Is Michigan weak in any way?

<p>^ just because I have never really seen a thread on here where someone begins “I believe my school isn’t weak in any way”, and then everyone else who also attends the same college agrees</p>

<p>Nova, that’s because Michigan is well rounded. At the same time, there have been mention of several areas of improvement.</p>

<p>People mentioned strengths and weaknesses. Mostly strengths, but areas like advising, fellowships (Rhodes Marshall, etc), weather, and aid to OOS students were some of the cons mentioned.</p>

<p>Sent from my iPhone using CC</p>

<p>North Campus is a con, I think. They really need to do some tweaking with classes and housing so that engineers are put on north campus as freshmen but are able to take their freshman classes completely on north campus, and the same thing for LSA students on central campus.</p>

<p>They are EXTREMELY stingy with merit-aid, and although some may argue, their in-state is pretty high in comparison to other MI schools as well as other top publics (ie UNC-chapel hill). It may become difficult for middle class MI residents to afford it without taking out hefty loans or struggling because they are paying for something beyond their means. This is especially true for those who have several children enrolled in college at the same time.</p>

<p>The weather here is nearly unbearable. Besides all the snow during the cold harsh winters (which typically last anywhere from end of Oct-Beg of May), the state barely sees any sunshine until late june/early july. Its absolutely ridiculous! </p>

<p>Arrogant. If there was one word i could use to describe both the staff and some (not all) students would be arrogance. There is a clear difference between school pride and arrogance, but those associated with the university have not yet learned it. They themselves believe that theyre better and therefore entitled to something</p>

<p>BuB, Michigan costs $12,500 for IS students, compared to $11,500 at MSU. Most public universities cost between $10,000-$12,500 for IS students. UNC is truly a bargain, but it is more of an exception than a rule. Michigan may be slightly more expensive than other publics, but it is not significant.</p>

<p>You also grossly overstate Michigan’s weather. Ann Arbor is no colder or cloudier than any city in New England (half the Ivies including Harvard, Cornell, Brown, Dartmouth and many LACs are located in such weather) or northern Midwest (Chicago, Madison, Minneapolis etc…).</p>

<p>I am not going to lower myself to your level and address your comment about arrogance.</p>

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<p>Not really. They’re extremely generous in comparison to other top-notch institutions. There are probably over a hundred students in every class that are fully merit-funded (tuition, room, board, etc…) and several hundred more with at least 5 figure yearly scholarships.</p>

<p>Ok maybe i should have rephrased my statement. Umich cost of attendance (not tuition) is ~5000 more per year than Michigan state. So maybe their tuition is about the same rate, however, room & board and other fees are not. </p>

<p>In terms of weather, i never compared it to any NE privates so i do not even see how that is relevant…i do not see why it matters whether MI or NE states are colder when the bottom line is that they are both COLD! what difference does it make? i was saying in relation to other warm areas. </p>

<p>You are living proof (a PERFECT example) of my statement about arrogance. Youre not going to “lower yourself to my level” to address me…Who are you? You sir, are no better than myself or anyone else. I have nothing against Michigan, matter of fact, i may attend this upcoming fall. Because like i said before some (NOT ALL) students are arrogant. I know several who arent. Many of my good friends attend there.</p>

<p>A few hundred people receiving scholarships within a class of 5000+ is NOTHING. I myself have a 10,000/yr scholarship, but the valedictorian from my school and several other top scholars from my high school received little more than maybe 1000/yr. For a school with an endowment so big, they should be able to provide more students with scholarships, especially when they are not eligible for significant FA.</p>

<p>Bub, even when you include room & board, Michigan is not $5,000/year more expensive than MSU. In fact, the two universities cost roughly the same for in-state students.</p>

<p>[Sample</a> Budgets | Office of Financial Aid | Michigan State University](<a href=“http://finaid.msu.edu/sampbud.asp]Sample”>Manage Your Aid | Michigan State University)</p>

