Very excited by son’s acceptance to Gtech. However, in addition to congratulations, we have been hearing that Gtech is a great school but unnecessarily difficult. This comes from graduates, current students, and some parents. And, these are very smart and successfull people, we are hearing from. They say Gtech teaches high end engineering theory ( my medical brain has no idea exactly what this means), making classes very challenging without adding a lot of value to the education. Has anyone else heard from former and/or current students who can offer a perspective on this?? I am not doubting it is a wonderful a school, just about curriculum content. Also, how difficult compared to other respected or state engineering schools?
I’m a current student. Very few of us have transferred from other top engineering schools. We definitely hear that GT is super hard, but we don’t have much to compare it to, aside from transfers from Georgia Southern and places like that who attest to the fact that their previous schools were very easy. I can tell you that our alum are very successful, that we have lots of opportunities to do research with field-leaders, that many of us co-op or intern and have job offers well before we graduate due to that. It’s hard, but it’s manageable if you’re a hard worker. Our program is going to be more rigorous than many state engineering schools, but I’m sure it’s not really harder or easier than University of Michigan, Purdue, MIT, Stanford, and other top engineering schools (not that those are all known for being brutally hard). I can tell you that I got an internship the summer after my freshman year, which would have been a lot less likely had I attended my state flagship’s engineering program. GT is hard but definitely not impossible!
@gogeorgiatech - Thanks so much for your insights, it is valuable to those of us who are new!
Seems like the best engineering schools are necessarily hard. I would hope the best med schools are similarly hard. I just don’t want 'sort of" to be part of the discussion if I need a physician or an engineer.
@Momof3kidsau, firstly value implies different things to different folks. I am very impressed that GTech stresses the value of laying a strong foundation in Engg. education by emphasizing not only the practical aspects (research, internships/coops, etc) but also the intrinsic theoretical nuances. This I believe leads to the forming of a well-rounded Engineer. As I have mentioned in some of my other posts, folks wanting to study Engg. should look beyond getting a high-paying job out of school. They should consider themselves to be future builders, creators and entrepreneurs.
I am very sure that it is not only GTech but the better Engg. schools that do focus on a solid core theoretical curricula. I have been the recipient of such an Engg. education and cherish what it brought to me in making me question and understand abstract/complex topics/issues, whether be it during my post-grad (B school in my case) years or work career.
Knowing what GTech brings made my D2 choose to study there (she had other attractive options), she is a sophomore there. She will be a 3rd generation Engineer in our family !
@Momof3kidsau These types of questions confuse me: How the heck do undergraduates decide what courses and schools are unnecessarily hard. It is as if they already know something the teacher doesn’t. And by the way, courses at schools like Michigan, Berkeley, and MIT are in general as tough or tougher (objectively. As in many courses in STM and E write harder exams and maybe emphasize a different way of learning things). Students complain naturally, but no one says it is unnecessarily hard because that level of academics is expected. People who say “this STEM course is unnecessarily hard” talk as if they’re experts. Sure courses can be easier, but ideally if you go to an elite school of any sort, you should expect most courses to be more challenging than elsewhere. Otherwise, it is unlikely that the degree at said school would have achieved its prestige. If you want to compare courses, just go on something like MIT Open Courseware (I will do an example below).
Also, the idea that it Berkeley, and Michigan are in the same tier of difficulty (or the other 2 a little harder, if not a lot) is unsurprising. Their student bodies are the same as many top private schools, many of which are also known for making many STEM classes noticeably more difficult than other schools (IE, they are known for focusing on content and theories that would go unemphasized at other schools and then you’re likely to have a professor that writes exams with problems most of the students cannot do or ones that require some rather large leaps of faith when solving). For those three “public” (which for some reason folks associate with less prestige or academic challenge) may as well just be a label. They have high caliber student bodies and the curriculum reflects it (STEM, at even grade inflated top schools is very challenging. Only some professors are going to aim below the capabilities of the students, most will aim on par or above). This “our school is unneccessarily difficult compared to other schools in our league” is a common claim among pre-healths and engineering students at top schools (public or private) and it rarely is completely or remotely true. What can happen is some field (s) of STEM (like depts within engineering) could indeed be generally more difficult than competitor schools of the same caliber, but then those schools will be more difficult in the areas left over. It is mainly about departmental culture when at these levels of schools.
