<p>Parent of Ivy Hope - why is it “wrong to first encourage children to apply hoping that aid will be sufficient and then backing out because aid was not sufficient”? Are these kids such delicate blossoms that they can’t cope with taking a chance and possibly being disappointed later? And how do parents make their children fall in love with a college? Not the same as making them accept some realities/limitations. We told both our kids that they could apply where they liked but in the absence of a miracle they’d be going to the state university. Fortunately, that didn’t cause either of them any anguish or resentment, which I realize is not the case for everyone, and they absolutely understood it.</p>
<p>why is it “wrong to first encourage children to apply hoping that aid will be sufficient and then backing out because aid was not sufficient”?</p>
<p>I wouldn’t “encourage” a child to apply to such schools, BUT if my child wanted to apply to a couple of “what if” schools, that would be fine AS LONG AS there was a firm agreement that if the aid didn’t include at least XXXX amount ( without loans), it would be declined. I might even have my kid put that in writing… LOL</p>
<p>I think the key is clear and continual communication, so no one is blind-sided/misled/feels ripped off. Most things in life have constraints and contingencies, just like acceptances and FA. Life is like that. No one is going to die if they don’t get into X, and contrary to what kids might think, they really can be as happy at Y and Z school too (maybe even moreso!).</p>
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<p>I think that’s exactly what most of us are saying. Tell your kid what you can pay for, and then if the fin. aid package comes back with large loans, cross that school off your list.</p>
<p>Wow I feel so special that everyone is trying to figure out my life so they can rationalize my opinion… Not.
My birthday must be wrong because I am 22, a college senior recently accepted to graduate school but have taken a few grad courses on the side already. Yes my parents spent a lot of money (not all loans) on my education which I did not socially enjoy but feel it was worth it and they will continue to pay my expenses. They do have the resources since I am the only one they have to pay for, so no, I have no idea what the payments will be on my loans because I will never see them. My parents didn’t get to go to college so they are giving me what they never had. I think the woman who said that you should only apply to schools you can pay for instead of saying no once you’re in had it right. I was just saying that if it really makes the difference between going or not (or going to a better school that will give them better opportunities) then you should co-sign a loan if that’s what your option is.</p>
<p>^^^
your case is different. You haven’t had your parents co-sign for loans that you’ll have to pay back. They are completely responsible for them.</p>
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<p>the important part is:
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<p>Wow… I don’t even have anything else to say. Just, wow. And when do you intend to become an adult?</p>
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<p>Absolutely agree with calmom on this! </p>
<p>If you think it is worth the money and you can afford it, borrow the money yourself. If you really can’t afford to borrow the money, you won’t be able to afford to pay back the loan when it comes knocking at your door. Sometimes cosigned loans do return, like the taste of a lunchtime enchilada on an evening burp.</p>
<p>Just because my parents paid for my education doesn’t impede my ability to become an adult. I will be working and paying part of my expenses but it simply isn’t doable for me(and many others) in this economy to be completely fiancially independent and going to graduate school at such a young age. I am doing so because it is what I need to do in order to get a decent paying job in my field so that I may be able to support myself. Frankly that was a very rude and un-adult comment but thank you for assuming you know everything about my life and judging me on your silly standards of what constitutes being an adult.</p>
<p>Socnerd, you drew negative comments because some of us are appalled at your audacity and sense of entitlement. You have apparently not invested a single dime in your undergraduate education. You have not expressed any gratitude toward your parents for investing $200K in your education, much of which they had to borrow – and continuing to fund you through grad school – but instead want to lecture other parents on what they owe their children. </p>
<p>And then you make this statement: “it simply isn’t doable for me(and many others) in this economy to be completely financially independent and going to graduate school at such a young age. I am doing so because it is what I need to do in order to get a decent paying job in my field so that I may be able to support myself” – as if your parents simply have no choice but to underwrite your continuing education.</p>
<p>Well my daughter is graduating this year, too – she is not going to grad school right away, since she does have all those loans and does need to support herself from here on out. She is going to go out and find a way to be self-supporting <i>in this economy</i>. (She assures me that she already has a couch lined up after she has to leave the college dorm – she plans to stay on the east coast, so it’s not my couch.) She doesn’t have a job yet – but she’s working on it. </p>
<p>The fact that you perceive supporting yourself as “undoable” or believe that you can’t get a “decent” paying job without a graduate degree does say something about your level of maturity. I think we would all agree that a master’s degree will enhance career prospects, but that certainly doesn’t preclude someone with a bachelor’s from earning a living wage. </p>
<p>I don’t think anyone has truly crossed the threshold to adulthood until they are self-supporting. Age doesn’t matter – my son was supporting himself at age 20 – my daughter is almost 22 and hasn’t quite made that transition. I think my daughter is extremely mature emotionally and quite sophisticated, but there is a difference between dependency and self-sufficiency.</p>
