Is law unemployment over exaggerated?

[zaprowsdower]

<p>

@Fly The Helo

a good JD program will make you qualified for writing work among other things

</p>

<p>The JD program itself doesn’t really make you qualified for anything, except maybe a job as a law professor. For most law classes, your grade depends entirely on a final exam where good writing counts for nothing. </p>

<p>

but the sense I’m getting from people around here is that 3 years spent learning how to learn, be flexible and write would make me less likely to get a job that I would have been both qualified (though less qualified) for and likely to get 3 years prior?

</p>

<p>Right. The “training” you get from law school is basically useless to any prospective employer, and now you don’t fit the profile of the person they’re looking for, which is probably going to get your resume tossed. You can’t spin the JD or three-year gap in a way that helps your chances. </p>

<p>

@sakky

It isn’t?

</p>

<p>No, it isn’t. For the year I’ve seen data for, they made all of six offers at HLS. That was less than just about every V100 firm, including Wachtell.</p>

<p>

I am convinced that, except during trying economic times, a Harvard Law grad can obtain some job in consulting or finance.

</p>

<p>What convinced you of this? Was it more or less compelling than the wikipedia archives and the businessweek.com forums? And more importantly, why are you talking about HLS?</p>

<p>

But we’re not talking about ‘most companies’. We’re talking specifically about the consulting and finance firms that swarm around the campuses of Harvard and other elite schools.

</p>

<p>Since when? I’m pretty sure the question was about getting an entry-level job generally. </p>

<p>

But that is exactly what I’m talking about. I’m talking specifically about the most prestigious universities - i.e. the Harvards, Yales, Stanfords of the world - where the most elite recruiters, including non-law recruiters, are present.

</p>

<p>Notwithstanding the fact that you seem to have limited knowledge of how recruting actually works at those schools, why are you talking only about HYS?</p>

[sakky]

<p>

No, it isn’t. For the year I’ve seen data for, they made all of six offers at HLS. That was less than just about every V100 firm, including Wachtell.

</p>

<p>And which year would that be? </p>

<p>

What convinced you of this? Was it more or less compelling than the wikipedia archives and the businessweek.com forums? And more importantly, why are you talking about HLS?

</p>

<p>It certainly was highly compelling - it was a matter of talking to actual HLS students, all of whom seem highly convinced that they could obtain consulting or finance jobs if they really wanted ones. Maybe not at the top firms, but they could obtain something. </p>

<p>

And more importantly, why are you talking about HLS?

</p>

<p>

Since when? I’m pretty sure the question was about getting an entry-level job generally.

</p>

<p>

why are you talking only about HYS?

</p>

<p>Ever since post #43, where I specifically stated that a subset of the heretofore conversation held only for the top law schools. As I said in that post, and I reiterate now, I have never disputed that a law degree from a lesser law school carries little weight outside the law. </p>

<p>Now, if you don’t like the parameters of this subthread, then fine, don’t participate in it. </p>

<p>

Notwithstanding the fact that you seem to have limited knowledge of how recruting actually works at those schools,

</p>

<p>Well, I seem to have a better grasp of recruiting at those schools than you do. Even now, it’s difficult to actually avoid consulting and finance recruiters, and a few years ago, they were swarming.</p>

[lskinner]

<p>

Right. The “training” you get from law school is basically useless to any prospective employer, and now you don’t fit the profile of the person they’re looking for, which is probably going to get your resume tossed. You can’t spin the JD or three-year gap in a way that helps your chances.

</p>

<p>I agree. And you need to look at things from the employer’s perspective. They don’t want to hire anyone who has the whiff of personal failure about them. That’s why it’s a lot easier to find a job when you already have a job. </p>

<p>If you have a JD but you are looking for a non-legal job, potential employers will have a tendency to think there is something wrong with you.</p>

<p>As noted above, this does not necessarily apply if the employer is recruiting you, e.g. if a big consulting firm is recruiting on the campus of your top law school.</p>

[Polo08816]

<p>

But then that means that if you’re not working in biglaw, then you should have spare time to join the National Guard.

If someone’s not working in biglaw or a legal-field that is just as competitive - time consuming - as biglaw, then where are they working? This is just a rhetorical question. Imagine a situation where a lawyer may be working for a small organization (perhaps small private practice). It’s hard for a small organization to deal with a reservist’s deployment - you just may not have personnel to spare. Obviously there could be small PDs out there, but it’s much easier to be a reservist when a very high percentage of you co-workers are reservists too and understand you situation.
I don’t think that the average lawyer does better (financially) than an ambitious, capable, and well connected law enforcement officer. Then again, I realize that I’m making a comparison akin to the average top 20 undergrad vs. the top public university undergrad.

Then perhaps we could discuss exactly which states and municipalities you’re talking about, and then have a local reporter talk about it in the context of government spending.

I’m sure reporters will say “been there, done that”. They’re looking for corruption, not incompetence. Incompetence is everywhere in government; it’s all around me.

Which then would make the point moot until we get into another major war.

Not necessarily. IMA and GKO volunteer lists are not hard to get as an individual. All you have to do is volunteer. All I said that the deployment of entire MTOE units is slowing down, but that may change with the USAR depending on their funding/budget situation.</p>

[zaprowsdower]

<p>

@sakky

And which year would that be?

</p>

<ol>
<li> They made 4 offers to 2Ls and 2 to 3Ls; all but one of the 2Ls accepted. More than 100 firms made more offers than that, with Simpson Thatcher leading the way with 74.</li>
</ol>

<p>

It certainly was highly compelling - it was a matter of talking to actual HLS students, all of whom seem highly convinced that they could obtain consulting or finance jobs if they really wanted ones.

</p>

<p>How many students? When was this? Do you think it’s possible that law students have very unrealistic views of their employment prospects? I don’t think you need to go much further than this thread to see that.</p>

<p>

Ever since post #43, where I specifically stated that a subset of the heretofore conversation held only for the top law schools.

</p>

<p>Perhaps it would be a better idea to start a new thread devoted entirely to the imagined employment prospects of HYS grads, instead of starting a subtread that has little to do with the original topic, and which is only relevant to a very small number of people.</p>

<p>

Well, I seem to have a better grasp of recruiting at those schools than you do.

</p>

<p>I dunno; the only thing you’ve said about recruiting at any of those schools was really laughably inaccurate.</p>

[ksannyu]

<p>Hi Glennat &everyone,</p>

<p>Just found this thread recently, so apologies for a very late entry into the discussion. Your first post was stunning, however!</p>

<p>You mentioned even at Harvard and Yale that 15% graduates are unemployed? Is that really true? I see you’ve equated “no data reported” with unemployment. I can see how there may be some who did not respond out of shame. But 15% sounded quite high for law schools like Harvard and Yale! Is that really the case?</p>

<p>I was curious if you had concrete numbers and evidence for these unemployment figures?</p>