Maybe compare some introductory math and physics classes (these often give some slight idea of what one is getting into as these set the foundation for the more applied courses) to those at other elite STEM schools or those with elite engineering programs to get an idea: Let’s do physics
Georgia Tech EM (physics 2) course: Challenging indeed (I believe this is a more difficult instructor)
http://www.physics.gatech.edu/~courses/2015/Spring/2212/GH/index.html
MIT : Appears quite a bit more painful to me (maybe also a difficult instructor)
http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/physics/8-022-physics-ii-electricity-and-magnetism-fall-2004/exams/
UCBerkeley: Pretty rough as well
https://tbp.berkeley.edu/courses/physics/8B/
Georgia Tech doesn’t appear to be doing anything out of the ordinary in its foundation courses in comparison to other high caliber engineering schools. I could have also added Austin and Michigan.
Part of it is students accepting that they go to a “Big Boy league” school for STEM. It will be challenging, especially if in engineering. They aren’t going to give you straight forward problems and limit themselves to presenting the simplest and most “useful” of theories. They would bore themselves and the talented students in the class.
My brother-in-law has worked with many engineers and he says they have never been disappointed with any from GT! So they’re doing something right.
Just m.o.
@bernie12 @SouthFloridaMom9 - thanks for your insights and comments. My dad, husband, and son-in-law and his father are all/where (in my dad’s case he has passed away) engineers. Both my husband, and son-in-law’s father own successful engineering companies, and my son-in-law works for a company owned by GTech grads. They all find Gtech engineers to be well prepared and hard workers. Hence, my son applying. They also hire from several state and private schools, and find these engineers to be overall top notch. Seems like if you can make it through engineering school, you are top notch to start with! Gtech by all accounts, including their own, is difficult and demanding, which is fine, as long as, it is for the students benefit. Son is looking foward to attending, so we are interested in hearing others prospective and insights on professor quality, course content, student life, facilities etc. First hand accounts are very useful. So, thank to all who answered!
@Momof3kidsau – Thank you for putting this question out there. My DD was accepted to GTech. She is also accepted to Pitt, Temple, Louisville and Alabama, each with merit aid. We are OOS and expect little or no aid from GT. In addition to $ concerns, I am also concerned if GT is the right “fit” for her. My DD is extremely bright, so, too date, she has been fairly lazy. I do worry that she will not work hard enough at GT and then become disenchanted when she doesn’t do as well as she expects. Sounds crazy but anyone who has a similar student, I am sure can understand. I am not telling my DD to take the easy way out but, on visits, I do tell her to look around and notice what kids do between classes (relax, socialize, study). I am not sure how else to judge things but I would like my DD to be able to find a good balance between school and life. As parents, we are very impressed by GT and its students. I am just not sure that my DD is as driven.
@PhilaSkiMom - I do understand exactly where you are coming from. College can definitely be a wake-up call compared to high school. We know a very smart young man who was always tops in his class in high school and was absolutely shocked by the workload at Gtech. He has managed to do fine, but is learning that a “B” can be a beautiful sight.
College fit is very important, as what is good for one student is not always good for another. And, it is certainly worth noting the academic rigor and difficulty Gtech is known for. I am not an engineer, so I am not able to articulate why some students feel like it is made harder than necessary. I only know, I have heard this mentioned more than once by, current and not so current, students. It is important to mention they are all happy they went to Gtech and highly value their degrees, but to a person warn of demanding and hard classes with a heavy homework load, which is fine if it is for the student’s benefit.
Our family all went to Auburn and my husband (BSEE) and son-in-law (BSEE and MS software engineering) pointed out it wasn’t exactly a cake walk at Auburn either. My daughter is a PharmD from Auburn, and she used to think their was nothing Auburn could do to her that her rigorous private high school hadn’t already done. She was mistaken. She got into Pharmacy school and discovered there was! College is challenging! Best of luck to your daughter!
