<p>Is a top 20 University worth having an extra 5,000 dollars worth of student loan debt a year?</p>
<p>How much is the loan at the other option?
Are you saying 20,000 per year vs 25,000 per year?
Or are you talking about 5,000 per year vs 10,000 per year?</p>
<p>Is the other option in the top 25? or in the top 300?</p>
<p>please give more detail so we have a better handle on the options</p>
<p>Depends on the kid and the major and the life plan. For a Romantic Poetry major who plans to teach middle school Language Arts, I’d say no. For a pre med student, perhaps. For an engineering degree, more strongly “perhaps”. </p>
<p>Some worlds, like finance, tend to hire from a handful of schools. Other paths may actually be stronger at a public college (eg, my field, Wildlife Science, is MUCH stronger at public colleges. A teeny private would tend towards offering a “biology” degree with most of the program slanted for pre-meds. A true wildlife biologist will be far better off at a public college that has a Fish and Wildlife Dept.). </p>
<p>Does that help?</p>
<p>Extra 5,000 a year for the student. 27,000 after four years vs. 40,000 after years. She is deciding between top 20 and roughly a top 70 school. Current plan is pre-med via anthro or bio. 1st school is small private pre-med factory school with tons of opportunties. 2nd school is also strong for sciences, but one of the largest schools in the country. I’m not sure if she will get the same opportunties at school #1 due to size.</p>
<p>If she is planning to go to med school, you want to keep your undergrad debt to a BARE minimum. $40,000 in loans will require a payback of $500 or so a month for at least ten years. Then you would need to add to that the money that will be borrowed for medical school. You are looking at some HUGE debt. If it were me, I would look at the option that provides a good education at a reasonable cost.</p>
<p>The math does not work out. $5K for 4 years is 20K. Added to 27K is 47K. Which one is it?</p>
<p>The other part of the equation is how much can D earn during the year, and is that accounted for yet? If D can make an additional $5K over the summer and the expected 4 year debt is actually $40K, she could finish school with a $20K debt, which is not unreasonable.</p>
<p>Only you and D can decide whether the better school is worth the additional sacrifices, but you might be able to make it work without saddling D with excessive debt.</p>
<p>I caution against thinking a student can make much during the summer in this economy. Too many of the basic skills jobs are being filled by folks desperate for any income. Unless one is highly confident of a well paid internship, it is more likely that summer earnings will be a few hundred dollars at best. </p>
<p>Keep in mind that med schools have trended towards taking older students. Does D have a plan to work a year or two after college before applying to med school? If so, what field/job might that be? Which college makes that possible?</p>
<p>Keep in mind, too, that one thing a med school (or grad program) would look at would be letters of reference. Where would D be happy as a clam and totally shining? For some that is a small pond but others come alive in a big pond with lots of action available. </p>
<p>We tend to equate cost with quality. The $3.00/lb apples are supposed to be fresher and crisper than the .59 cents/lb apples. But cost does not always equal quality in the college world. One really has to get down to details to sort out which program is worth the bucks.</p>
<p>It’s the sub/unsubsidized loans which equals 27,000. If she attends the top 20 school she will have to borrow an additional 5,000 because I can’t afford to pay it all. So it is around 40,000 because I think she can make up at least 2,000 in 4 years which is why I come up with 40,000. She is extremely frugal kid and very good with money so I think she would be able to work hard to pay of the debt once she is all finished with school. Most people who attend medical school come out with tons of debt, she won’t be the first or the last. I’m not worried about her affording the debt, I’m worried that she will go to this pre-med factory and decide medical school isn’t for her and change her major to philosophy or womens studies or something. Then she went to this pre-med factory for nothing. I think if she sticks with her current plans she will be fine but if she doesn’t I’m worried about how she will afford the loans. As far as making herself standout, references,etc The top 20 school has opportunties galore for that sort of stuff and I think she will shine. I just don’t know about the big public school. This is all very stressful!</p>
<p>Here is a calculator to run the numbers: [FinAid</a> | Calculators | Award Letter Comparison Tool](<a href=“Your Guide for College Financial Aid - Finaid”>Award Letter Requirements - Finaid)</p>
<p>You also should sit down with the estimated Cost of Attendance (COA) that each place has given her in the financial aid award letter. What factors (books, housing, meals, travel) are things that she can control, and what factors aren’t? How much does she think she could reduce those expenses? Maybe she won’t need an additional 5k each year.</p>
<p>What is her earning potential during the school year and on vacation? Some kids can make more money than others.</p>
<p>Lastly, what other opportunities does she have at these two institutions with the different budgets that they would entail? Would the cheap place mean being able to take advantage of unpaid internships? Would the expensive place offer niftier options for a semester abroad?</p>
<p>Frankly, you are right to be concerned about the debt. There is a difference between adding 27k of undergrad debt onto med school debt, and adding 40k of undergrad debt onto med school debt - roughly an additional $150 each month. Not huge, but not chump change either.</p>
