<p>Right now, I'm in the process of deciding whether or not I want to enroll at Hopkins for chemical and biomolecular engineering. I know that Hopkins has world-class academics, but am a little concerned about the overly-competitive atmosphere I have heard about. Could anyone shed some light on the legitimacy of this cut-throat nature? Also, I've heard that Hopkins doesn't have grade inflation like mostly all other schools in its caliber. I have read that some students feel that they are working HARDER for LOWER grades than kids at comparable universities, which could potentially hurt their grad school chances. I have also been accepted at Bucknell as a Presidential Fellow and am wondering if this liberal arts path might be better for me,(i.e. professors actually know you, less T.A.s...), especially since Bucknell has a great engineering program. However, I am also drawn to the opportunities and prestige of a larger research university such as Hopkins. Thanks!</p>
<p>My sister was admitted to the BME program. Her year they took about 100 kids (don’t quote me) and she told me about 40% of the people switched to another engineering major or totally switched gears. Infact, my sister is graduating with a public policy major. Her reason for switching majors was that yes, she found it difficult and she would study all the time, but she found that engineering wasn’t something she wanted to pursue as a career. </p>
<p>But generally, JHU students who enter in as engineers are serious about designing and have really thought about becoming engineers or working in the realm of design. So in that sense, students are very driven which is what makes the atmosphere competitive. And engineering majors are one of the most challenging majors. And specifically at JHU, the professors try to tear you down and build you up as someone who can analytically think about solutions instead of plugging in numbers in formulas and spitting out theorems. That means no (or very little?) grade inflation. </p>
<p>If you are worried about this (as am I) I have been told to take minimum courses per semester. There is nothing wrong with only taking lets say 4-5 instead of 6 courses per semester (as long as you fufill graduation requirements) to get better grades or be able to divide your time more liberally between your classes. Also, take humanities courses! I love politics and English and art! These classes require work (papers, essay-based tests, etc) but they can at times help raise your GPA if you are interested in the topics and are determined to do the readings for the class.</p>
<p>My Hopkins advice:</p>
<p>1) Don’t be scared, be open minded. There will be brilliant minds around you so be open to learning from them as they are open to learning from you. </p>
<p>2) Hopkins is very collaborative and people care a lot about learning. Most people find this experience very stimulating and enlightening.</p>
<p>3) the myth of competitiveness lives on as tales of old, from the 1970’s. The school is very different now, it’s 2010. </p>
<p>4) Hopkins is a fabulous place full of creative minds so take yours there and you’ll be fine. Be prepared to work hard because Hopkins is a place that cultivates talent and it’s very different from high school. They teach you how to think and problem solve, think away from the traditional ways. It’s not always comfortable but it’s very useful</p>
<p>Good luck - Hopkins is a great place.</p>
<p>1) In my personal opinion, the supposed over-competitiveness and cut-throat nature that seniors fear in places like JHU is just a myth. Sure, in most places, your grades are compared to the mean score to see if you get an A, B, C, etc, but in reality, you’re not really competing against them, you’re competing against yourself. </p>
<p>In every class here, the students were not cut-throat at all. Everyone helps each other out on HW, tests, finals, etc. In a way, everyone depends on each other. </p>
<p>2) I have no real idea what grade inflation in other schools are, but I’ll tell you how grading works. In smaller classes (specifically writing classes), you’re graded subjectively on merit similar to how English classes in high school are. In bigger classes with lecture hall, there is a distribution for HW, tests, and finals. For tests, most likely, your grade depends on how you do compared to the mean score.</p>
<p>For example, in my Transport Phenomena class, the grade distribution was like this:
The average for the exam was a 39.7 out of 65. The standard deviation was 11.3. Letter grades were calculated by the following formula: </p>
<p>X = [(your score)-(average score)]/[std. dev.].</p>
<p>X > 1.2 A+
X > 0.8 A
X > 0.4 A-
X > 0 B+
X > -0.4 B
X > -0.8 B-
X > -1.2 C+
X > -1.6 C
X > -2.0 C-
X > -2.4 D+
X > -2.8 D
X > -3.2 D-
X < -3.2 F</p>
<p>In most classes, you really don’t know what specifically what grade you have, but you know generally how you’re doing. (i.e.) 20 points above the mean is usually an A</p>
<p>3) In some classes, it is true. You work harder for silly 1-2 credits that don’t mean much. Such is the example of Chem Lab. That’s why it’s good, in general, to use your AP credits and get away from the intro classes. Intro classes are the most annoying in terms of work load. </p>
<p>Next, I’m also in the BME program. In the past lots of people switched out, but I believe the trend is less now since you have to specify BME when you apply. </p>
<p>By the way, 6 classes is A LOT per semester. 4-5 classes is the norm. Personally, I hate taking the minimum classes per semester. It gets pretty boring. </p>
<p>Hopkins is really nice, especially in the Spring. If you can, take a visit. Take a look at labs, dorms, dining halls, etc</p>
<p>^ yeah honestly you dont hear any cutthroat crap at hopkins. i had the same reservations while i was looking at hopkins in hs, but it is just rumors. people work together here… i just finished a hw assignment thanks to the magical wonders of collaboration! and i do this all the time. also, just got back from mse studying with friends for my exam. the library is packed with people working on proj, papers, and studying for tests. it was nearly impossible finding group study areas because people work in those areas most frequently. working alone is necessary at times, but group study is very productive when done right (i.e. learn on your own, come together to review and explain concepts so you find your own weaknesses, address misconceptions).</p>
<p>grade deflation only occurs at princeton and other school where there is a cap on how many people can get A’s. grade inflation is trickier in that all schools have easy classes, but some like brown have policies that support higher gpas (like taking any class p/f).</p>
<p>hopkins does not have inflation or deflation.</p>
<p>and yes it’s been so beautiful out lately! today in particular was PERFECT in terms of temperature, lack of humidity, and amount of sunshine.</p>
<p>love that good weather!!</p>
<p>@SOZO91</p>
<p>Oh My Goodness…I was feeling good about Hopkins until I read your post and realized that I have NO IDEA WHAT ALL THAT MATH STUFF IS ABOUT!!! Seriously, just to understand the grade system you describe I would need to go back to college!
