<p>Blah2009 touched on an important point, namely about graduate school. I don’t know the precise make-up of graduate programs based on undergraduate institution (let’s restrict ourselves to US schools) but I can tell you that a majority of the US students come from top 20 schools. Yes, it is very possible to make it to Hopkins Med School or Yale Law from a middle-ranked school. But keep in mind that you’ll probably need close to a 4.0, be at the top of your class, and be the best student any of your professors have ever seen. At Hopkins, this need not be the case. Hopkins actually does pretty well at placing its students in top grad departments outside of medicine (just among people I know in my current class: MIT, Harvard, Stanford, Duke, Hopkins [physics], Stanford [Philosophy], Princeton [Economics, French]; these are not just acceptances, this is where people are actually going). As you can see, we do pretty well. Now, I’m not saying you should take on $100,000 in debt to go to Hopkins, but $20,000 is definitely manageable.</p>
<p>Which would you choose for grad school though–Hopkins with $8K/yr in grants or Swarthmore with $24K/yr in grants? </p>
<p>I don’t understand why the packages were so different.</p>
<p>(I’m not a BME but a humanities major, just to be clear).</p>
<p>To clarify previous post, which would of the two undergrad programs would you choose for the best grad school placement in English Lit or an MFA in writing? I’m thinking the results would be about the same, and Swat was far more generous, with better teaching maybe?</p>
<p>If your goal is an MFA in writing, undergrad school, grades and GRE are all almost meaningless. Your writing sample counts for 95% of whether you get in. Useful information on this is here [The</a> Creative Writing MFA Blog](<a href=“http://creative-writing-mfa-handbook.blogspot.com/]The”>http://creative-writing-mfa-handbook.blogspot.com/)</p>
<p>20k debt is acceptable for number 1 program in the country for BME. 90k no.</p>
<p>Thanks roberthhid, great link! Didn’t know about all those other funded programs.</p>
<p>Sorry about being off the thread for so long guys.</p>
<p>BTW, these are kind of specific to Blah2009, but anyone feel free to discuss.</p>
<p>So what you’re saying is that Hopkins will better prepare me for a competitive MD-PhD program than, say, a state school? Is this true even tough I won’t stand out as much at Hopkins (I would be with the top students in the country)? Wouldn’t this mean that good recommendations would be harder to come by? Also, can you clarify how your specific earning power was increased with Hopkins?</p>
<p>Thanks everyone!</p>
<p>Emphasis on undergraduate research and experiences + Smaller class sizes = better research opportunities = better recommendations = better jobs and better options for grad and/or medical school after graduation. You likely won’t be top of your class at Hopkins, but that’s the point. I was not top of my class, but still made it into top grad schools like my other classmates who either graduated middle of their class or higher at Hopkins (you have to really try at JHU to be at the bottom half of your class - think trying as playing world of warcraft all day instead of going to class). My research and relationship with professors from small class sizes is what really set me a part through my recommendations. You will have a harder time achieving results like this at a state school as there will be more people vying for the professor’s attention and because there’s isn’t such an emphasis on undergraduate research and experiences as at Hopkins (See [Provost’s</a> Undergraduate Research Awards](<a href=“http://web.jhu.edu/administration/provost/pura/]Provost’s”>Provost's Undergraduate Research Awards) , See [Home[/url</a>] , see another brand new undergrad program here: [url=<a href=“http://gazette.jhu.edu/2011/04/18/new-grants-for-ksas-undergrads/]New”>New grants for KSAS undergrads : Gazette Archives]New</a> grants for KSAS undergrads | Johns Hopkins University - The Gazette](<a href=“http://krieger.jhu.edu/woodrowwilson]Home[/url”>Woodrow Wilson Fellowship | Undergraduate Research, Scholarly & Creative Activity | Johns Hopkins University) . It’s free money that will let you do WHATEVER YOU WANT that will also benefit you for grad school and jobs later on. Imagine getting paid to visit or work abroad at someplace you’ve always wanted to visit. You have to realize going to a state school is a risk also. What if you don’t graduate top of your class (there are plenty of people each year who turn down top privates to attend good state schools for monetary reasons along with slackers who hit their stride in college)? It’s far from a given. JHU’s connections run deep in academia and industry through the professors who are integrated with both. You won’t go wrong. </p>
