<p>Hi, My son is a sophmore. He says he wants to do engineering but I am not sure if you can handle the hard work and load. He is good with Math and okay with science ,overall a B, B + student. He is in orchestra and loves it and wants to continue. He did french in the freshman and sophmore year. He also loves acting and has performed in school plays most of his school life.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Wondering if it would make sense to give up french next year( as it is pulling down his GPA a little bit) and do something like priniciples of engineering/ or AP statistics. He is in honors algebra this year and is scheduled to take precal next year.</p></li>
<li><p>If we decide to give up french,how diffiicult would the principles of engineering be for a junior. He has done basic physical science in 9th grade but nothing more. Since courses like these have college credits we were looking at it. Would this be looked upon favorably in an application or not. Our second choice is AP Statistics.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>3.We found Carnegie mellon had a bachelors of arts( acting) and computer science. Are there any other colleges in the midwest or texas or florida that offer similar courses. </p>
<ol>
<li>What colleges would you recommend if his average GPA is around 3.2. He is a swimmer and part of the school swim team.</li>
</ol>
<p>5 he would take the ACT and SAT next year. Does taking the SAT subject tests in maths and one science help in admissions.</p>
<p>Thanks in advance for all your help.</p>
<ol>
<li>This is a hard one and the cause of endless discussion here on CC. In a similar situation my son decided to take Latin 4 junior year, so that he would have three years of a language on his high school transcript and credit for 4 years of language. The B- he got was a gift. And thankfully it was a little more when weighted.</li>
<li>AP Statistics is not hard. I don’t know about Principles of Engineering - where would he be taking it?</li>
<li>The only other engineering school I’m familiar with that has a drama department is WPI.</li>
<li>Might check out this thread: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/529500-engineering-b-students.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/529500-engineering-b-students.html</a> or this list: [A+</a> Schools for B Students | Top National Universities | US News Best Colleges](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/a-plus]A+”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/a-plus)</li>
<li>Many engineering programs ask for two subject tests (often Math 2 and Physics or Chem), some waive the requirement if you take the ACT. He should take Math 2 upon finishing Pre-Calc, and if he’s taking AP Physics B or AP Chem those would be good subject test choices since they align reasonably well with the AP.</li>
</ol>
<p>You may have to check what level of foreign language the various colleges of interest want to see. Some want to see at least level 2, while others want to see at least level 3. Some prefer level 4 or as much as the student can take.</p>
<p>AP statistics is unlikely to be useful for college credit for an engineering major. If his engineering major requires statistics, it will likely require a calculus based statistics course.</p>
<p>SAT subject test requirement vary by school. Check their web sites.</p>
<p>Regarding 3: I believe CMU has an audition based BFA degree with acceptance rates in the single digits. It is usually not feasible to double major, especially with engineering. It may be more feasible to minor. There is a sub forum on CC for potential theater majors. </p>
<p>A few years ago there were some threads about a student who was successfully double majoring in engineering and musical theater at Michigan, but it is extremely difficult and rare in an audition based BFA degree.</p>
<p>From all accounts, the audition based theater programs are VERY difficult to get into–low single digit admissions, however, males seem to have an easier time with that. I would suggest he look into non-audition programs instead. Schools like St. Olaf would be a good choice. He could do both there. For audition based programs it sounds like between classes and rehearsals the kids are busy all day and into the evening, leaving little to no time to study for something as demanding as engineering where as non-audition programs, rehearsals would take up a similar amount of time as a sport.</p>
<p>As for the foreign language. Most colleges like to see at least 2 years and if they only take 2 years, they like to see those 2 years junior/senior year. More colleges are moving to a 3 year requirement, some have 4. I also know plenty of people that got the FL requirement waived but you would not want to count on that happening. His GPA is pretty low and it’s harder to bring up a GPA then it is to pull one down so he really wants to show an upward trend junior year. </p>
<p>Other schools to look at in the Midwest besides St. Olaf would be Luther, University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire, St. Thomas and some of the other smaller LAC’s. Many offer computer science majors, not so much engineering but they tend to have cooperative agreements with schools that do. A lot will hinge on his ACT/SAT score and the kind of school he wants to attend.</p>
<p>There is a drama minor at CMU. I don’t believe you can double major, but check with the department. The OP’s grades probably aren’t good enough for CMU in any event.</p>
<p>If your son intends to apply to a competitive college, then at least three years of same foreign language is minimum standard. (Some kids opt for Latin as their foreign language, because it’s usually not taught as a spoken language.) For Carnegie Mellon and other super-competitive schools, I’d expect four years of foreign language is the standard expectation, given the glut of candidates.</p>
<p>Your son sounds like a good candidate for a LAC with strong math-CS and theatre departments. Many of 3-2 programs with engineering schools, if student decides to obtain an engineering degree too. </p>
<p>FYI: He’ll need more than a 3.2 for Olaf, and at least an ACT 28. Removing foreign language to bump the GPA isn’t a good move.</p>
<p>No input on the foreign language decision, but my son took Principles of Engineering (Project Lead the Way class) last year. He was a freshman with little formal science prior to taking the class. He was studying geometry and alg 2 for his math that year. </p>
