<p>^^ I guess it’s just a sensitive topic for me. Being a humanities major on CC is no easy task :p! Sorry to have snapped. Truce? Lol</p>
<p>I think if we were discussing a maryland state school vs Stanford everyone would be a lot easier on the OP and most would say take the 80k debt. what I’m getting from this thread is that W&M is not very well regarded.</p>
<p>I always thought it was a very good school, but I guess it isn’t. So switch out W&M with HYPS and would people still tell the OP it’s a waist of 80K?</p>
<p>No one said it was a “waist” of $80k. Hyperbole doesn’t help. What multiple people have said is that $80k in debt for an undergrad degree in a major that doesn’t have a lot of potential for a high-paying job is unwise.</p>
<p>Some of the other schools you’ve mentioned as more prestigious have better FA policies, it seems, than W&M that would prevent the debt load OP is looking at.</p>
<p>This is a tough crowd; parents are feeling very visceral about this almost demanding OP settle for ‘bottom of the barrel’ because it leads to no debt for them.</p>
<p>Different strokes for different folks, I guess this is why Baskin and Robbins makes 32 flavors.</p>
<p>But, please, please don’t shove vanilla down my throat or anyone else’s, guys. Not naive, just happy with my own choices.</p>
<p>"For some it’s not about length of hair…it will always grow back. Rather, it’s about opportunity. "</p>
<p>And for some, it’s about being separated from your newborn, or worse.</p>
<p>I also did an Airforce scholarship for undergrad, but by medical school thoguht better of it, and took a loan for a cheap school. So I only owed four years by the time i went in and the wars started. Got out by the skin of my teeth, just before they started extending folks time, and not always voluntarily When i got out I had a 5 year old and a three year old, and had spent their early childhood worrying about having to leave them behind.</p>
<p>I also spent that four years evaluating people who thought they would die before they wnet back to their various assignments. Too bad for them!</p>
<p>Other than that it WAS a great opportunity.</p>
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<p>One, I’m not a parent, I’m a student. There are a few students on here.</p>
<p>Second, IT’S NOT THE BOTTOM OF THE BARREL. You have quite an elitist attitude. We’re trying to save the OP from crippling debt. W&M is a state school and there are PLENTY of other reasonably price schools that would suit the OP just fine. She might even <em>gasp</em> be really happy there!</p>
<p>Would he/she even be able to borrow 80K? It doesn’t sound like the parents could really cosign.</p>
<p>“waste” of $80K. FIFY. ;)</p>
<p>“Bottom of the barrel”? Who said that? Again, all the overstatement and drama aren’t helpful.</p>
<p>^redbluegoldgreen said it. He/she appears to believe that the only good schools are pricey ivies and privates. Everything else is “bottom of the barrel”.</p>
<p>Wow this thread is long and fussy.</p>
<p>Short story. {edit: longer than i thought it would be, but hopefull you gain some insight}</p>
<p>Applied to transfer to Georgia Tech for Digital Media Twice.
Got accepted.
Oos tuition ~30k a year for 2.5 years.
Looking at 75k or more to finish school there.
I get financial aid but it only covers about 15k/year.
On advice of several people I continued at 1 of 2 main state colleges for 1/3 the cost.
I’m not happy with my decision and would turn around and choose that debt in a heartbeat.</p>
<p>The difference is that gaTech would have been an infinitely more challenging school for an engineering minded student such as myself.
At my school, the majority of teachers can barely use computers.
Also I want to go to graduate school.
GaTech would have afforded me placement opportunities that my state school can’t hold a candle too. (I don’t even think they know the meaning of placement here. Eg. right now I’m fighting tooth and nail to even get a 15 hour internship REQUIRED to graduate cause the college doesn’t even have connections and tells the students to “find their own”.)</p>
<p>*as a side note to support an earlier commenter:
When I called GT and asked them how in the hell I would fill my financial aid gap, they said, verbatim, “just get here, we’ll worry about that when next semester comes around.”
Being skeptical, I kept asking how, and she kept skirting the topic.