Georgia Tech offers the same curriculum as Carnegie Mellon, U of Illinois, MIT, and Cal Tech, for difficulty, so a student who wants that caliber of education should attend. Yes, there is a difference in that level of theory and other more applied or less theoretical programs, perhaps, and it is useful for engineers in many fields such as fluid dynamics, weather modeling, fields of engineering like magnetic storage, plasma physics, nuclear physics and engineering and modeling of semiconductor devices. Some engineers in say marketing or facilities engineering, may never use the math but other engineering and science professionals use it every day. So it depends on your sons future career, whether he needs the computer modeling, and physics and engineering theory that GT will teach your son. Good luck.
The joke around here is that GT is where “Hope goes to die” because some of the kids lose their in-state HOPE scholarships (and Zell Miller full rides) because they can’t meet the GPA requirement after their freshman year at Tech.
There’s no doubt in anyone’s mind that it’s a phenomenal school that turns out top-notch graduates, though. I don’t even know how to categorize “unnecessarily hard”- it’s like saying someone is too well prepared?
My D attends GA Tech as a freshman studying engineering. She dual enrolled her senior year at a four year college taking Chemistry and other Honor’s classes. Hands down GT is ten times harder according to her. The sheer amount of homework for each class is nothing like the other state school. Much of the homework is graded for accuracy. She has at least one exam every week this semester, homework sets due all the time, papers to be written. She did not study much before GT and even could skim by at the other university without much effort. She now studies more than 40 hours a week to keep up with the work load and is in a classroom about 20 hours a week. She loves GT but it is extremely stressful. It is a school that you do leave the football game to study. Thursday and Friday nights are their party nights. Saturday nights are study time. It is definitely not a school where they hold your hand. My D is in a sorority and she has found that to be a great source of academic advice, career advice and emotional support. Without a doubt these kids are in demand with name brand employers. If you do not like Calculus, Statistics and computer science your class options appear very limited. Many students do not take 15 credit hours a semester but more like 12-14. Other thing to know is after first week of classes you cannot drop class without a W. Also, changing majors requires you to meet certain requirements such as GPA and/or certain classes being completed after freshman year.
@scubadive @MotherOfDragons @Coloradomama - Thanks to all of you for your insights. They are very helpful, especially the personal experiences.
To clafiy what I mean by “unnecessarly hard” I am talking about a class that is difficult just for the sake of being difficult or demanding, and not to provide a better education for the students. Most of my family is either engineering or medicine, but on my Mother’s side their are plenty of instructors, including an uncle who was dean of a physics department at a small private college in Virginia. Many teachers/professors are dedicated to their students education, and want to provide them the best experience possible. However, there are those who believe the more difficult they make the material and the more students struggle the better teacher they are. There are also those who can’t resist teaching about their own personal interests or areas of research wether it applies to the particular class they are teaching or not. Difficulty can impliy better quality to many people. However, sometimes it is difficult without adding any value. Since, we have heard that issue discussed in regards to some classes at Gtech, we are interested to know others experiences. Thanks again for all the information everyone has provided!
I have to say I don’t quite understand why any teacher would make it unnecessarily difficult, some courses at GT are difficult though.
So in other words, Georgia Tech teaches graduate level understanding in some undergraduate courses as does MIT, CMU etc. Its not unnecessary! Its FUN. But if a person does not like math it may seem hard. Remember what the Barbie doll said? Math is hard! But for some of us it is fun. There will always be a GT student ready and willing to learn advanced math topics. One thing a hard school does for a kid is make him humble! He learns he is not the best student out there, most of are not the best, in fact there is only one student in each class that is the best, and that person is a stand out. Your student will learn a ton if he befriends that student! Those super bright students usually tutor others at schools like GT and MIT. Its a hugely beneficial character trait to be humble. That is if it does not destroy the spirit, but thats what prayers are for, bolstering the spirit.