<p>As for earning potential, I was offered 60k (back then and like now, the starting salary was around 45k) as an engineer coming out of Hopkins and will be making 130k after getting my Ph.D. (probably more a function of earning an engineering Ph.D. rather than the specific schools, although Hopkins and Stanford in tandem did make my resume stand out).</p>
<p>So you’re saying that I could pretty much graduate with minimal debt given summer internships/scholarships? Also, do you really think I would have to “try” to be in the bottom half of my class at BME? It’s a really competitive program.</p>
<p>Yes on both accounts. You got into BME didn’t you? that should be reason in and of itself to believe you will do well. You’ll likely be in study groups with your classmates who will help you out, should you not understand something anyways.</p>
<p>kommunitycollege “So you’re saying that I could pretty much graduate with minimal debt given summer internships/scholarships? Also, do you really think I would have to “try” to be in the bottom half of my class at BME? It’s a really competitive program.”</p>
<p>I’m not sure I buy Blah2009’s position on debt and class rank. Nephew is graduating from JHU this May with ChemBME degree. He had internships every summer and his parents are still dealing with debt issues. He has very good grades but had to work extremely hard for them. I seriously doubt that you can be in the top half of any college class simply by not playing World of Warcraft all day. </p>
<p>BTW - first and second year classes were huge…about the same as you would expect at a large state university. Campus food is terrible and overpriced. More importantly the labs at JHU are not worldclass. Yes, JHU has prestige but I wonder whether they are trading on that a bit too much. Hopefully the JHU name will help in admission to a quality PHD program because he’s still trying to get a job. I can tell you that his parents really wish he had gone to State U.</p>
<p>This is relative. if you want to have “very good” grades, you will need to work hard for them in engineernig, at any college. But being in the top half of your class? Your grades just have to be ok, getting Bs or B+ in your classes (doing the homework sets and getting slightly below average on the tests) would ensure this. While you have one anecdotal case, the chem e department newsletter suggests otherwise. If he had internships as you say he did, he shouldn’t have a problem finding a job. A lot of internships lead to full time job offers if the student does well after all. That’s kind of the point of an internship.</p>
<p>In fact, this completely contradicts your anecdote:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.jhu.edu/careers/students/explore/pgsmajors/2005-2009%20major%20break%20out/All%20Majors/ChemBE%202005-2009.pdf[/url]”>http://www.jhu.edu/careers/students/explore/pgsmajors/2005-2009%20major%20break%20out/All%20Majors/ChemBE%202005-2009.pdf</a></p>
<p>(only 2 seniors were looking for jobs in 2009 out of a 66% response rate). And look at the grad schools graduates are attending on the next page as well.</p>
<p>Your stats are informative but the data is based upon 2009 not 2011 graduates. In 2009 roughly 1 out of 3 students had a full time job upon graduation. Fully 60% were planning to attend grad school (whether by choice or based upon market conditions is unclear). Can you conclude that there are very good job prospects out of JHU when only one third of students get jobs? Or, do you conclude that JHU prepares BME students well for additional graduate/PHD study?</p>
<p>you’ve thus far provided no numerical data to support your stance that JHU doesn’t help with finding a job. Only a single data point that’s questionable. yes, this data was for 2009, but the economy down turn started in 2007. I will assume it’s stayed the same. According to the survey, almost no one is looking for a job. That’s what’s important. But we can conclude JHU graduates are still finding jobs and still attending top graduate schools. Do you really think the graduates are being “forced” to attend grad schools like MIT, UPenn, Cornell, Caltech? hardly, as these are schools most people dream about attending, even more so with greater competition if the economy is bad. These also aren’t schools that students can decide to attend randomly, “in case the economy is bad”. Only serious contenders displaying a research background and top academics apply, let alone get in, to these types of programs. </p>
