I haven’t had an employer ask about my GPA. Generally it’s not relevant to much of anything, except to say that you’re a good book-learner and test well. 90% of the questions employers ask are about people skills.
I once heard someone say he thought “The A people end up working for the B people who end up working for the C people.” (he was probably a C person!).
With my kid - he had a high GPA and had passed several actuary tests; that’s what got him noticed and job offers. I will say both my DH and I have worked for several top people who were very worldly, full of “Woo” and politicians/lobbyists at heart - but not the coldest beers in the fridge.
There are companies out there that have gpa requirements. Some of these companies also give logic tests and a few even ask for ACT/SAT scores for recent grads.
Graduating with a 4.0 and nothing else to show for it can be problematic. Graduating with a 4.0, a great resume, maturity, “people skills,” etc is not a problem when interviewing for your first job.
But would it be worse than graduating with a 3.0 in the same major and the same nothing else?
No! I did not mean to imply that…not at all.
I think having a 4.0 is something to be personally proud of. Some companies care and as some have said, some don’t. When my son graduated with his engineering degree companies were happier that he passed his FE during the spring on a first try. Other industries may value other qualities or just use GPA as one filter. I certainly remember HR people grimacing when newly minted graduates posted 4.0 at the top of their resume so if you do want to capture your GPA in your resume, try to do it tastefully within your college information and not as your “main selling point” as it can be a turn-off to some people just as easily as it can be a positive to other people.
What about Phi Beta Kappa? Is that also distasteful to include on a resume (no sarcasm intended)?
It seems to me that a resume is a place where you want to shine. In addition to internships, publications etc… I just can’t imagine not including a high gpa etc. as long as it’s done tactfully. I agree that a 4.0 is something to be proud of.
There is a lot more required in getting your first job than “simply” earning a 4.0 (which btw is not so easy). And I agree that if included, one might want to do it tastefully.
“I certainly remember HR people grimacing when newly minted graduates posted 4.0 at the top of their resume”
Perhaps it might be better further down the resume. Then HR could see they had other accomplishments and by the way they were also a 4.0 student. We tend to mention first what we value most.
Women generally have higher GPAs than men. So, not higher 4.0s might have broader hiring implications.
Traditionally, enlisted military jobs and sales jobs were not considered suitable for highly intelligent people…
Perhaps…yet being in the military…as well as gap year positions such as Peace Corp etc…are considered high level positions, experience… for entrance to medical school, grad school, and careers …once you leave those positions. These types of jobs are not for everybody…or most. I would not suggest doing them simply for the “prestige” or “boost” that these positions bring.
“It seems to me that a resume is a place where you want to shine”
But, shine in the ways they want. In many cases, a perfect college gpa isn’t related to the job itself. It’s a nice show of determination. Not necessarily what belongs at the top of a resume.
Absolutely…I agree.
I am “old” and have been at my job for many years. I just learned that applicants change their resume all the time depending on where they are sending it. My D tweeked hers several times when applying for various jobs…always highlighting different things, omitting other things etc.
GPA isn’t an intelligence test. Furthermore, neither of these groups are known for rejecting intelligent people or applicants with a high GPA.
In contrast, the military gives applicants a test that is more correlated with intelligence than GPA, and favors applicants with higher scores on that test, including giving them special enlistment bonuses. In my HS, all students had to take this test. I scored very well, which led to a ridiculous number of contacts from military recruiters. The military also tends to admit students before college GPA is available, making college GPA most likely irrelevant.
There are also many subgroups of sales that are known for hiring intelligent persons and/or better students in college. Sales doesn’t just mean working at The Gap along with high school students. For example, sales can could involve selling complex engineering systems and working with customers to debug and understand their issues with those systems. I’ve known many high GPA students at HYPSM… who have careers in sales.
I’m sure you can find someone in a sales hiring position who doesn’t like high GPA applicants, but the same could be said of most other fields. Those few are the exception, not the rule. The reasons for those exceptions vary. It could be as simple as the last n persons they hired with a ~4.0 GPA all turned out bad, so now they avoid them. Or it might relate to thinking they won’t fit in.
