<p>My son was one of those 16-20%. I paid his way through a private LAC and then paid his way through medical school(a Texas one), $50k a year for the LAC and around $40k a year for medical school(that includes living costs). My wife and I are affluent but not "“rich”(no vacation homes, no boats, no pools etc…), we saved money for children’s educations from their births( I have 2 sons, did the same for younger son as well). You have to make some tough choices along the way. No parent should risk their own retirement and well being for debt free children, but I have friends who made choices to pleasure themselves(optional homes, most expensive cars they could buy etc…), while having their children take out huge loans for their education-these are choices people make. Everyone has a different definition of what “rich” is, but as a physician myself with lots of friends who are also physicians, I have seen large differences in how people plan their financial lives and the choices that they make. I have a colleague who makes what I make, lives in a million dollar house with a very large mortgage, drives an S-class Mercedes and had his son take out loans for college and medical school, I choose to live more modestly and put the money into education for my children,neither approach is right or wrong, just choices.</p>
<p>I think I paid the same as you for DS’s first two years in college, but paid much less for the rest due to the school’s generous “middle class initiative” (also because we had “dried out” after two years of full pay. LOL.)</p>
<p>We “ripped off” our state government by purchasing Texas’s Guaranteed Tuition Prepaid Plan (a 529) when DS was a second grader. This was purely a dumb luck. Our state discontinued that overly generous plan later on. I believe we purchased that prepaid tuition plan in its very first year.</p>
<p>I do not think DS would save much by going to a Texas med school. But this is also because we could be poorer than the families of many other med school students at his med school which has some generous need-based FA. We sometimes joked that if DS’s college and med school recruited the majority of their students like DS, they would go bankrupt very soon.</p>
<p>Not only we do not have vacation home, but also we essentiall do not have vacation - I think we had expensive vacation (which is defined as having to fly to the destination) only once since DS was a kindergartener.</p>
<p>“At least some docs are their because they can’t survive in private practice.”</p>
<p>So what’s your point?; they are MDs practicing medicine and getting paid for it. Whether or not they “can’t survive in private practice”[proof of this?] is irrelevant. They’ve got jobs practicing medicine.</p>
<p>^ Am I being overly sensitive, or was that a little hostile? I was responding to</p>
<p>“I know a large majority of doctors do not want to work for an employer.”</p>
<p>“I have no idea how you can “know” this when it’s simply not true-especially in California, a state that is home to Kaiser Permanente, a medical group employing many, many physicians. The solo practitioner is getting rarer and rarer, with large and larger physician groups being more and more common.”</p>
<p>That suggested they work for an employer because they “WANT” to, and the fact that they work for Kaiser means a “large majority not wanting to work fo someone” could not be true. My impression and experience has been a little difference. Private practice, like small business are being squeezed out. I think the proof if this is in your last post; private practice is becoming a thing of the past. The other “proof” is that was why I did it. But once my husbands group got bought by a bigger group, and that group became part of an even bigger one, I could afford to make less money, so I am trying again.</p>
<p>I do think think this is the only way this can work. I just wonder if will look back on this like we do family farms and such.</p>
<p>For the OP; some articles on the subject;</p>
<p>13 years ago
“Differentiating Among Medical Practice Settings”
<a href=“Differentiating Among Medical Practice Settings - NEJM CareerCenter Resources”>Jobs;
<p>More recent</p>
<p>[Private</a> practice vs. salaried employment: A complicated decision | Orthopedics Today](<a href=“http://www.healio.com/orthopedics/business-of-orthopedics/news/print/orthopedics-today/{18032629-f0ad-4b49-94ea-f8f69d614846}/private-practice-vs-salaried-employment-a-complicated-decision]Private”>Private practice vs. salaried employment: A complicated decision)</p>
<p>Most recent (from the AMA, so with a grain of salt)</p>
<p>“Private practice’s future in a changing time for medicine”
<a href=“American Medical News - Home - amednews.com”>American Medical News - Home - amednews.com;
<p>For “balance”; the New York Times</p>
