post.</p>
<p><em>shakes head</em> I feel a heated arguement coming on</p>
<p>We had an incident at our school that <em>almost</em> got rid of our bio book that is pro-evolution theory. It was really dumb.</p>
<p>There is this one kid who has started a whole born-again christian movment ... he goes around telling everyone they're worthless crap so i don't even know why people listen to him ... anyway, my sophomore year he took biology and he got the whole class in an uproar when they were talking about evolution ... "God made us, we're not from apes. Accept Jesus Christ!" was the pinnacle line. It was actually kind of funny b/c the bio teacher (who I had as a freshman) was like "somebody go find Grace O'Keeffe" (that's me) ... b/c she knew I had dealt w/him before. (we had a big debate freshman year on "being saved") ...</p>
<p>Anyway, Miller sounds like a really cool professor... I hope I get to take his class.</p>
<p>Religion definitely evolves. Well, society's interpretation of it does, and that's really what we're talking about. Science itself, scientific truths, do not change, but the science that we learn often changes and is disproved. The manifestations of both science and religion change. </p>
<p>I grew up with the creationist theory and I guess it didn't work, because I just see it as a nice story. The evolution theory makes sense to me. I wouldn't be surprised to see modifications to it, but I think the basis is logical.</p>
<p>I don't really have a problem with the stickers. I would have a problem with teaching the creationist theory in biology class. Save that for theology or something.</p>
<p>Celebrian, I'm not planning on having any heated argument. I'm simply supporting my view of things. Rest assured. :)</p>
<p>Oh and philosophia, what annoys me is when people try to attack other people's arguments when they don't even have their facts straight. Lol especially that kid talking about evolution, "God made us, we're not from apes. Accept Jesus Christ!" Haha, the theory is that humans and apes evolved FROM a common ancestor, sheesh. And he needs to separate religion and evolution. Just as I'm sure he wouldn't like someone preaching evolution in a religious atmosphere, he needs to stop preaching about Jesus in a science classroom.</p>
<p>Icymoon: to be a little ironic - amen! (haha)</p>
<p>When I tried to explain evolution to him, he ran away. The next day, I got called down to the head GC's office where that kid was there w/his parents, the bio teacher, and the principal. It was surreal. They had somehow convinced the GC that I had insulted his religion (??) ... but she eventually saw the truth when the kid's parents whipped out a mini New Testament and asked if I would accept Christ as my true savior. haha, good times. Believe what you want, just don't force it on me.</p>
<p>Hahaha omg, that's hilarious how the kid's parents whipped out a New Testament.</p>
<p>Sigh, another one of those people who are so blinded that they refuse to see any other side of the story, and even asked you to accept Christ as your true savior! Lol, my school's really liberal and accepting of opposing theories and such, so I don't get to hear about those kinds of things often.</p>
<p>So thanks for sharing a very entertaining story. ;)</p>
<p>I found a mini new testament on my auditorium floor! And I did keep it and put it in my pocket. </p>
<p>A fundamentalist christian girl whom I have considered my friend for about 10 years is accusing me of hating her because she's christian. All because I started a GSA and don't support Christian teachings in class discussions (in English, not bio). It's kind of confusing.</p>
<p>I have a lot of stories about my run-ins with different religions ... I somehow attract all the fundamentalists. If they could, I think 3/4 of my school would come after me with pitchforks, screaming "liberal!!" ... and all I do is meditate. haha ... but I'm glad someone else finds it entertaining. Sometimes I have to hold back my laughter (i.e. when the kid's parents asked me to accepted their savior, etc)</p>
<p>And Rabo, I know what you mean. I tried starting a GSA last year, and I even had a teacher to help . . . but she got fired (they said b/c she didn't have tenure, but everyone knew she was homosexual and always tried to alienate her ...) ... and people already hate me b/c I cofounded Amnesty International, so the GSA idea slowly slipped away. But anyway, more power to you! ;) ... fundamentalists confuse me too.</p>
<p>Existence is a tricky thing, nobody knows the truth behind it. From what I have seen and read, evolution seems very credible but you also have to ask yourself how the universe was created, how anything was created. That's where a God comes in for some, but if that would be true, how was God created? Did it create itself? Nobody will have the answers to these questions and the topic is only a breeding ground for heated arguments.</p>
<p>Are we talking about micro or macroevolution?</p>