My dad once rejected an applicant for a lower salary mostly physical worker type position because he was turned of by the degree of intellectualism and being a PhD, thinking he wouldn’t fit in with the rest of the group. At smaller private companies, persons in hiring positions are often able to reject applicants on a wide variety of criteria and personal biases.
But the military does not reject those who enlist for being “too intelligent”.
Indeed, the fact that veterans’ benefits include money for college, and enlisted military service members can apply to and be accepted to the military academies, means that there is an expectation that substantial numbers of those who enlist in military service will be capable of attending college at some time in the future.
My husband sells multi million dollar packaging machinery to large pharma companies. He is the go-between for the customer and his company’s engineers. He’s a pretty smart guy, and yes, had a 4.0 in college.
“I don’t think there is much stereotyping of college students with a 4.0 GPA. I have seen stereotyping of high-school students with a 4.0 GPA on this forum–and that is often easier to achieve.”
I think it’s the same bias at work, the 4.0 hs student has to show that he or she is just not going to attend class, hit the library and then back to the dorm, basically that will contribute to the campus. The 4.0 college student may need to show they didn’t take easy courses and did challenge himself or herself. And will the 4.0 student be good to work with, and not show a lot of the stereotypes people have already mentioned.
“Not expressly hiring 4.0 GPA’s - that is such a negative and biased thinking.”
Well we all have our biases, a lot of them, and they’re subconscious, as the research has shown, so we don’t we’re aware of them. However I think tech companies not hiring 4.0s would be a reflection of how they did, and revising hiring practices based on that, which happens. But it would be odd to immediately reject a 4.0, agree.
I look at a resume holistically. If someone has 3.8+ GPA with a lot of ECs, good internships and personable then I am really impressed. If someone has 4.0 GPA, but with very little ECs then not so much. I have hired someone with 2.8 GPA and he turned out to be one of my best (smartest) employees. He came from a complicated family background and had a hard time adjusting to college life. I took a chance on him and he didn’t disappoint.
I tend to stay away from people who are just book smart because often in life it is more important to have common sense and be good problem solvers.
During an interview, I would often casually ask applicants what they like to do during their spare time. Often time they would think I was just chit chatting, but I am trying to figure out if I would like to spend time with the person.
I have done a lot of hiring of fresh and recent college grads. (hiring +/- 5 fresh grads each spring) I certainly have my own biases. (financial field) This is something I have mused over for 15+ years, so the thread title attracted me.
The B/B+ GPA typically ended up with a far more successful 5-year career path than the 4.0 (or close) employee. On the whole the B/B+ get promoted faster and ultimately higher than their 4.0 counterparts.
The one quality that no one here has mentioned which surprises me is the quality that I believe really separates the 4.0 vs the B/B+ : the freedom to fail.
That B+ student has already learned how to not only fail (defined as getting a B or even a C) but also how to pick up the pieces, re-group, assess and forge ahead. Also tend to be more able to quickly identify an area where they need assistance and ask for it.
Many 4.0 hires had never learned that. Come across their first big work challenge, missed goal, missed forecast and they stall or worse. They had not learned in all their schooling how to fail and push forward, nor as likely to flag for help when they need it.
This is not an absolute and certainly doesn’t apply to all. But in general as a department head hiring econ/math/accounting majors, I see greater professional success from the B/B+ grads than the 4.0 hires.
(as I graduated Summa myself, not a personal ax to grind here)
I agree with the above poster about the freedom to fail.
I know a family who crafted college class choices strictly around maintaining an A average. If a class was interesting but the student would likely get a B+, the class was dropped and substituted with one that the student could sleep walk through. Then of course the GPA was paraded in front of us. “Education” wasn’t the goal.
Even through high school the family was extremely grade focused. Wouldn’t take the AP if the grade wasn’t going to be tops.
So yes. The kids don’t have a lot of resilience for when gives them a challenge. One is semi launched. The other has dropped out of multiple grad school programs.
The kids are very nice and personable and certainly bright. I like them quite a bit but I don’t think their family focus has done them any favors.
edited to add: I think the difference between the launching of the kids is that the semi launched one always had a job even though no internships or industry related work. The grad school drop out has only ever worked for a month or so at a time and no internships. The family truly thinks that the 4.0 is what will impress an employer.