<p>[Cost</a> of Attendance](<a href=“http://www.finaid.umich.edu/TopNav/AboutUMFinancialAid/CostofAttendance.aspx]Cost”>http://www.finaid.umich.edu/TopNav/AboutUMFinancialAid/CostofAttendance.aspx)</p>

<p>“In terms of weather, i never compared it to any NE privates so i do not even see how that is relevant…i do not see why it matters whether MI or NE states are colder when the bottom line is that they are both COLD! what difference does it make? i was saying in relation to other warm areas.”</p>

<p>If Michigan were an exception, I would understand your point. But since most good universities are located in areas that have cold winters, I was right to point out the concept of relativity. 10 of the top 30 universities and 15 of the top 30 LACs are located in parts of the country that have winters that are as cold (if not colder) than SE Michigan. Another 10 of the top 30 universities are located in areas like New Jersey, New York, DC, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Baltimore etc… which may not be as cold but are not much warmer. Only 30% of the top universities are located parts of the country that have “nice weather”.</p>

<p>“You are living proof (a PERFECT example) of my statement about arrogance. Youre not going to “lower yourself to my level” to address me…Who are you? You sir, are no better than myself or anyone else.”</p>

<p>I agree that I am no better than anyone else, which is why I refuse to judge an entire student body as you do with such ease. Judging an entire student body of 40,000 to be arrogant is not worth responding to. Students at the University are no more arrogant than students at any other peer institution. My only other experience was Cornell, and I did not see a difference in attitude between those two universities.</p>

<p>No looking back, the weather comparison comment still has no basis. your question asked on this forum was “Is michigan weak in any way?”. And i yes, it is. the weather is one weakness (however big or small that weakness be). Yes, it may be a weakness at a ton of other schools as well, but it still stands that it is one at michigan.
Then you go on to say “Even the nasty weather has its benefits” but never justify it. i would really like to know how its beneficial so that maybe i could have a more positive outlook on it. so please enlighten me :)</p>

<p>In regards to the arrogance comment. You obviously need to improve on your reading skills because if you notice i directly state “…some (not all) students.” from this i do not see how you say i am judging 40000 plus individuals.</p>

<p>like i said i have nothing against UofM. In fact, i think it is overall a great institution both academically and socially. But that does not mean it does not have its faults (that many have tried to point out). i was simply stating my (as well as others i know) opinions/perceptions of the university. Continue to defend the school until the death of you…i could careless. im done trying to have a discussion with you. You ask a question then automatically become defensive (if not offended) when others respond. its amazing. but good luck with the rest of your studies…i wish you the best!</p>

<p>Bub, there is going to be arrogant people everywhere. That is not a weakness, it is life. I do not think Michigan’s student body is noteworthingly arrogant. The way you phrased made it seem that arrogance is more prevalent at Michigan than at other universities. </p>

<p>As for the weather, I see benefits to four seasons. I personally grew up in a country that has two seasons and I enjoyed my winters in Michigan. If you consuder a trait shared by a third to half of the top universities to be a weakness, then yes, Michigan’s winters are a weakness.</p>

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<p>Why does the valedictorian from your school automatically deserve a merit scholarship at UM? There’s many hundreds of high schools in Michigan. That’d be a ton of scholarships, if this was some kind of rule.</p>

<p>I also don’t see the relationship between the endowment and scholarships. The vast majority of scholarships aren’t funded from the endowment (which is perfectly natural - providing scholarships isn’t really the point of the endowment.) Besides, the top schools in terms of endowments (Harvard, Yale, etc…) don’t offer any merit scholarships whatsoever. Compared to them, Michigan is incredibly kind.</p>

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<p>It has plenty of faults, but some of the ones you’ve listed here are just not fair.</p>