<p>Your daughter sounds like a smart, competent kid. Talk with her about your concerns. She needs to know what she might be facing down the line. Then whatever her decision, encourage her to face it without fear, and to never, ever look back.</p>
<p>Re-reading this this morning, I have to ask, where is she going to get that extra $5,000 each year? Will you co-sign? Will you take out a Parent Plus loan? If you are going to co-sign, do you know with certainty that you will be able to be approved for years 2, 3, and 4? If you so-sign or take out a Plus, is it your intention to help her pay down this share of her loans, or will it all be up to her?</p>
<p>Does she have any other options left? Would one of them leave her without any debt?</p>
<p>That’s the question all of us ask when our kids have a lot of options at varying costs. My son could go to college for free. Yes, he could make money during college years, have his car and live as well as someone earning a living wage during the next four years, if he chose to take a scholarship to a local school and commute. And we wouldn’t have to pay either. He could also choose a number of options where the cost is such that we could pay it all out of our pockets and anything he earned is pure gravy. No loans, no withdrawals from saving since we are happy to pay up to $35K towards total COA of a school, plus if he lives at home, his room and board are on the house. Didn’t like those options.</p>
<p>He also was accepted to some wonderful schools that have COAs in the $55K range, leaving a $20K gap. He could take out the Stafford max of $5500, has some nice savings, can sell his car, and is not adverse to working a job. He might be able to make it. But he did not feel any of those schools were worth what he would have to do. Off the table they went. But another kid might have picked this option. S/he might have felt that the name recognition, prestige was worth it. Or just felt that the school was ever so perfect and what s/he wanted the most in the whole world and thinks it’s worth pounding salt and living frugally, poorly even for the next 4 years, worrying about money and owing even thereafter. Some even borrow heavily for that dream school.</p>
<p>Where one draws the line of what is worth it is a personal thing. In my mind, the Stafford maximums are usually where one should draw the line. That’s for an average situation. How much family support one can get after school plays heavily in what a kid should borrow. I am appalled at how many kids expect their parents to co sign or get loans in huge amounts, by the way, when they have to know their family is having a tough time financially already. How a kid with a low EFC expects parents to take on debt is beyond me, but I see it in the posts here.</p>
<p>I love Happymom’s advice to the OP and am with her all the way with it.</p>
<p>No. No matter what she will have the 27,000 in unsub/sub loans. We cannot afford the 25,000 a year that it would cost us for her to not have loans. I think having 27,000 in debt is reasonable and doable. The extra 5,000 a year would come from private loans. I was told by one of the schools that she could qualify for private loans so that’s where it would come from. The reason I would have her do that rather than me is because of the deferrment. I cannot afford to take out that much in loans. I’m still trying to figure out if it makes sense to withdraw from 401k and take some PLus Loans, but I know the withdrawal will hurt my EFC and taxes at the end of the year so I’m afraid to take too much. She has a few schools were she got really good merit scholarships that would cost us about 10,000 or half of what the “top 20” school will cost us. She absolutely does not want to go to the state school, which is why I told her she will have to borrow the extra 5,000 if she wants to go to top 20.</p>
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<p>She WILL be able to defer payment on the Stafford loans of $27000 until 6 months after she graduates. BUT please, check the provisions of those private loans. First, I can’t imagine your daughter will qualify for them without a cosigner. Second check to see if the private loan payments can be deferred…many cannot be.</p>
<p>And most important…make sure your daughter is aware that her undergrad debt alone will cost her about $1000 a month in payments when she begins to pay them. Add this to the hefty loans she will likely need for medical school and be realistic. She could easily end up with $250,000 or MORE in total loans…about $3000 a month.</p>
<p>Well, about pre-med factories. If you noodle around the internet, the “best schools” for pre-med are those with the highest rate of acceptances to med schools or, sometimes, highest % of kids getting into one of their top 3 choices. Is that what this “factory” is?</p>
<p>Many colleges manage this level of “success” by taking a large number of pre-meds as freshman, then aggressively weeding out all but the very best. So, when they say 98% or 100% get into a med program, it is based on this select, cultivated number of kids. My math-sci kid was stunned at the level of freshman classes. You want to do a little fast research and see what you think. Sorry, but I lost my links.</p>
<p>Also, many on CC will tell you that getting into med school is a matter of taking the right pre-med classes (which I think you know) plus the MCAT scores and some relevant experience. It doesn’t hinge on a particular narrow range of “best” schools. Good luck.</p>