Good schools keep their students, there’s always a way once you’re in the door.</p>
<p>In closing. My suggestion? Only go into debt if that school will be much more challenging and give you greater opportunities in the future. And only do that if you know you will take advantage of them. The best advice I ever got… When presented with two choices in life, the more difficult one is almost always correct. I would have less regrets had I followed this more often.</p>
<p>{edit: p.s. - it’s perfectly possible for his parents to have that high of an efc. Say a working family with combined total income of 40-70k but massive credit card debt, car loans, mortgage, and several children. Academia wants 20% of that money but the family is living week to week as it is.)</p>
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<p>Great advice the way you put it to the extent that it’s a business decision. For the OP it appears to be a consumption decision. </p>
<p>A business approach would be go 2 years at St Marys instate, at $25K/yr saving $5K per year of the $30K/yr allocation. Then transfer to W&M at $45K/yr, spend $35K/yr of parental money and borrow $10K/yr. Graduate with a degree from W&M with $20K of debt and $215/mo payments. </p>
<p>or </p>
<p>Go to UNC-Asheville or SUNY Geneseo for $27K /yr, transfer and then borrow $24K with $256 in payments. </p>
<p>or </p>
<p>Go to Truman State or University of Minnesota-Morris for roughly $20K/yr and only borrow $10K for W&M. </p>
<p>I still think that there are private schools like Hendrix where she could get a great deal too. It’s probably easier to get into W&M as a transfer anyway.</p>
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<p>Since we don’t know what the OP wants to do in the long run…we can’t say one way or the other. If the OP wants to become an English professor, and wants to get a PhD in English, then not starting grad school $80k in debt is a good idea. If the OP wants to be a novelist, and is willing to spend several years writing and taking part-time low-wage jobs just to pay the bills, then it would be a bad idea to finish undergrad with $80k in loans. </p>
<p>If, on the other hand, the OP wants to become an editor and is looking to make contacts in undergrad, or wants to take advantage of some special internship or other program that’s available at W&M (or HYPS), then maybe it’s not a waste of $80k. </p>
<p>If it’s that the experience going to W&M (or any tippy-top school) is going to be incredibly special, more special than at any other school–well, it’s the OP’s call if that’s a waste or not. </p>
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<p>Shrug. It’s no debt for us parents and students posting here. The debt will be entirely the OP’s. We just want to make sure that the OP carefully considers the tradeoff before deciding that it’s worth large loans just to have a nice piece of paper on the wall.</p>
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<p>Right… because students never drop out because they can’t afford it. </p>
<p>No- there is not always a way once you’re in the door. This is how many students get in trouble when their first few bills come and they realize that money isn’t magically appearing from thin air.</p>
<p>I think the OP needs more information, including:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>The real ‘happiness differential’: HOW MUCH happier will you be with ‘dream school’ than ‘affordable x’. You are not buying happiness with this debt, you are <em>maybe</em> buying <em>more</em> happiness. But chances are it will actually not make you happier at all, or the uptick in happiness from ‘dream school’ vs. ‘affordable x’ is neglible.</p></li>
<li><p>The real cost of this debt. It is not the amount you will owe at the end of four years but the amount you will owe plus interest accumulating over time over the years you have that debt.</p></li>
<li><p>The real cost of that debt <em>to you</em>. What else would you be using that money for down the road? Grad school? Downpayment on a house? Freedom to quit a bad job or work in a dream job that doesn’t pay so well (because you don’t have debt to worry about)!? A partner who isn’t afraid to marry you because of your debtload? I could go on here but try to guess you at 25 or 30, and how you will feel about the actual monthly cost of paying off this debt (and whether you might wish the debt away at that time).</p></li>
</ol>
<p>In another thread on boarding school for a high school kid redbluegoldgreen made the following comment:</p>
<p>“My advice at least today, is don’t get caught up in the magic of what could be, and marketing frenzy.” </p>
<p>Different topic, but the advice could easily apply to this topic of discussion.</p>
<p>My oldest brother attended a mid-tier state school because that is where my parents could send him (he had to live at home to make it happen). He has, more than anyone I know led the “epic life.” He travels, for enjoyment, all over the world at least twice a year. He quietly works out of house when he wants to. He never has a worry and is truly living the life he has always wanted. I also know of another person who happened to graduate from the same school and he, like my brother, is also worth millions and living a dream life.</p>
<p>Wow, thank you everyone for your posts. You all have really forced me to reconsider my options, and after discussing with the parents, I have decided I will not be applying ED. </p>
<p>Some people seem to be really harsh on both English majors and W&M- both unecessary, as English is a beautiful language and W&M is a fantastic school. However, thank you all for your input and I will now reconsider my choice of major as well. </p>
<p>CTTC, you mentioned a previous post of mine, in which I mentioned my experience in the visual arts field and my previous intentions to major in in, however, visual arts majors have an even harder time finding a job than most English majors do! </p>
<p>I am looking at a host of other amazing schools, like UNC Asheville, Oberlin, UMD, Mary Washington, SUNY Binghamton, Colgate, TCNJ, Drexel, and Boston, all of which are private (and may offer more aid) or public and significantly less expensive. I will hopefully still apply to W&M RD and cross my fingers for acceptance and a miraculous change in financial situation.</p>
<p>My Opinion</p>
<p>APPLY RD!!! It is too early to give up the dream.</p>
<p>LOOK FOR AFFORDABLE OPTIONS that you would really enjoy attending.</p>
<p>The time to ask the debt question is AFTER acceptance & FA packages come in.</p>
<p>NOW is the time to apply to an array that includes dream school, affordable state and privates with big merit. I am very sensitive to cost and not advocating applying to all schools that are $45k+/year or taking on debt. Just simply saying keep the dream alive by applying RD.</p>
<p>The truth is the OP has no idea what his financial situation is since the parents aren’t sharing details. Without a solid EFC he is in the dark. He does know what the parents & college fund will pay, so he has a solid baseline.</p>
<p>OOPS – cross-posted with the OP – Good Luck and let us know the results. I’d also suggest Ursinus be added to the list of schools you are looking into.</p>
<p>
What did they major in and what in the world do they do? I want that life :P</p>
<p>I don’t have any problem with being an English major. You can do a lot with it later on if you’re not held back by the chains of debt. It’s just very hard to live an independent life with that much debt with just a BA in English. Getting the critical thinking schools in a liberal arts education though could set you up nicely for a lot of careers.</p>