<p>Alexandre, those statements are fair enough. </p>

<p>Actually tetra, according to the university’s website “The University’s endowment is essential to sustaining academic quality because it provides a guaranteed, never-ending source of income to support professorships, student scholarships, innovative programs and learning opportunities.” So student scholarships are a part of the endowment. I never said it was the entire part, but it is definitely some. With one of the largest endowments in the country (which claims to provide a guaranteed never-ending source…), all im saying is that they could do a little better. Many of those ivies you named are also more generous in their financial aid giving. Ooh and I never said the valedictorians all automatically deserved a scholarship, but like I said before the university could do a little better in distributing the funds, (especially for some of the state’s top scholars, not only gpa-wise but test scores and other factors as well). It can be a way of ensuring that they stay instate rather than losing them to other parts of the country.</p>

<p>1) Advising: Michigan seriously needs to hire more advisors to combat the large student population.</p>

<p>2) Release admissions data earlier. I feel like almost every college has their data released except Michigan.</p>

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<p>I stand corrected. The reason I said what I said is because the scholarship societies I was familiar with were funded externally (IE, bequests, donations, etc…) I agree that Michigan could stand to increase their merit funding, but I still believe that they’re not among the worst offenders when it comes to being stingy with merit. I also think it’s an issue of perspective. Michigan has such a huge student population that scholarship recipients, even if there’s a lot of them, tend to be invisible in the overall crowd.</p>

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<p>I definitely agree with this. Advising was pretty uniformly terrible in my and my friends experience.</p>

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<p>Agree with this as well. Really a complete overhaul of the way they handle admissions is in order.</p>

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<p>Personally, I find advisers largely useless and dislike how advising was shoved down our throats first year. Perhaps it would be easier if they just published all data regarding majors, class equivalents, dual-degrees, etc. in 1 place and trust that everyone admitted is literate. With systematic changes, I don’t see why more advisers are needed necessary:</p>

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<li><p>Students should be able to read about what their major requires and select their classes accordingly. If U of M admits student who cannot do this, then they need to fix their admissions, not hire more advisers. </p></li>
<li><p>Removing all enforced prerequisites will ensure no one will need to get an override. Reserved seats could just be opened up on the first day of classes or it could be up to the professor (if it’s not already, I don’t know) to allow students locked out by reserved seats. They could additionally charge a per credit hour fee for signing up for classes beyond 18 credits a semester and remove the maximum credit restriction. Even if they didn’t, you don’t need many advisers to reject/approve credit overloads. </p></li>
<li><p>Declaring a major should be electronicized. I don’t see why an adviser and a paper form needs to be involved in the process. If paying tuition is electronic it makes no sense that declaring a major should be paper form. </p></li>
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<p>I know I haven’t covered everything but I think that’s enough to prove my point. Advisers are/should be mostly unnecessary. The roles they fill are either to solve problems the university has artificially created or to create a service which doesn’t need to be created.</p>

<p>on the issue of merit scholarships, i know an incoming freshmen IS with a 35 ACT(for got his calculator and so ruined his 36), has a 4.0 UW GPA, and has taken Calc1, Calc2, Multivariable Calc, Differential Equations, Linear Algebra, Complex Analysis, Freshmen Biology, and 4 Computer Science courses at MSU. He did NOT receive a merit scholarship. I have absolutely no idea why he doesn’t qualify for a merit scholarship. What more could a student do to deserve a scholarship? Cure Cancer?</p>

<p>P.S. this is NOT myself…just a close friend</p>

<p>mjmay, there are literally 500 or so such students who enroll into Michigan annually. The University cannot give them all merit scholarships.</p>

<p>Although I agree that advising at Michigan has room for improvement, I think advising is highly overrated. Neither I nor most of the people know have used adivsers when applying to graduate school, and we all did very well. 22-25 year old students do not really require much assitance from advisors. I think building ties with faculty is much more beneficial than having an advisor. Building relationships with faculty is the same process at virtually all research universities.</p>

<p>I think advising for fellowships such as Rhodes and Marshall are a definite area of concern. </p>

<p>I also think that LSA’s career office is weak relative to those at the CoE and Ross.</p>

<p>football is their only weakness</p>