<p>“More Doctors Giving Up Private Practices”
<a href=“More Doctors Taking Salaried Jobs - The New York Times”>More Doctors Taking Salaried Jobs - The New York Times;
<p>and </p>
<p>“Family Physician Can’t Give Away Solo Practice”
<a href=“A Family Doctor Looks to Retire, but Finds No One to Take Over - The New York Times”>A Family Doctor Looks to Retire, but Finds No One to Take Over - The New York Times;
<p>Private practice comes in a lot of shapes, not just solo practitioners. My wife is in private practice. She and 25 other physicians along with 103 employees. It’s 4 separate medical practice organizations and 2 medical business organizations. I am employed by a health care organization ( group of hospitals and clinics). There are so many ways to practice medicine and equating private practice with small group and employed physician as hospitalist or kaiser permanente employee really doesn’t do justice to all the possibilities.</p>
<p>havent checked this in awhile, thanks all for the lively conversation and links. keep it coming. thinking I need to go into the business of medicare coding, thats where the money is, perhaps!! He is still shadowing and learning, and moving forward, but this is all very valuable dialogue for him and others looking to medicine. EYES WIDE OPEN!</p>
<p>If interested in medicine, then definitely… However, if thinking in terms of money for the future, then definitely not. Many students get into medical school due to family pressure or with the thought of money but these are the students who end up doing poorly and wasting a lot of time. Just to be clear, I am still a premed myself but I’ve been to several forums and read several articles advising to only get into medicine if you want to be committed and if you love the field.</p>
<p>“Many students get into medical school due to family pressure or with the thought of money but these are the students who end up doing poorly and wasting a lot of time.”
-I would like to clarify here. Cannot get into med. School if not dedicated 100%. As far as I am aware, nobody does poorly at Med. School. There are could be exceptions here and there. But the situation is discussed and usually accomodated by med. School BEFORE disastour occurs. Med. Students are a a norm. graduating. D. has mentioned about 1 student in her 3rd year class, who had postponed, not dropped out. There is no single instance of anybody failing, none. Those who get in are exceptionally dedicated and ready to work the hardest and pass every exam. Exams are cruel, by D’s comment “the academic level is not comparable at all to UG”. Med. School adcoms will make sure that applicant can sustain that level of hard work, they will not let in anybody who is not up to this level of challenge.</p>
<p>^ Wow! It was a VERY long time ago, and maybe a unique situation, but I’m pretty sure we lost HALF of my freshman class, and nobody thought it was unusual.</p>
<p>This is from 2007</p>
<p><a href=“https://www.aamc.org/download/102346/data/[/url]”>https://www.aamc.org/download/102346/data/</a></p>
<p>We lost at least 20 if not 30 of my classmates during my first semester. They were all, if I remember correctly, Early Assurance Program students who were guaranteed medical school admission based upon high school grades, SATs, and interviews. The program ended because of it. My understanding is that the drop out rate is extremely low in medical school. My class was in the mid 90s.</p>
<p>It has indeed gotten very low. The competitiveness of the process means a large degree of selection occurs at the admissions stage, and that’s selected from the group that actually bothered to apply, which is selected from the group that actually took the MCAT, which is selected from the group of college pre-meds who decided to take the MCAT, which is selected from the group of high school students that applied to the given college. Also, frankly, the schools don’t want kids to drop out so if you fail a course or two you’ll remediate it. The only mention of guaranteed failing out of my school I can find is 3 fails of Step 1 or Step 2.</p>
<p>We had 5 or 6 out of 140 drop out during 1st year - 2 of which were medical leaves and came back. 2 people delayed starting 3rd year for step 1 (one voluntarily wanted more time to study, the other failed the first time).</p>
<p>I seem to remember losing the bulk with that test between second and third year, although I remember calling them “part 1” and part 2". It is also possible some that were in my class took it again and graduated later. I am fortunate to have gone through at an earlier time, because I was a pretty sketchy student in undergrad, but the “boards” were never a problem.</p>
<p>"^ Wow! It was a VERY long time ago, and maybe a unique situation, but I’m pretty sure we lost HALF of my freshman class, and nobody thought it was unusual."
