Is Michigan weak in any way?

<p>So it may have already been addressed here but your topic spans quite the time & hopefully someone can directly answer this. How are the professors at Michigan? Some schools are known for their research (then in turn for having poor EDUCATING professors <em>I have no time to help you, just read & take my test</em>). </p>

<p>My learning disability requires me to have interaction and clarification some times & I cannot attend a school that the majority of professors are their to do research. All good if they are, I just cannot learn this way. </p>

<p>Your advise and consideration are greatly appreciated!</p>

<p>@owlbay - Are you stating that Michigan has a focus on research rather than educating? I say this in a non-offensive matter, I just want to know the teaching styles at this university & hopefully can find an answer without traveling 950 miles for a college visit. .</p>

<p>steveholts, Michigan has over 2,000 teaching professors. You are bound to get professors who really care about teaching and others who do not. Overall, Michigan is one of the few research elites that is known for undergraduate attention and instruction. However, Michigan is still a major research university, and undergrads are expected to be independent learners, able to figure things out on their own. Faculty generally teach well and will almost always make time during office hours to meet any student that requires additional help, but if your learning disability requires a lot of attention from faculty, I do not think a research university is right for you. You would be better off going to a Liberal Arts College. Which state do you hail from if you do not mind my asking?</p>

<p>Some are accessible. Some try to avoid even their office hour obligation, and you can basically only talk to them for like 30 seconds before/after class, or they allow questions to be asked during. Lectures are usually more interactive than we’d expect. Yes, in general they care more about research. As an example, after taking an RA position I’ve had by far more time with my old prof than when I was taking his class, which is kind of awkward.</p>

<p>At any college though, you’re gonna have to do things for yourself more than in high school. What Alexandre says about independent learners is very true. You’re in class 15 hrs/wk only. Any research college, regardless of student:faculty ratio, will be like this. They simply have to devote most time to research. The benefit to this is they’re experts who can answer basically anything. Even if they show up to office hours though, your schedule may conflict or others will be there too. This is one thing I’d add to this thread: Too few give out office hours before registration. If there is a GSI, they can also be helpful (and annoying).</p>

<p>Visiting for a tour won’t help much with your particular question, as I don’t think they sit in on any classes, but there is a disability office. They can’t force your prof to spend hours with 1 student, but may provide a tutor or something. I think you should give them a call if you’re considering attending. [url=&lt;a href=“http://ssd.umich.edu/]Welcome”&gt;http://ssd.umich.edu/]Welcome</a> | SSD<a href=“734”>/url</a> 763-3000</p>

<p>Steverholts, depending on the degree of your LDs, as other posters have explained well, any large school will require a lot of initiative to navigate, and a Socratic, small-class style of liberal arts college could suit you better. However, as a parent of a child who has both LDs and is gifted, I’ve also heard from parents with children at LACs who have the same problems with fewer resources.</p>

<p>So on Michigan’s behalf, I will say that there is a strong LD support center available for those students who use it, whereby you can receive some coaching about time management, etc. To access these services you will need a new, adult neuropsych evaluation at 18 no matter how well documented your LD has been in the past. Depending on your LD, if you’re granted accommodations such as extra time on tests, you will find a majority of profs will accommodate that if you’re organized about communicating. Also, if you have processing speed issues (which it sounds like you might) you might find that using a.dictaphone device or reviewing notes the most profs record and post on ctools will help you keep up. For some LD students there are note-taking services. While mich is strict about documenting these needs, they’re actually better than many schools at helping the students themselves develop the management skills required to succeed in terms of having the resources available. But keeping up with the material and staying on top of assignments can be challenging when it takes longer to process/digest/master the material. The pace is the pace, and having an LD in university is very different than high school, where the goal in the latter is to have everyone pass or master the material. At this level, it’s really all on you to manage.</p>

<p>For this reason, there are some programs out there that are designed especially for students with LDs, like at the University of Denver or the Landmark program on the east coast. Another good strategy if you’re not sure you’re ready is to start out at an in-state school closer to home, master university style independent learning, then transfer to the more expensive schools. That’s because there’s normally extra pressure if you’re a scholarship student to maintain a particular GPA or else lose the money.</p>

<p>That said, my son is graduating this year and has loved his experience at UMich. In his case, parts of his program are hands-on and play to his natural talents (in music, composition and technology) so while he still has a lot of challenges with time management, his LD hasn’t consistently created a problem…but in his engineering classes and a few other things he’s had a tougher go than the average bright, gifted kid might, because like you, he responds best to Socratic style instruction but without it takes a long time to process the information (and even longer to master the work.)</p>