LOL. :)</p>
<p>Kidding of course, but really, really glad I am no longer in school. D leaves in the morning to visit campus again. Lets hope for clear skies, loads of frisbees, a group of oddly intense and passionate students, a few profs she can chat with, and at least one hippie with a guitar.</p>
<p>@dadwonders</p>
<p>He’s talking about standard deviation (STD). A simplified explanation would be to say that STD is a measure of distance from the mean score in the class, or in other words it is the answer to the question, “How spread out is the data?” So say the average score for a test is 30 points, that would be the mean. Next lets say that for this particular test the average difference in score per test taker is 5 points. If that was the case, then the STD is 5 points. See, not so bad, right?</p>
<p>So on a simple curve you’d have:</p>
<p>A = 40
B = 35
C = 30 <– Average Score
D = 25
F = 20</p>
<p>What Hopkins seems to be doing is creating a simple formula to make the Standard Deviation (STD) more applicable to the + and - grading systems. The reason for this is that 2 standard deviations will usually give you 95% of the data, and that’s not enough categories to cover all of the various grades that are possible.</p>
<p>@phear_me</p>
<p>Not that it makes a huge difference to me, as it is still above my head…But:
If the average was an 80, and the average difference per test taker is 5 points, then </p>
<p>90+=A
85-89=B
80-85=C
75-79=D
70-74=F</p>
<p>Does that mean that in any class, the average student will get a C, and half the class will get C’s, D’s and F’s?</p>
<p>geez thats harsh grading.</p>
<p>dadwonders, I’ve never seen that type of grading system used in any class where the average grade was around 80%. Rather, I’ve seen it in classes where averages were, for example 50%. The system allows the professor to set a mean score (a B+ for example) and distribute the grades around that score. Using the z-value cutoffs from the first post, anyone who scores 0.4 standard deviations above the mean gets an A-, anyone who scores between 0.4 and 0.8 standard deviations below the mean gets a B- and so on.</p>
<p>1081736, I’ve never been in a class where the scoring was any worse than the normal letter grading system (A = 90%+, B= 80%+ etc). If anything, professors adjust grading to lower the threshold for letter grades.</p>
<p>Tanman…</p>
<p>Would it be reasonable then to expect a good student to maintain a 3.0 average then, or would that be a ‘great’ student. (non-medical/non-engineering).</p>
<p>university-wide gpa average is ~ 3.24</p>
<p>I even think the average GPA at graduation is something like a 3.35 or 3.40 or so someone told me a while back.</p>
<p>So a B+. That’s fair, I thought that is what is was at most places.</p>
<p>Yea, the average is usually set to a B-, but you never see a case where someone is curved down. In those scenarios, there won’t be a curve, like in my Java class ~ avg = 85ish.</p>
<p>@dadwonders</p>
<p>I was just using arbitrary numbers for an example, and so I set the average (mean) grade to a C to make it easier to understand. By contrast, and as others have pointed out, the professor can set the average to whatever he/she wants (B+, C, etc.). Additionally, Hopkins doesn’t use the z-score/normal distribution type curve method as you can seesozo91’s post, I was just explaining how standard deviation works. It all sounds a bit complicated, but once you wrap your head around it makes sense.</p>
<p>@original poster…sorry to have hijacked this thread.</p>
<p>@phear_me…See, this is the problem with having a kid that is smarter than me. She’d understand it… :)</p>
<p>There is noooooo grade DEflation here. at all. the school curves like normal schools do, so in chem the avg get bumped up to a b, in organic chem its usually b-, so it’s not really C+ anymore like schools used to do. And each professor curves differently. There is never a curve where your grade is HURT by it.</p>
<p>Now, people worry about lack of grade INflation, to which I say…an A at JHU means way more than an A at places where there is grade inflation. ;)</p>
<p>will med and grad schools see this (the last sentence) the same way?</p>
<p>i have the same concern as wwjbd24… i heard the law schools care mostly about GPA, and not so much where that gpa was achieved. If that’s even somewhat true, i would be much better served going to a state school and getting a 4.0 rather than a 3.0 at hopkins.</p>