Is it worth it?

<p>As of late, I've been re-evaluating things; namely, what I really want out of life and whether I'll achieve that with a career in medicine. I wanted to get some opinions from people here.</p>

<p>Given the direction medicine is headed these days (declining reimbursements, decreasing autonomy, paperwork and pre-auths and insurance hassles, malpractice insurance, "healthcare reform", mid-levels encroaching on physician turf, etc), there's a lot to discourage potential applicants from applying to med school. There are definitely rewards in medicine, but even for a genuinely interested pre-med it's hard to really know whether or not these outweigh ever-broadening downsides. There's only so much to be gained by shadowing or getting clinical experience as a pre-med; there's so much more that you don't see, but is just as important.</p>

<p>So for you med students, residents, attendings, spouses/relatives of docs, and others intimately familiar with medicine: Is it worth it? Do you think it'll be worth it in 5, 10, 20 years? Would you do it again? Is there anything you'd do differently if you had the chance?</p>

<p>Are you reconsidering if it is worth it, based on the recent health care reform developments?</p>

<p>Do what you love-- you spend more time at work than you do anywhere else-- mds may not make the same money they do today-- but it will still far exceed most Americans.</p>

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The recent healthcare reform stuff is only a small part of it. I know that’s all still up in the air and it wouldn’t necessarily be smart to base the entire decision around it. It’s a combination of everything that seems to be leading to a decline in the state of medicine today.</p>

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That’s exactly the issue. Unfortunately, there are plenty of docs (some I know, some I’ve read things by/about) for whom the joys of medicine are no longer worth the costs. I don’t want to go into all the details, but to sum it all up, let me put it this way: I’ve investigated and desired a career in medicine for years. It’s not something that happened on a whim. I’ve invested a lot of time and effort; however, I don’t want to make a 7+ year time and financial commitment and find out that I don’t like it as much as I expected. I understand that it requires sacrifices, and I’m willing to make those. But I don’t want to have to sacrifice everything and have nothing to show for it, or to be miserable. A lot of docs nowadays seem to be making more sacrifices than is worth it.</p>

<p>That’s life. You will never truly know what it feels like to be a member of any profession until you do it.</p>

<p>If you have to ask, it’s probably is not. For many of us, it was never about prestige, or income or status. It was what we wanted to do. It was about being a caregiver. It was about making a difference. </p>

<p>I went to a private LAC on scholarship for undergrad. I was accepted at a prestigious private med school, but did not want to be saddled with that kind of debt. So I chose a newer instate med school. I still needed loans, but they were manageable. I went into OB/Gyn, despite the looming malpractice issues. I came back to my home state to practice, despite the fact that the malpractice climate was one of the worst in the nation. It was what I wanted to do. </p>

<p>I love what I do. I never regretted any of the decisions I made. I am happy driving a VW bug. OK its a convertible–I splurged. I felt even more rejuvenated last summer when I went on a medical mission to rural Jamaica. I knew when a nurse practitioner and I saw 96 patients in a 6 hour period that I was doing what I was meant to do. I saw families who walked 4-5 miles UP the mountain just to see a doctor who had set up shop in the grade school building with the supplies and meds and glasses we brought with us. They had folders of hand written medical notes spanning 10 years, with the majority of patients never having access to any other care but the doctors who come once every 4-6 months. One 86 yo women walked back down, picked mangos and breadfruit, and walked back up with them so say thanks. That is why I do what I do. </p>

<p>Do I spend time getting prior auth’s? Appealing denials? Trying to get Medicare or BCBS to pay me? Sure. Every day. It is part and parcel of what I do. But to me, it’s worth it.</p>

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<p>I disagree. I see it like getting married - before you do it, make sure your eyes are wide open. Afterwards, keep them tightly closed!</p>

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<p>Unfortunately, I think there’s a certain amount of uncertainty (ho ho!) in making any significant commitment. If there were a crystal ball that allowed us to see into the future, there’d be a lot fewer deluded pre-meds.</p>

<p>What you can do is shadow, volunteer in a clinical setting, and talk to doctors of all stripes before you take the plunge. I think talking to doctors who are unhappy is just as important as talking to doctors who love every moment of what they do - what people say when they state that they hate their careers is just as telling as what people say when they say they love their jobs.</p>

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<p>The key here is that you should not have to sacrifice everything to become a physician. I can’t stress this strongly enough. If you had to throw away everything that really mattered to you to get into medical school and make it through residency, then medicine isn’t the field that truly suits you.</p>