<p>I HIGHLY recommend the PoE class for any student interested in studying engineering. The class provided useful overviews of different branches of engineering. Conceptual development was tied to hands on projects, allowing the the students to implement the information learned in class. It also had a career research component including a job shadow. DS is in AP Physics this year and has mentioned a couple of times how useful the PoE class has been for understanding the mechanics concepts. </p>
<p>If your son can manage the french class as well as the PoE class, that would be ideal, IMO.</p>
<p>U Iowa has a strong engineering program and a very vibrant and strong arts culture including a theatre major. A 3.2 gpa and an average ACT would get him in. While he would get accepted at U Iowa, his grades would be on the very low end for Iowa engineering students so despite being an easy admit, the program itself is not easy. </p>
<p>The enginineering program at Iowa only requires (I think) 2 years of a foreign language at the HS level and no additional requirements beyond that. Most other majors at Iowa require either 4 years of HS foreign language or 1-2 years at the U depending on where he places into.</p>
<p>I would also recommend the P of E class. The P of E could really help him dtermine if engineering is for him. My son took it and knew right away that engineering was not for him.</p>
<p>OP, have you looked at what you can afford for school? What is your home state? Some states have Us which have both acting and Comp Sci (Wright State in Dayton for one, though that would be a BFA for acting).</p>
<p>FWIW - My son only took 3 years of French and was admitted into both Yale and Rice. He had scheduling conflicts and chose to take AP Music Theory instead of French his junior year.</p>
<p>Of most concern is the HS gpa. It is too soon to target specific schools as his competitiveness for many could change. Tell him this spring’s grades and his junior year grades count the most. An improving grade point will offset a slow start in HS. </p>
<p>It sounds like French is not his forte. HE should decide if he wants the HS engineering course or more French. The only advantage of finishing the 4th year of French is in meeting a university’s foreign language graduation requirements in any school/college without needing any in college (UW-Madison is my reference point, his 3 years would be sufficient for a BS). Taking the Eng. course may be his motivation for doing well to be accepted at schools with better engineering programs or it could change his mind and change the schools he chooses to apply to. </p>
<p>HS is a time to grow and change, to explore things. I’d go with the engineering at this point, if HE wants to.</p>
<p>I think, for an engineering student, three years of French is probably fine for most schools. My son took Principles of Engineering which I recommend. I don’t think it’s necessarily impressive since it’s not a higher-level course, but I think it gives students a good feel for engineering (particularly mechanical)-- which many students do not have when they chose the career. </p>
<p>For that range of gpa, you may have good instate options but other schools we looked at for my kid in that range (we were looking at mechanical engineering): Syracuse, RIT, Alfred U in NY, Univ of Buffalo, NC AT&T, University of Maryland Baltimore County, U of Arizona.</p>
<p>For acting/engineering, it really depends how good the student is since acting is audition-based. A very good actor may want to consider Univ of Cincinnati CCM. Another school that may be less competitve is Temple.</p>
<p>FYI, acting does not have to be auditon based to get into a program. There are many, many BA programs in theatre and theatre studies that are non-auditioned. Even at schools that also have engineering (Bucknell comes to mind for example).</p>
<p>But I do think it’s pretty difficult to double major in engineering and something like theatre because of required classes and time commitments.</p>
<p>Temple’s BA in theater is auditioned based and competitive. Not sure if they have a minor, which would probably be the best option with engineering anyway.</p>
<p>PoE is a pretty time consuming class but does not require math of any significance (at least when DD1 took it a few years back). AP Stats is supposedly fairly easy (as AP classes go, AP WH is turning out to be a career for DD2 but she loves it)</p>
<p>I would stick with French for 4 years instead. DD1 got her money’s worth out of the ton of PoE, architectural drafting, and various AP and non AP art and design classes in Architecture, but I don’t think that for a straight engineering type application in a B+ school PoE would make a difference. If he is having a hard time in French maybe he needs a tutor? </p>
<p>DD2 did French in middle school (3 yrs) and has had a French tutor for 3 years and she’ll be fully bilingual in 3 years and that should show up for more than PoE even in her college apps. In fact, French availability and strong program in such is a requirement for her 
(Tulane here we come…) even tho she is looking for STEM type colleges.</p>
<p>I think lots of universities would have engineering departments and theatre departments (and music if he keeps that up). Our state flagship (not in your area) gives scholarships to kids who play in marching band even if not music majors…may not apply depending on instrument. Engineering is time consuming major without many non-science electives which makes it hard to double major, especially in two different colleges. But if he loves theatre/music most schools would have an outlet for his interest. I would continue with language so you can exempt it in college, but it’s hard to say for sure unless you have some college list where you can look up requirements at each school.</p>
<p>Yes, both CCM and Temple were suggestions for a very good actor whose grades will not get him/her accepted at a very competitive engineering school. The OP mentioned CMU which is very competitive or drama and engineering so I offered some suggestions in case the student is particularly artistically gifted. Syracuse is also competitive for drama. The other schools I suggested are generally less competitive.</p>
<p>Hi there, thanks so much for your reply. The main reason of giving up french is because the High school
he is in does not have enough enrollment and so they are putting the french 1 and french 4 students together next year. Not great teaching staff and the kids will have to do a lot on their own. Not sure if that will work well for my son. He is not bad in french has been getting B- so far…</p>
<p>We are in MN and the Un of Minnesota has a requirement for only two years of foreign language and that is what prompted this thought process. Just want to make sure we are not making a big mistake.</p>