<p>The reason I asked about the amount of loan payments was because I had the mistaken impression that your parents had “cosigned” loans for you, based on your comments that other parents should do that. Obviously they didn’t – they took out loans in their own names. While I and other posters have been cautioning the OP against co-signing because of the possible financial consequences to him, when a parent “cosigns” the student is the primary borrower, and would be responsible for making payments. Since you clearly don’t understand what that arrangement entails, either in terms of the burden on the student or the possible unintended consequences to parents… you certainly should not be telling parents what they should do. Certainly if you are not taking on loans yourself, you have no business telling other people that they should borrow.</p>
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I’m sure it does stink, but that’s not the discussion parents should have. It shouldn’t be that “we can afford this school” but it should be “we can afford $X dollars per year (realizing that costs go up every year). If the particular school gives you enough aid so that we only have to pay $X we can consider it.”</p>
<p>Again, I really appreciate everyone assuming they know everything about my life and who I am (enough to insult me) from a few posts that were obviously misinterpreted. I’m sure it is pointless to try to explain myself at this point because I seem to have become a scapegoat but I just want to point out that I am not ungrateful for what my parents have done for me. I never said I was, I never said I felt “entitled” to the education my parents have paid for or that I’m forcing them to pay for graduate studies. It is something they are doing because they have the resources and want to give me the best chance at a good job in my field. I’m sure it would be possible to get some kind of employment right out of college but for me, in my particular field of study, it would be much more worthwhile to spend these early years still in school rather than take a job barely above minimum wage. I will be working, at least part-time and probably full-time while attending grad school full time and I will be paying as much of my expenses as possible. I never just expected my parents to pay for everything, it is something they have always offered to do and I am very grateful for that.
I suppose my point about the co-signing was different, yes I have co-signed loans, not with my parents but with my aunt because her finances are better, so I understand the relationship. It was put to me that I would be doing this in my name but that it would not be my primary responsibility to pay it back. I’m sorry if I come from a supportive family that paid for my education and if the fact that I “haven’t contributed a dime to my education” makes me a lazy, no-good, ungrateful brat well then I guess that’s what you’d consider me. Frankly these opinions matter little to me, I have bigger and more important things to deal with in my life. My only and original point was, I think parents should try to give their kids the best education possible and if that means co-signing a loan I think it’s worth it. Everyone’s situation is different and if a parent didn’t want to co-sign a loan for good reasons then they have to make those decisions on their own, it doesn’t make anyone a better or worse parent. Obviously my opinion is worthless because of the assumptions everyone has made about me so just ignore me and carry on.</p>
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<p>I’m not going to comment on the rest of the comments, but I think this one might be a little unfair, if only because I know there are some fields that do need a master’s to get the decent paying jobs.</p>
<p>Yurtle, assuming that the “field” needs a master’s to get a “decent” paying job… what is to prevent the college grad from taking alternate employment? College isn’t vocational training – there are many, many jobs available where the employer prefers a candidate with a bachelor’s degree but doesn’t care what field. </p>
<p>It seems to me that your comment as well as Socnerd’s really betrays a significant level of immaturity or lack of sophistication – or perhaps lack of real-world work experience – because I don’t think any young person with a significant level of work experience would make such an assertion. </p>
<p>I think that its fine if parents have the resources and want to support their kids through college and grad school – but a lot of parents don’t have those resources, and I think that it is also valuable for parents to help kids, early on, develop the work ethic and skills that lead toward self-sufficiency. </p>
<p>My point is that I don’t hear “I can’t” or “it’s impossible” type of statements from my offspring, but that seems to be what both you and Socnerd are saying. Yes its tough – I get that – but that’s not the same as having no choice. It also is a factor that reflects maturity – because most of us parents have spent at least part of our lives making do with what we had as opposed to what we wished we had. </p>
<p>This thread is about cosigning for loans – and while Socnerd apparently has a rich aunt who is willing to both cosign and take full responsibility for payment – for the rest of the world, “cosigning” usually means that the student is expected to make the payments, with the parents or other cosigners acting as a guarantor for the lender if the student defaults or falls behind. Students don’t need co-signers for Stafford loans – just for private loans-- so usually when they are looking for a co-signer, that means they are taking on debt in excess of the maximum allowed under Stafford. As a parent, I think that is too much debt for the student, especially for a student who lacks the skills or confidence to become self-supporting at college graduation, when the loans will become due. (Even if Stafford loans can be deferred during grad school, that is not necessarily true of private loans – and generally interest is accruing and compounding for any private loans if payment is deferred in any way).</p>
<p>So some parents give money to their kids, other’s help their kids become self-sufficient by the time they are in their early 20s. And part of the road to self-sufficiency is too avoid saddling the kid with too much debt, as well as gradually shifting the burden of self-support to the offspring through the college years.</p>
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<p>Did I make the the assertation she has to work in that field? No, I did not. In fact, all I said was that it was probably unfair to tell Socnerd whether or not they’d need a Master’s to work in their field. Since I never said anything beyond that “Well, maybe to get a job in her field that is above an internship, they <em>do</em> need a master’s to be a marketable job applicant.” </p>
<p>Did I say they had to have a master’s for any job? No. Did I say work would be easy? No.