<p>The strategies and organizational skills that many LDs entail do improve over time; the executive function center of the brain continues to develop in your 20s. If you make careful choices, you can in fact succeed, but its worth noting that in my son’s type of LD, only 5% of people with it graduate college. So it’s worth talking in advance with the LD facilities, if available, at any of the schools you’re interested in attending, and preparing yourself for the possible challenge. Some students with LDs do very well in the structured environment of high school because the material and approach are easier. Rigorous, top schools can be a shock to the system.</p>

<p>I hope this is helpful to you. If you’re still interested in Michigan and IF you have a natural skill with languages, you might enjoy the small-classes of the RC program at Umich. My son has trouble with languages since has also has central auditory processing issues, but had he not, the seminar styles there would have suited him well. There is an intense language sequence that is part of that program. And depending on your degree, you still take additional large-lecture style classes and regular upper level classes, but it would otherwise give you a smaller setting in which to begin.</p>

<p>Best wishes in finding the right fit!</p>

<p>PS in response to your question, our experience has been that if you’re in communication with a prof at Umich and have an LD, the majority can be exceptionally generous with their time. That alone, however, is not enough to succeed in this kind of setting. That is why I discussed the aspect of resources and the development of the skills necessary to succeed and the focus being on self-management, self-advocacy, and being intent on “getting what you need” from the bounty of study groups, support, LD coaching, tutoring, etc.</p>

<p>

And there’s a lot of competition looking to do so as well…from Yale, to Duke, to UVA, to USC…</p>

<p>^^^All they have to do is steal a few from Cal. They have so many star faculty noone would really miss a dozen or two. :-)</p>

<p>UCB, where the sciences are concerned, Michigan is in much better shape than Duke (with the exception of the Life Sciences), USC or UVa.</p>

<p>BIOLOGY</p>

<h1>13 Duke (4.3/5.0)</h1>

<h1>20 Michigan (4.1/5.0)</h1>

<h1>46 USC (3.4/5.0)</h1>

<h1>46 UVa (3.4/5.0)</h1>

<p>CHEMISTRY</p>

<h1>16 Michigan (4.1/5.0)</h1>

<h1>45 Duke #45 (3.3/5.0)</h1>

<h1>45 UVa (3.3/5.0)</h1>

<p>USC not ranked in the top 50</p>

<p>EARTH SCIENCE</p>

<h1>9 Michigan (4.1/5.0)</h1>

<h1>25 USC (3.6/5.0)</h1>

<p>Duke and UVa unranked</p>

<p>MATHEMATICS</p>

<h1>8 Michigan (4.5/5.0)</h1>

<h1>24 Duke (3.8/5.0)</h1>

<p>USC and UVa unranked in the top 45</p>

<p>PHYSICS</p>

<h1>11 Michigan (4.2/5.0)</h1>

<h1>30 Duke (3.5/5.0)</h1>

<h1>40 UVa (3.3/5.0)</h1>

<p>USC not ranked in the top 50</p>

<p>Michigan is clearly stronger in the sciences than Duke, USC or UVa. In the case of Michigan, Science is a weakness relative to its other programs in the Social Sciences, Humanities and Engineering, all of which are ranked well in the top 10. But in the Sciences, Michigan is still very strong. In all, only half dozen universities (Cal, Caltech, Harvard, MIT, Princeton and Stanford) are better than Michigan in the Sciences.</p>

<p>Alex, my point wasn’t to compare those programs. It has just been publicized that those schools I mentioned are aware of their weakness in STEM fields and looking to add star faculty.</p>

<p>That was my point UCB, Michigan is not weak in the STEM fields. Michigan has a top 10 Medical School, a top 10 College of Engineering, and has top 10 departments in the Mathematics, Earth and Physical Sciences. Only Chemistry and Biology are ranked out of the top 10, and even those are still ranked among the top 20 nationally. Overall, Michigan is a clear top 10 university on the STEM fields.</p>

<p>That being said, if Michigan wishes to be as strong in Biology and Chemistry as it is in the Humanities and Social Sciences, it will have to hire a couple of superstars</p>

<p>

No university in the world is in “much better shape” in the sciences than Duke besides Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Berkeley. You once again favor the outdated USNWR graduate rankings which are purely based on Peer Assessment but don’t actually use statistics to actually measure PhD Placement, Financial Resources, Faculty Productivity, Strength of Graduate Students Enrolled, etc. Peer Assessment is a lagging indicator of actual program quality Alexandre and Duke has significantly improved its faculty in every core field of academic study in the past decade.</p>

<p>The new USNWR Graduate Edition which is due on March 12th will show just how mighty Duke has become. In the meantime, for fairness purposes, lets see how Duke, UM, USC, and UVA compare in the NRC Rankings which are the authority on this matter and included data which has been more recently compiled.</p>

<p>Mathematics
[NRC</a> Rankings Overview: Mathematics - Faculty - The Chronicle of Higher Education](<a href=“http://chronicle.com/article/NRC-Rankings-Overview-/124743/]NRC”>http://chronicle.com/article/NRC-Rankings-Overview-/124743/)
Michigan: 4-12
Duke: 14-47
USC: 45-74
UVA: 50-74</p>