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<p>That’s because the “good old days” when many forms of medicine were a license to print money are over. That said, physicians still make a far better living than most other professions. If you are in it strictly for the money you might consider another profession.</p>

<p>I’ve felt strongly about medicine for a long time, and it has never been about the money. That said, I would like to have (and support) a family and be compensated fairly in my chosen career. If I didn’t feel anything having the opportunity to help people at their most vulnerable, in an intimate provider-patient relationship/setting, I would never have considered medicine. I realize that this is important, that this reward is important just like monetary compensation. I’ve been a volunteer EMT for several years and love that aspect of the job. At some point, however, the reward gained from these interactions does not make up for the loss in other areas (income being only one of them). I guess I’m trying to figure out if the balance (in medicine) between the tangibles and intangibles is the balance I’m looking for. Unfortunately, it seems to vary so much from person to person that it’s hard for me to extrapolate to my own situation.</p>

<p>You also have to consider the specialty of medicine that you would be working in. My father is a physician, and although he loves being a doctor, there are numerous occasions where he wishes he chose a different career path within the medical field. He works long hours, sometimes not coming home until midnight or even later. When I was growing up he was barely around, so naturally my sister and I became closer to my mother. Did he provide well for the family? Yes, and I lived comfortably and my parents can still support me through college. Even so, my father has tried to convince me multiple times to choose a different career path just because he knows how strenuous it can be (albeit rewarding in other respects). That’s why I’m always having this internal debate as well (and considering a possible career in veterinary medicine instead).</p>

<p>OP,</p>

<p>Whether it’s worth it depends on your realistic alternatives to medicine and the relative value/pain mix of medicine versus that of the alternatives. The practice of medicine today involves long hours, an uncertain future and likely declining reimbursement. If medicine is going to be a career step above your alternatives, it may be worth it from a compensation vs. hassle point of view. If medicine is one of several “comparable” choices, it may not be worth it.</p>

<p>BTW, most of the docs from the “good old days” (as defined by eadad) have already retired. The good old days probably ended in the '80’s.</p>

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This is a point I’ve made before. I’ve always (genuinely) asked what those alternatives would be. I haven’t found any (that aren’t exceptions that only apply to a few).</p>

<p>GoldShadow, you are not alone in your predicament. I experienced the same second-guessing that you are experiencing now, and here’s how I dealt with it. Despite having worked extremely hard on (most) of my medical school prerequisites while majoring in Mathematics, and also rising to the role of President in my school’s premedical honor society, I have chosen not to go to medical school. At least, not right now.</p>

<p>The way I see it, there are tons of comparable fields that I’d enjoy working in–I’m interested in almost every subject, a problem I’m sure a lot of pre-meds face. Smart, outgoing people usually have a lot of interests. In light of this fact, I am choosing to take one step at a time. As a Mathematics major, I’ve had a lot of exposure to the Actuarial Science field, and with the exception of physical and biological sciences, it incorporates a lot of my main interests: computer science, math & statistics, and business/economics, to name a few.</p>

<p>For me, a possibility like AS is similar to MD, as it incorporates a lot of my interests, it provides good compensation, and it has good job security. The major differences? I’ll start earning money right away as an actuary, and the field itself is burgeoning. This directly contrasts the medical field, where certainly the need for MDs is rising, but as you mentioned, the future is uncertain and compensation is steadily declining, while debt and other sacrifices are not declining at all.</p>

<p>I understand exactly where you’re coming from when you say “is it worth it?” My main goal for my career is to allow me to provide a good, comfortable life for my family, and I’d like to be there for them as much as possible. In the end, I had to ask myself–how can I best accomplish that? Is it as an MD, or an Actuary, or something else? Ultimately I have chosen Actuary because it allows me to fulfill that goal in the best way possible. I might not feel as passionate about actuarial science as medicine, but that’s a compromise I’m willing to make in order to meet that most important goal.</p>

<p>Another factor is that I’m 21 years old. All of this, my whole perspective, might change in 1 year, 5 years, 10 years, etc. I realize that, and I’m OK with that. If I’m 29 and unmarried, and things are looking up in the medical field, perhaps I’ll choose to go to medical school then? It’s not do-or-die, there is always time in life to make decisions that are right for you.</p>