<p>You can defer PLUS as well. Look at all of the interest rates being offered. PLUS is no bargain, in my opinion; it’s flexibilty and ease of application is its big benefit, but my friends who have cosigned loans for their kids are reporting even higher interest rates on those loans and not as much flexibility. PLUS is very, very flexible. Also if you cosign for your child and something happens to you, the child is still responsible for the loan. With PLUS, the loan is forgiven at your death. Yes, unpleasant thought about dying, but that is another benefit of PLUS.</p>
<p>Your D is going to have HUGE loans for med school, so it’s not a good idea to have $40-50k in debt for undergrad (and you have to assume that this Top 20 school will have rising costs each year).</p>
<p>Your D could easily have $200k-300k in med school debt ALONE…those payments will be $2000-3000 per month just for that. Even instate public med schools can cost $50k per year for COA, and of course, there’s no guarantee that she’d be accepted to an instate public. Private and OOS publics can easily cost $75k+ per year in COA. </p>
<p>Too many people assume that doctors can easily pay back big loans, but in truth, newish/youngish doctors do not have a bunch of extra cash each month to make mega-payments.</p>
<p>I also wonder about that school that said the D would qualify for a private loan. Is that a private loan that the school would be providing? If not, how do you know if that’s really true?</p>
<p>OP, Please read this paper and come to your own conclusion.</p>
<p>[The</a> $555,000 Student-Loan Burden - WSJ.com](<a href=“The $555,000 Student-Loan Burden - WSJ”>The $555,000 Student-Loan Burden - WSJ)</p>
<p>When my oldest child was in high school she reached a point when she needed a calculus tutor. Most tutoring services do not have a boatload of calculus tutors to choose from - fortunately for us we found a lovely tutor who bailed out of the plan to go to medical school during senior year of Ivy education. Our tutor was working part time jobs and jobs unrelated to undergrad degree to pay off loans and figure things out.</p>
<p>I don’t think Tutor’s parents were pleased by the decision, but it was very fortunate for us as the calculus skills were top notch.</p>
<p>Plans change, loans live on.</p>
<p>And I completely agree with the above post about weeding kids out of medical school application pool to achieve high percentages of success in admissions.</p>
<p>Yes. I have searched and searched until my fingers are numb about the pre-med acceptance rates and I know all about the “weeding” out, but nobody can tell you not to apply to medical school. If you stand your ground, take the courses, and take the mcat that’s your choice. Sure they can try and sway you towards another area or tell you your grades or scores aren’t good enough, but my daughter is used to that and she didn’t listen which is why she’s now been accepted to her dream school. Yes, I am well aware that medical school is a ton of money, but does that mean only wealthy kids who have 200,000 to pay for it should be doctors? I don’t agree with that. I’m not sure what we will do, but I don’t think I’m the first and I won’t be the last parent to be willing to eat hotdogs so that my child can good the absolute best education that will help her succeed in life. I think it’s easy for parents to say they wouldn’t borrow 20,000 a year to do it, but what do parents of students who are average have to do to send their kids to school? Not everybody has a high achieving kid who gets scholarships like our kids, so that means if the state school costs 20,000 plus a year, that’s what they will be paying. I think as a parent it’s my job to send my daughter to school. My parents mortgaged their home to pay for my sister to attend school. Sure she dropped out and they had to pay it back, but had they not given her that opportunity it would have bothered them for the rest of their lives. There has to be some other parents out there who like me, don’t have 80,000 a year saved up for their kid to go to college. I can’t be the only person who makes a good living but will still have to borrow to send my child to college. The sticker price is 56,000 a year for the school so I know there are plenty of parents who are expected to pay what I’m paying and will do it.</p>
<p>My alma mater weeds out med school applicants. They have a 100% accept rate to med schools. But anyone applying to med school is supposed to go to a committee set up for that purpose and they decide if they will give you their rec or not. If they don’t, getting into a med school is very difficult. Really impossible directly from college. Those kids usually find a job, take grad level courses, and then reapply to med school on their own. An old class mate who now works at the school told me she doesn’t know anyone who got into med school directly from there without going through committee, and this is a top pre med university by anyone’s reckoning. </p>
<p>But the preparation for med school is top scale there, no doubt about it. But I would not recommend anyone but the cream of the crop kids with AP science scores of 5, from top high schools to go premed at such schools. I don’t recommend my old college to my own kids. Too cut throat in atmosphere. Most kids change their minds about their majors anyways, and the premed route has more drop outs than most majors.</p>
<p>But in terms of paying for the college your child wants, it is definitely a personal decision. If that’s what you want, you give it your best shot. You make your decisions at the present, given what info you have NOW and not extrapolating some things because anything is possible. If you can work out the financial and are willing to take the risks there, then go for it, is my feeling. Most kids I know still borrow for medical school, and most doctors unlike the one in that half million dollar debt story, do manage to pay off their debt and make a pretty darned good living. It’s still a job that pays well relative to other disciplines, and the need for doctors and other health care workers is certainly there.</p>