Perhaps you should rethink pulling me into the label of ‘unsophisticated’. It’s unfair, and unnecessary to belittle me just because I pointed something out. I don’t know what Socnerd wants to do; what field they’re going into, and since their life isn’t mine, the comparision is more than insulting.</p>
<p>I’m not naive, I know there are plenty of options. I also know that there are good reasons to have a MA behind yourself in some careers. I’m also aware that an MA can be delayed, and someone can work in both fields, or volunteer in one, while working a better paying job in another, and so on, and so on. </p>
<p>Please don’t make this about my maturity. I’m not the one getting getting a full ride on Mommy and Daddy’s bill through both undergrad and grad school.</p>
<p>Wow I had no idea that having a parent pay for school automatically made you such a bad person. Guess I am really just a worthless little brat who will never grow up and couldn’t possibly understand or be mature enough to become an adult. Or maybe I understand that some people’s points of view are skewed because they just believe what they want to believe about whatever you’re saying and everyone needs to bring someone down. Thanks, this has been an exercise in learning how judgmental and petty people can be and how to ignore them.</p>
<p>Geez. This is the parent’s thread. You guys come in fussing and whining, and then freak out in the face of criticism. If you want to be treated as adults, it might help to try to act like grownups.</p>
<p>I’m sorry but the “criticism” I’ve received seems more like attacking my character and who I am as a person while knowing nothing about me and I don’t think that was a very adult response from anyone. If standing up for myself and having a problem with people being so rude and assuming things about me that aren’t true makes me “not an adult” then I guess I’m not. I know I’m young and I still have a lot to experience, and I guess being online makes it easier to make assumptions about people and say hurtful things. I hope everyone enjoyed cutting me down, I know I have to grow up and get ready for an entire world of people who will do so, so thanks.</p>
<p>Just forget it.</p>
<p>I am so grateful that my children are doing everything they can to pay for their education. We can cover it and have told them so, but they take a lot of pride in doing it for them selves. </p>
<p>We won’t co-sign loans, but our children wouldn’t take them out or expect us to co-sign to start with. Our son has chosen the military route to finish his college after exhausting his savings the first year of school (full-tuition scholarship helped) and our daughter has worked hard to get a full-ride. She could easily choose to go to a higher ranked school on our dollar, but she likes being self-sufficient. I guess it boils down to how a child is raised - to be self-sufficient or to be taken care of.</p>
<p>My concern with young people who are completely taken care of and have the attitude of “where would I get the money…” is that they will tend to always run back home when the normal pitfalls in life make money tight. I have seen it happen too many time with too many kids.</p>
<p>Wow I’m really glad I wasn’t the daughter of any of these parents, refusing to co-sign on a loan so your kid can go to college?</p>
<p>Socnerd…your opening remark was a wide-sweeping criticism of the many parents that YOU don’t know anything about…you don’t know anyone’s financial situation, the number of children that they are trying to get thru college, etc. Some of the adults here are single parents, widowed parents, out-of-work, or under-employed.</p>
<p>You then repeatedly act insulted for people assuming that they know anything about you and how dare they comment about you. Well, your opening remark about us was insulting and was done without knowing anything about any parent here. </p>
<p>If you can’t handle what happens in the sandbox, don’t throw sand first.</p>