@Coloradomama: I feel like unnecessarily difficult is rare. Keep in mind that students scale difficulty rating based on the majority of the classes they take. So if one instructor stands out as noticeably more challenging or different than others in a department, then they receive that label of being unnecessarily hard. The reality is that, even at elite schools, many other instructors can be teaching something kind of close to a standard level course (as in is taught at the same level and assessments and assignments are the same as other schools with less capable student bodies).
Most elite schools are going to have several more professors in STEM (than non-elite counterparts) that still have very high standards even versus the elite student body. I personally think that when the teacher is good, gives lots of resources (whether it be study materials, mentoring in office hours), the difficulty of these instructors is totally worth it because you build skills that you would not have otherwise. Again, the difference between instructors with high standards and those considered more medium or easier is often that the latter only requires you to essentially know how to do the problem sets you were already given or to memorize content and a more challenging instructor asks you to take the knowledge and logic of those assignments and then apply it in sometimes a completely different, if not initially, unrecognizable way. In my opinion, it doesn’t hurt to have a few professors that push you to think differently/more fluidly like that (and not just stay limited to the ideas and problems they directly presented in class), especially in science curricula. The reality is that if you do projects in industry or graduate school, they will be more open ended and essentially ask you to constantly adapt your knowledge to a new, seemingly different problem.
More challenging teachers are often trying to develop that skill and the teachers who are good and supporting teaching at such a level believe that students at these selective schools can do it. These types of teachers are the reason I love things like biology and organic chemistry. Had I taken teachers who were more standard in how they test and teach, I’m sure I would have just gotten my grade and treated the course as a checkbox never truly appreciating how one is supposed to think in those fields. Science isn’t always about getting the right answer in a very particular way. The problems you get in real life often do not have algorithmic solutions that are already available/have been applied successfully. I’m a big advocate of lecture and lab components reflecting or encouraging actual scientific thinking as much as possible regardless of the class size. Sadly, many students stick to the belief that a science course and science is just about “the facts” and the proven processes that led to them.
@Momof3kidsau : Again, if the teacher actually tries to support the student through the course, then more rigor and students struggling may indeed be a good thing. Even if we’re smart, always “getting it” immediately is typically not realistic and if all teachers at an elite level or advanced school taught such that their talented student body just always “got it” then you’re assuming that they can go no higher in their abilities. Typically selective schools are academically elite because they have the instructors who are able to even challenge well-prepared students and make them even better. Whether or not one chooses to attend these places and get the full benefits (as in not overly engage in GPA management by simply dodging all hard instructors: Because honestly, many hard instructors are of higher quality. Sometimes easier or standard level instructors only teach at those levels because they are a) lazy or b) don’t have much time to dedicate to undergraduates so basically water it down enough to challenge enough students but also keep as many as possible away from their office hours or TA’s. They basically make the class “meh” enough so that they don’t have to put lots of effort into ensuring a decent success rate) is up to the work ethic and ego of the student.
There is a reason that GT grads are hired at such high rates and are aggressively recruited at companies throughout the south. I had one recruiter at a Fortune 100 company tell me that GT grads go directly to the interview process. It is a testament to the fortitude and tenacity of the students and it is widely recognized by employers. In this case, I think the results more than justify the program difficulty.
As a further note, the more intensive theoretical foundation of the GT curriculum is highly desirable to graduate schools. Many of the top graduate engineering schools find Americans insufficiently prepared when compared to their foreign counterparts, especially in mathematics. As a consequence , very well prepared Americans, (and especially persons of color and women - GT shines here), are especially sought after and have a better chance of obtaining a fully funded position.
If I were a company, I honestly would trust any major STEM school, especially ones as selective as Georgia Tech. Even if Tech wasn’t extra rigorous versus less selective places, by virtue of it being selective and a STEM school, students are more likely to have to pass advanced level maths than students in non-STEM majors and even certain science majors. Again, Tech has basically been considered as delivering an elite level of education even before it was considered an elite or even prestigious engineering school.
We are visiting ME department on Tuesday to speak with associate chair of undergraduate studies, as well as, economics professor. Looking forward to hearing more about Their curriculum, research, etc.
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Again, Tech has basically been considered as delivering an elite level of education even before it was considered an elite or even prestigious engineering school.
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haha, when was this “even before”? 1870?