i do, too, in general, but sometimes i wonder if HYP, instead of being so much better than all the rest, aren’t really worse…(no offense to any student/alums/aspirants…i wanted to go to all 3 of those schools :))
seriously, other than name-recognition and prestige, what is so powerful and alluring about these schools? Sure, the professors are great, but, in the midst of all the research they do, do they actually have time to teach? The resources (labs, libraries, etc) are fantastic, too, but are they even open to undergraduates? The diversity of the class and the fact that students come from 50 states and 100 countries is excellent, but is any student truly going to meet someone from each state and each of 100 countries? The education is la creme de la creme, but considering the inevitable competition and probable lack of social life, is a top-notch education (which, upon deeper analysis, may not even be top-notch) really worth forsaking that true “college experience” that spurs the development of lifelong friendships and bonds? Needless to say (and I say it anyway :p), all of them have great education, but is it really worth nearly $200,000 to earn a name-brand diploma and the once-in-a-lifetime experience (well, twice-in-a-lifetime counting grad school) when you could just as easily go to a state school, learn just as much, and have a leg up on grad school admissions? Sorry if my tone sounds derogatory; that’s definitely not what I intended to come across as, but sometimes, I really just wonder if a HYP diploma is really worth all that it’s made out to be. I won’t lie. If Harvard were to have sent me an acceptance letter, I probably would have accepted without hesitation, but since that didn’t happen, I guess I have a better angle from which I can look back on all of this and try to put it into perspective.
<p>There are a lot of other considerations in picking a college besides prestige. Consider whether the college is urban/rural/suburban, private/public, large/small/midsize, university/LAC, and so on. Do you care if the college has division 1 sports? Do you want a strong frat and sorority presence in student life or would you hate that? Do you care about the political orientation of the campus? Do you want a school with parties or positive peer pressure? Decide what characteristics you want in a college. If one of the Ivies have it, then it should be a candidate, but you should never pick a school solely on prestige. The Ivies don't have that much in common among themselves anyway except for prestige and so chosing all Ivies to apply to is rather shallow. You need to select a college that is a fit for you personally. If you care about warm weather, Emory outranks Harvard. The rankings would be different for a biology major than a history major.</p>
<p>There are studies showing that people who are accepted to an Ivy League school but who attend elsewhere are just as successful in terms of lifetime earnings as people who actually attend the Ivy.</p>
<p>You always hear about connections that you develop in school. The top colleges recruit at the top schools and so going to an Ivy may help you get a better first job. After your first job, on-the-job performance is what matters and not where you went to school. Connections are probably important for lawyers and Harvard MBA's, but I haven't seen it for anyone else.</p>
<p>There are at least a hundred colleges with the facilities of Harvard. Actually, what I always hear about Harvard is that the faculty is too interested in research and not undergraduate education. The Ivies are selective because more people apply to them. More people apply to them because of brand conciousness, and not because they are head and shoulders above other colleges. Most of what you get out of college comes from your own efforts anyway.</p>
<p>Also, if you plan on getting a doctorate, going to law school, going to medical/veternarian school, or getting a prestigious MBA, the post-undergrad school is all that matters. Grad schools are looking for diversity, too. They take candidates from public universities and LAC's. Besides, it is better to apply to grad school in the top decile of a state school than the bottom half of Harvard's class.</p>
<p>It's really no different from luxury cars, actually, if you think about it. Jaguars are very nice, clean, and carry a huge "name weight" but they're really finicky to take care of. On the other hand, Lexus is a nice luxury Japanese car line where care is as easy as 1-2-3. Lots of people buy another Lexus after owning their first Lexus. They love the experience. BMWs are nice cars, lots of name prestige, but they're a tad on the clunky side and complicated and confusing. </p>
<p>So, of course there are going to be worthwhile, on the expensive side, prestigious undergrad experiences of the HYPS caliber (such as U Penn, U Chicago, etc) but there will also be ones that aren't worthwhile (IMO, Harvard). I don't know why everyone shoots for Harvard when 1) they're probably not going to accept you and 2) it probably isn't a good fit for you anyway and 3) if you're the smartest kid in your area, you're going to learn just how smart you thought you were, and you're probably going to end up jumping out of your dorm room to certain death in Harvard Yard ala NYU students (just a jab at NYU, I actually like the school). </p>
<p>I do know that certain companies recruit more heavily at certain schools, and some will recruit you regardless of your major (like the guy I know who majored in Intellectual Philosophy at Harvard and went into Bank of America. . . what gives?). LSU, for example, while known as a party, tailgating school extraordinaire, has a great accounting program. One of the top accounting firms in the world sent representatives to LSU and, at the end of the day, told the president their firm would hire almost any accounting grad from LSU. </p>
<p>Which is why, though I don't feel LSU is a good fit for me, I would like to pursue my undergrad degree at a public university of high caliber, spend the rest of my money on my MBA and on moving to Europe. :-)</p>
<p>
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Most of what you get out of college comes from your own efforts anyway.
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my sentiments exactly
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Besides, it is better to apply to grad school in the top decile of a state school than the bottom half of Harvard's class.
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i agree completely, and that's why i often wonder if, for grad-school admissions, it weren't best (for diversity and GPA reasons) to attend a state school</p>
<p>i love the analogy, Europegirl...I had never actually thought about it that way</p>
<p><em>sigh</em> I guess it's just ironic sometimes how much time/money/blood/sweat people will dedicate solely to getting into Harvard, and then they don't get in...or, even worse, they do get in, but have a miserable time being taught by people other than professors, being pushed away from the very resources that once drew them to the college, and being knocked down by competition they once considered encouraging, all the while knowing that graduation probably just means $200,000 of debt</p>
<p>Harvard has more grade inflation that most state schools. It's much easier to get a high GPA there and at most ivies.</p>
<p>If you're interested in a top professional grad school, there is much evidence showing that it is much easier to gain entry from a top private college.</p>
<p>Most H alums will agree with me that the best part of being at Harvard is being around so many peers who are fascinating -- smart, interested in ECs (often ECs unrelated to their majors), articulate, etc.</p>
<p>Also, the average debt that Harvard students graduate with is less than $10,000. The national average is around $20,000.</p>
<p>Whether Harvard is worth it is an individual consideration. It matters what a person is looking for in their college experience.</p>
<p>"It's really no different from luxury cars, actually, if you think about it. Jaguars are very nice, clean, and carry a huge "name weight" but they're really finicky to take care of. On the other hand, Lexus is a nice luxury Japanese car line where care is as easy as 1-2-3. Lots of people buy another Lexus after owning their first Lexus. They love the experience. BMWs are nice cars, lots of name prestige, but they're a tad on the clunky side and complicated and confusing."</p>
<p>CLEARLY you have absolutely no freaking clue what you're talking about. The whole paragraph made me want to barf. Not only was everyline frankly BS, but a point was not even evident. My dad got a lexus as a present and it's far from easy as 123. The keyless ignition is more trouble than it's worth.<br>
Also how the hell does a LEXUS carry any less of a name weight than a bimmer or a jag. An LS400 is 76k, a Jag kx series is 82k, am i missing something?</p>
<p>Also, saying a Lexus is better than a BMW is like saying Missouri Community College offers better research oppertunities and education than Carnegie Mellon.</p>