<p>Let’s look at what might have happened if he went to a state school, like Virginia Tech for chem e (74% of respondents surveryed responded):</p>
<p>[Virginia</a> Tech Post Graduation Report: Full Report](<a href=“http://www.career.vt.edu/scripts/PostGrad2006/Report/PostGraduationReportByMCU.asp?College=05&Major=CHE&Cohort=2008-2009&SortBy=]Virginia”>http://www.career.vt.edu/scripts/PostGrad2006/Report/PostGraduationReportByMCU.asp?College=05&Major=CHE&Cohort=2008-2009&SortBy=)</p>
<p>A full 21% are seeking jobs while 21% are going to grad school. Guess the first 21% didn’t have the luxury of a good grad school, let alone a top grad school.</p>
<p>2% unemployed vs 21%, I think we can all do the math.</p>
<p>As a BME alum, I can tell you that it’s not a cake walk. Your classmates in the program will be extremely smart kids, and you won’t be able to breeze by like many BME students did in high school. The work is certainly not easy by any means, and with a group of very smart classmates, you’re going to have really smart kids that fall in the lower half of the class. That said, the work is hard for everyone and students end up supporting each other and working together to get through problem sets and exam studying. What matters in the long run are going to be your final grades (not your BME rank, which isn’t even on your transcript) and everything else you do in college (ie research, internships etc). </p>
<p>
I would strongly argue with this assertion. Hopkins “prestige” in the BME arena is based on peer scoring/evaluation, which I believe is highly affected by research reputation. The labs at Hopkins are truly among the leaders in their fields, and I bet that most people in BME academia have heard of the likes of Jennifer Elisseeff, David Yue, Artin Shoukas, Nitish Thakor etc etc if they’re doing research in the same fields as those researchers. I’ll admit I know little about pure-chemical engineering research, so I can’t tell you if the same is true there, but I do know that Hopkins BME has many very strong labs, all of which are open to undergraduates</p>
<p>
The trend of about 1/3 of BME graduate going into industry while another 1/3 go to medical school and the last 1/3 go to grad school has been steady for many years. Hopkins, in all disciplines, has a very academic focus, and I felt like there was a focus on getting students ready for further graduate work. I highly suspect that “only” 1/3 of BME grads get jobs because only 1/3 of BME grads are looking for jobs. I doubt that many Hopkins BME grads went to grad school because of poor job prospects; on the other hand, I know several that went into industry, either because they wanted to wait a year or two before applying to med/grad school, or they didn’t get into the very very top med/grad schools that they were shooting for. I remember my class being surveyed at the end of our freshman year about out initial thoughts on post-grad plans, and even then, no where near half the students were thinking about going into industry. I think Hopkins, at least in BME, attracts a very academic, research oriented group of students and cultivates them into future graduate students (granted, they realize that some students want to go into industry, and there’s a person who’s the “industry liason” whose coordinates different companies’ visits to campus, so for those who do want to go into industry, it’s certain possible and not discouraged)</p>
<p>tanman, we’re talking about the less difficult biomolecular engineering program in the chemical engineering program, not biomedical. same acronym, however. Nonetheless, I agree with points made in your second post.</p>
<p>tanman, I am sure BME program at Johns Hopkins is one of the best in the world and the best in the country. Having been there, would recommand paying 170K extra for this program?</p>
<p>A friend of mine said that Hopkins BME graduates have a considerable advantage in med school admissions. This could mean med school scholarships and may balance out the 20k debt in the long run.</p>
<p>Blah2009 writes “2% unemployed (at VA Tech) vs 21%, I think we can all do the math.”</p>
<p>Sure, but you do realize we are talking about a difference of only five students between the two universities? The annual difference is cost between JHU and Va Tech (in-state) is roughly $37k. Perhaps for some students the difference over 4 years would be considerably less than $148k. For those students that want to pursue graduate studies JHU seems to prepare its students well. </p>
<p>I don’t have any first hand experience on the labs at JHU. I’m just repeating what I was told when he was able to see the lab facilities at a different university (for summer research internship).</p>