<p>Just go and look. Here's one from a brochure Columbia U sent me:</p>
<p>"[international] candidates should be aware that their applications are read in a more selective process than are other candidates'."</p>
<p>Or Cornell:</p>
<p>"Cornell University maintains only a very limited program of financial assistance for international students who are not citizens or permanent residents of the United States, Canada, or Mexico. "</p>
<p>Is college FA part of NAFTA?-_-</p>
<p>I thought being int'l for top UCs was an disadvantage b/c UCs favor in-state students</p>
<p>it is! Instate>out of state> int'l,.</p>
<p>FastMed, the only reason that works in your situation is that the international student is just excellent. Only the top in the world could get to a elite college while for Americans it's not the case (much easier). However, for colleges that are not top-tiered, international status "might" help a bit in admissions, but have great disadvantage in scholarships/aids.</p>
<p>I believe I made it clear that the international was of low academic ability. The only thing they get hurt in is financial aid. Berkeley is not that bad. It is still a decent college. The internationals from my school have to pay the hefty oos price though, but they got in with the worst grades (like 3.8 weighted and like 1800 sat, 800 chinese sat and like 750 math iic)</p>
<p>I went to a Berkeley campus tous last Winter.
They had an acedemic session after the tour, and I asked them about the acceptance rate. </p>
<p>International students have about 1/5 acceptance rate compared to in state students (probably lower).</p>
<p>For example, at MIT, the class of 10, </p>
<p>US Students: 13~14%
Intl: 4%</p>
<p>wow that's harsh</p>
<p>whoa that's harsh</p>
<p>sigh... more re-assurance? lol...
i'm a intl. student, too. kinda worried.</p>
<p>will it still hurt my chances even if i don't ask for fiancial aid?</p>
<p>International students have about 1/5 acceptance rate compared to in state students (probably lower).</p>
<p>It is lower by like 2%. Berkeley instate acceptance rate is like 23.6%.</p>
<p>Not very significant.</p>
<p>ahh i seee</p>
<p>by 1/5, I mean in state acceptance rate / 5.</p>
<p>23.6 /5 = 4.7...</p>
<p>
[quote]
In Korea, with Min Jok Sa Kwan School making its best of the best students apply to all the top colleges, Korean student in the U.S. don't really stand a chance.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is the kind of logic that ticks me off.</p>
<p>I have no idea what this Min Jok Sa Kwon school is...but I can garuantee you that no college would only accept from this school. They want variety, people from lots of diverse backgrounds. So a poor Korean girl who somehow managed to work her way up to some level of education would probably stand a better chance than more than half of Min Jok Sa whatever's graduating class.</p>
<p>Min Jok Sa Kwan is probably better than Phillips Andover</p>
<p>Min Jok Sa Kwan (aka 민족사관) is probably one of the best, if not, the best school in Korea (top Ivy and top schools feeder HS)</p>
<p>Doesn't matter. It seems to be a fad in korea to train drones. They may have nice stats etc, but they have no mind.</p>
<p>
[quote]
My public high school has a lot of kids from Taiwan and Korea who applied as internationals. They tend to get in much more easily than natives despite their atrocious grades.
[/quote]
Are you sure these people are truly "internationals" ... and not California residents? If they are citizens or premanent residents and live in California for a while, they are counted as California residents ... and thus under the in-state quota and benefited from the 4% rule.</p>
<p>I doubt if your schoolmates are truely international students. Statistics is not on your side. UC-Berkeley accepted a total of 95 international freshmen last year (data from Cal Common Data Set 2005-06). Do you know how many international students applying to Cal each year? Many of those are real smart students with nearly perfect SAT scores.</p>
<p>Hmmm. Well, they tell me that they apply as internationals. And also when I say a lot, I just mean like 10 cause only around like 20% of my school is like taiwan/korea born. and our senior class is like 300 people. and some of them go to taiwan for college. </p>
<p>I doubt they are anywhere near the top 4%. They would be lucky to get in the top 30%, but then again like 20% of our school manages to get into bkereley.</p>
<p>At many schools, international applicants from Asia and Asian-Americans (US citizens and permanent residents) are tabulated separately, so AA won't hurt a student applying from Korea as much as it will a Korean American applying from California or New Jersey. Generally being international doesn't give you an edge in admissions unless the school you're applying to has a very low number of international students.</p>
<p>Of course, it is not easier to get into an US college/university for foreigner than for locals. There are several reasons for that.</p>
<p>Besides the quotas which are really hard to beat, also restrictions, rules, and the US applications process are not supportative at all. Let's go through it from the beginning.</p>
<p>Everything starts with timing. In the US, you need to know I've been an exchange student to the US for a year, college awareness and applications start way earlier. First off, parents are in your back. You do not necessarialy need to be the best in organizing, most US parents want their kids to go to good schools so badly, they will make you go and do things in the timing necessary, especially since they know the system from their own times, at least in most college cases. Also, highschool always gives you hints what and when to do, especially since you've got things such as counselors. In most countries, and I am also talking about the western world of the European Union, such things do not exist. It is only you who has to get things done and has the responsibility. Noone else.</p>
<p>Next point, but still timing. US colleges expect you to work in their time frame. In most countries, students do not have a laid back senior year, they have huge exams about everything they've ever done in school and more at the end of their highschool time. Those are huge and eat your time, because you cannot fail on then or have bad ones. They are way to important! But how shall anyone fit in ACT/SAT/TOEFL/whatever dates in there? Especially it is very hard to get a date anyways since spots are usually taken by US military kids! That's especially an disadvantage for western kids, as funny as it sounds. But more on that later!</p>
<p>Let's talk about costs. Applications fees are huge, especially if you apply to more than just one school. Tests cost, too, and foreigners have to pay higher fees on occasions. Sending letters and getting documents officially translated is very expensive as well.</p>
<p>Especially those things are tough. Even though you come from a major language region which is lingua france in huge parts of the world (such as French, German, Spanish), every tiny document needs to be officially translated. It is not like someone from Penn's admission office once said: "Ehm, just go to your city hall". The world does not talk English because the US is so important. Noone in a Swiss city hall will translate anything for you. So, you need to go to an official translater and pay a few Euro for each line.</p>
<p>I thought it was interesting when you guys were talking about which nations have better chances or worse. In my opinion, there are two sides to that. On the one hand, western people have more money and some things are easier to organize since things such as phones, internet and copies are easier to get. But to equal that out, we do have to take all these standart American tests since colleges think English is all our language and it's standart to take SATs. So, you got to find your next US military base and get a seat at one of these testings which is always very hard to get and most likely not in time. By the way, yes, foreign test scores do matter in the same way as if they were by locals. Same thing for secondary school grades, even though in a lot of countries they are given in different ways. 100% is a 'B' in some countries, ie, since it is thought that 'A's are only for work above full score. That just as a side note.</p>
<p>Now, after all those words, what's the conclusion? It is hard for foreigners. We just clash into all rules that universities give us no matter whether they are doable or not. Exept for Ivy schools, noone is willing to give us financial aid and state schools have ivy prices for foreigners since we are no tax payers.</p>
<p>Sometimes I wonder who are the foreigners who get in. I only know people who are foreign-national champions in athletics, have rich/famous parents, or are permanent residents and lived in the US for a longer while.</p>
<p>I like the US education system a lot, but sometimes it appears as it likes us the most for diversity statistics.</p>