<p>Sorry for the long post, but I felt like it might be helpful to hear how I dealt with the question “is it worth it.” Your story is so similar to my own, and I know it’s a story that many students are experiencing all over America. Just get your priorities in order–what is most important, a career you love, a practical means to support a family, a reason to get up every morning? Once you find that one most important goal, hopefully the right decision will become clear to you.</p>

<p>Good luck to you!</p>

<p>From prospective of one who is not related to anybody in medicine. I am on my job #9. I have only one goal for my D. is to have better job security. That was my reason to advise her to look at medical field. It is very depressing to be unemployed. It takes very positive personality to get yourself together time and agian to look for new position and learn there all over again. Multiply it by 9. If you want something more stable than that, strongly advise any medically related profession. My life was exciting, but it is for everybody, by far, it is for very few extremely positive people who do not mind to take risk even in pretty old age. I have never met unemployed MD, and I know very many of them.</p>

<p>I’ve mentioned it a couple of times, but as an MD/JD candidate, I’ve been considering the practice of law over the practice of medicine for the past year or so. Shouldn’t I be a doctor? I’ve often thought. The job doesn’t seem fun, and it’s awfully subject to the whims of the government, and the turmoil it imposes on my twenties and thirties is a nightmare… but… don’t I owe it to somebody? Of course, some lawyers do a tremendous amount of good in the world, too. But somehow it just doesn’t feel the same… I think.</p>

<p>But a funny thing happened when I attended my school’s Match Day today. The applause largely followed predictable patterns: when somebody popular went to the front, the cheers were loudest. New folks got polite applause, but they simple didn’t know the folks in the audience as well. Big-name hospitals similarly got applause – Stanford, Brigham & Women’s, Beth Israel. Sometimes, with an unknown hospital, the audience waited to see how the candidate reacted. UMDNJ? Is he happy? When a student wilted, even for a moment, the audience gave a milder, polite, supportive clap. When a student exulted, the audience followed his lead.</p>

<p>And a funny thing struck me: Is it just me, or is the audience clapping louder for “lifestyle specialties”? It seemed that the applause was a lot louder – not a little, a lot – when they knew that one of their classmates wasn’t going to have to kill themselves for the next few years. Surgery and medicine seemed more muted; dermatology and radiology received overwhelming enthusiasm.</p>

<p>And a quick check revealed that huge numbers of “lifestyle specialty” candidates – far more than I was used to. Rumor has it that this is why my classmates had a higher-than-usual number of “scrambles” – for one of the premiere medical schools in the country, scrambling is usually pretty rare. And yet this year and last year, we had pretty substantial numbers. Why? Because my class is, increasingly, shunting into those competitive specialties. They aren’t competitive because the medicine is glamorous or sophisticated; they’re competitive because… well, because you get to keep your humanity a little while longer.</p>

<p>This is the trend I see taking hold in medical schools today. More and more HMS students are accepting positions not at Beth Israel and San Francisco General, but at McKinsey. More and more, my classmates speak of our Boston Consulting-entering counterparts not with disdain (as practicing physicians tend to) but with envy. And, overwhelmingly, they are shunting into dermatology, radiology, ophthalmology… anything that will pay well while allowing them to retain some semblance of their lives.</p>

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<p>On an economic note, this is an impossible-to-avoid foolishness. Radiology pays well only because Medicare, back in the early days, decided it would. Medicare could, at any moment’s notice, radically slash radiology compensation – and everybody would follow. It could, with a single stroke of the pen, destroy an entire specialty. In fact, President Obama has hinted that an ideal system would do exactly that: radically slash reimbursement rates (as much as 25%) for fields like cardiology, radiology, anesthesia, and dermatology.</p>

<p>Medicare, under his and Congress’s direction, is seeking to promote some specialties at the expense of others; make it easier to replace physicians with NP’s and PA’s; to continue to impose new regulations on physician practices.</p>

<p>And the most frightening thing is that they might be right. There is an imbalance of physician distribution. Physicians do need to be held accountable to external authority. And NP’s and PA’s are valuable and underutilized members of health care teams.</p>

<p>But that is little consolation to my classmates, who as of today are locked into their fields for the rest of their lives. If the President wishes (perhaps even correctly) to slash their pay, they will have no recourse. With a single stroke of the pen their expectations can be entirely wiped out.</p>