-Yes, it has been a long time. They are not called “freshmen”, they are called “first year”. Boards are “Step 1” and “Step 2”. Step 1 is usually taken after 2nd year, but some might choose to take it a bit later. I have to ask D. again. I blieve I have asked in her second year and she said that none has dropped out and one postponed.
Med. School invest so much selecting the students, it helps them to go thru rough time and try hard to retain them. We were told that in a session before White Coat ceremony.</p>
<p>Ok, I’ll admit I’m confused: which medical school had a 50% attrition rate after first year? I reviewed the chart shrink sent and it seems to indicate that a very high majority of students-even way back when in 2007-finished med school. My experience goes back to the 80s, and while there were people who left, there weren’t very many.</p>
<p>this question is still eating at me. </p>
<p>I ask, how does a HS senior know what he wants to do. All signs lead this way, but now, to the selecting colleges bit?? </p>
<p>I will answer before I ask…“go where you would be happy should you change your major”…but the question is, “how much should your alleged major influence your college selection?”</p>
<p>the issue being, a smaller GREAT spot for the pre med route, would be a good choice for anything, but maybe not where (knowing in advance he were to pursue law or something else) he would go. Trinity U, Rhodes, etc.</p>
<p>and another school he would be interested in on a more all around aspect, has a reputation for grade deflation, Work Forest. Or is this undeserved. </p>
<p>really, just a public venting.</p>
<p>I wish I could ‘like’ WayoutWestMom post like at sdn where she mentions high schools don’t prepare you. The last time I had a convo about job opportunities was at 8th grade, are you kidding me? I only met my HS counselor when I needed my recommendation, outside of that…nothing. Same with college counselors…a true waste of my time since they are all about asking what you want to do. If I myself don’t know, isn’t that the job of an advisor to tell me?
Anyways, I highly recommend you suggest your son to choose a practical major. There is nothing wrong in choosing theoretic sciences like bio, chem, and physics but as I spent my semesters away on my classes, I grew annoyed that despite amazing academic rankings in each respective theoretic subject, students complained on how they were getting jobs at not-well-to-do areas or just plain boring companies. Additionally, students become really weak in their academics b/c these majors are easier to fill with humanities vs a practical degree. I noticed a severe disregard for my future when I was trying to compete with every pre-med I met in the theoretic programs. You have very little direction in what type of important classes you need to take for med school. Adcoms say to relax and do what is required but I feel like if you are set on becoming a physician why not do something like ‘hospital management’, ‘epidemiology’…etc that gives you direct job experience and knowledge on what else you could contribute to when you get into med school. It’ll also teach you on how to study and think like a clinician or healthcare member. Some students who did theoretics majors went to do volunteer work for a while and came back realizing their degree wasn’t what they wanted to go after because after seeing the real world they understood the importance of practicality. It’s funny that I started out accumulating credits for biostats and then ended up going elsewhere b/c at last minute I thought that the latter was more practical and could provide a better gap year support job. Had I been able to go in deeper, in hindsight, I would have planned better and could have attained 1 degree within the first 1.5 years. I still have mixed feelings about my major, so I definitely could have used better advising. My resume would have looked a lot nicer and everything would have made sense. This all should have started the junior year of high school. High schools put too much weight on the schools you apply over what you will actually do at the college. That’s not right and I wish that beyond inspiring ppl to actually attend a college, why not question the people on what they will do once they get there cause nowadays a college degree is just another paper to add to your portfolio unless you’ve utilized your resources to the best extent.</p>
<p>In summary, tell your son to do a major that has practical use and can earn him a job if he decides to delay or totally remove the med school idea. It is the single thing I learned from wandering around and trying to ‘act’ as an academic. Majoring in theoretical fields may make job providers say “hmm, impressive, I could never do that” but in the end, you won’t get the job. If you are willing to take that risk, it would serve you well since it shows true passion. If you are just dilly-dallying, then it is best to get out immediately and try finding something that shows you are a responsible adult.
P.S. I also know of phys/chem majors that instead got jobs as consultants and were making bank after graduation but those ppl are extremely charismatic and might even hold a minor in business/prior internship experience as analysts.</p>
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<p>Lol, if you meant to spell it out like that then it is a clever way to write out the title of the school haha.</p>