<p>And yet they have ended relationships for these programs; studied for years for these programs; given up everything else they might ever do with their lives for the chance to be a radiologist. Twenty years or five years or six months down the line, Medicare might decide to change all of that, and they’ll have no ability to respond. They have to place their bets when they’re twenty-six or twenty-seven, and they don’t get to change their minds ever again.</p>

<p>These people have spent their entire twenties on the move. Physicians don’t get laid off because layoffs are built into their lives. You go to college, often away from home. Most folks don’t get into medical school directly; they have to find a job or a master’s program in the meanwhile. They enter medical school, usually in a different location entirely. You do residency, maybe a transition year, maybe a fellowship – again, all in different places. By the time you’re 35, you’ve held five different jobs, usually in five different places – and this was all automatic. There is no way to avoid the “turnover” which any other sector would call a forced layoff.</p>

<p>You do this, ostensibly, as an investment. Into yourself, into your family, into society. But all of this can change – by a new technology, by a new labor staff, by a single lawsuit, by a change in insurance law. Or, above all, by a change in what the government feels like paying you tomorrow.</p>

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<p>“I might not want to be a doctor,” I observed this afternoon to my friend, a third year medical student at another top-tier school.</p>

<p>“Well, me neither,” he answered. “But it’s too late, I’m committed now.” And, after spending $180,000 on his first three years, he’s correct. “Which is why I’m going to radiology.”</p>

<p>See, my friend doesn’t want to be a doctor, but enrolling in medical school destroyed any other options he might ever have had. So he’s looking at the specialty list and trying to figure out: which specialty can be least “doctor”-like? Which ones will let me spend time with my children? Provide for my family? Allow me time to breathe and grow and enjoy the other pieces of my life?</p>

<p>Apparently, my friend has decided that radiology will move him the farthest away from he thinks it means to be a physician. And precisely because of that, he is choosing it.</p>

<p>Every student I know – every single one – chose medicine because they thought they would enjoy the feeling of being a doctor. Once they’d spent a couple of years immersed in it, many of them changed their minds. When the world of medicine has degenerated to the point where medical students are intentionally seeking the specialties that feel the least like medicine, something is profoundly wrong with the career.</p>

<p>To be honest, I’m sure that if the government, instead of slashing specialty pay, just decided to pay PCP’s 2x as much as they do now, or allow loan forgiveness after entering a primary care residency, many more people would be motivated to do primary care. I may only be a first year, but I’m pretty sure I can see that the problem with the primary care shortage is the awful pay and awful hours for the amount of time and debt that we incur from our education. It’s simply not worth it. My goal is to specialize, not because I “don’t like medicine anymore” but because I do love it and want to be the most knowledgeable person in my specific field rather than having some knowledge about everything and then having to make referrals. However, with the additional amount of coverage that the population is going to be getting, there’s going to be an even bigger PCP shortage, and I know that if, with primary care, I was entitled to have a life and a family while being compensated enough to pay for my debt and malpractice insurance while supporting a family, I would probably look more into primary care to see if I could like it and explore that possibility some more.</p>

<p>Is there a possibility that some PA’s and RN’s may be performing non-critical functions for low risk patients while PCP’s supervise/audit the results. It is a controversial issue. Nonetheless, if lowering the cost is one of the goal in the future, this may be brought up at some point.</p>

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<p>When ObamaCare passes, that will become a near-certainty.</p>

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<p>It’s happened more than once. Back in the '80’s, opthalmology was huge. Hospitals were begging those specialists to choose their facility. The docs I knew were making seven figures back then, working 7-noon. Then, voila, Congress whacked the reimbursement rate and Medicare patients – 99% of adults over 65 need corrective lenses – were no longer so attractive or the gold mine. Literally overnight, a 7 figure income become $250k. Still nice work, but won’t make the Ferrari payments in Beverly Hills.</p>

<p>Of course people go into medicine for prestige, money, and social status.</p>

<p>People are driven by self interest and the pay offs of medicine are the motivators. If you cut reimbursements by 50%, i suspect that we’d have a much stronger Wall Street as potential Physicians become Investment bankers. When most Asian parents are asked why they want their kids to become doctors, they say something about social acceptance and status, especially immigrants. </p>

<p>The vast majority of people are self motivated. You help others because the deed will help you. You care for the sick because the government shoves $$$$$$ in your pocket afterwards. True, some people actually want to help people by becoming doctors. I’d bet even those people would have second thoughts if their future salaries were cut by 25%.</p>