<p>Physics
[NRC</a> Rankings Overview: Physics - Faculty - The Chronicle of Higher Education](<a href=“http://chronicle.com/article/NRC-Rankings-Overview-Physics/124754/]NRC”>http://chronicle.com/article/NRC-Rankings-Overview-Physics/124754/)
Michigan: 14-30
Duke: 30-73
UVA: 38-86
USC: 83-142</p>

<p>Chemistry
[NRC</a> Rankings Overview: Chemistry - Faculty - The Chronicle of Higher Education](<a href=“http://chronicle.com/article/NRC-Rankings-Overview-/124713/]NRC”>http://chronicle.com/article/NRC-Rankings-Overview-/124713/)
Michigan: 11-38
Duke: 21-59
USC: 32-81
UVA: 41-91</p>

<p>Statistics
[NRC</a> Rankings Overview: Statistics and Probability - Faculty - The Chronicle of Higher Education](<a href=“http://chronicle.com/article/nrc-statistics/124660/]NRC”>http://chronicle.com/article/nrc-statistics/124660/)
Michigan: 3-11
Duke: 10-36
UVA: 38-59
USC: N/R</p>

<p>Computer Science
[NRC</a> Rankings Overview: Computer Sciences - Faculty - The Chronicle of Higher Education](<a href=“http://chronicle.com/article/NRC-Rankings-Overview-/124721/]NRC”>http://chronicle.com/article/NRC-Rankings-Overview-/124721/)
Michigan: 10-25
Duke: 14-27
USC: 16-35
UVA: 25-43</p>

<p>As you can see, Duke and Michigan are peers in the Hard/Natural Sciences with Michigan having a clear edge, although this is trivial at the undergraduate level. USC/UVA are a step down but a motivated student can definitely get a lot out of either of these institutions in the Sciences.</p>

<p>goldenboy, you must be kidding. First of all, just because you do not agree with the USNWR graduate rankings does not make it outdated or inaccurate. The NRC rankings are a joke, and I say that despite the fact that Michigan is ranked among the top 10 overall. But even if they weren’t, your data above proves my point. Mathematics and Physics are not even close, and Chemistry is also clearly stronger at Michigan. And Michigan is also clearly stronger than Duke in the Earth Sciences.</p>

<p>Oh man…looks like my comment spurred some fierce debate. Again, my intention was not to compare these programs. I was responding to an observers comment that Michigan needs to shore up hard science faculty…all I said was Michigan has competition among all research institutions to do so. I just mentioned those schools because they have publicly stated the need to recruit star faculty.</p>

<p>It just proves, once again, that Michigan has no academic weaknesses. There are only a handful of schools in this country that can make that claim.</p>

<p>Michigan is perceived as a better place for graduate level programs. Even the faculty members of Duke, recognize that Berkeley and Michigan are ahead of many elite private universities when it comes to STEM programs. For the sake of peace on this board, let us accept that Michigan and Duke are peers:)</p>

<p>“For the sake of peace on this board, let us accept that Michigan and Duke are peers.”</p>

<p>Now you just have to convince the Dukies here on CC. lol</p>

<p>“Now you just have to convince the Dukies here on CC. lol”</p>

<p>Heck rjk, I would settle for convincing Dukies on the Michigan forum. All of CC would be too much to ask for! ;)</p>

<p>Rintu, if you read threads on the Michigan forum (whether it is Michigan vs Vanderbilt, Michigan vs Emory, Michigan vs Duke, Michigan vs Northwestern etc…), the general consensus by Michigan students and alums is that they are all peer undergraduate institutions. There may be some shameless chest bumping and fist pumping, claiming that Michigan is stronger academically, or that Michigan is more well-rounded socially, but the bottom line is that they are peer institutions. </p>

<p>The problem are private university supporters who come on the Michigan forum and bash Michigan, claiming that the private option is superior. I do not need to point any fingers, we all know who they are! ;)</p>

<p>Key words “by Michigan students and alums.” I’m not saying I disagree with you, I’m just saying I think supporters of the other universities arrive at different consensuses. </p>

<p>In general I don’t think any of the “this school vs that school” threads ever arrive at a general consensus overal, rather they just go on and on until the thread dies, but there’s hardly resolution.</p>

<p>That may be true reddog, but at least Michigan students and alums are classy enough to consider other top universities peers. The unjustified sense of entitlement and superiority that many students and alums of private universities have is pathetic. I suppose this sense of humility is another strength of the University, one that is not shared among many elite institutions.</p>

<p>I’m going to play devils advocate here…</p>

<p>I do think in general public school students and alumni are less pretentious. I also think sometimes private school students and alumni look down on public school’s that are arguably as good. However, I do think some people can think that a certain public school is worse than a certain private school without it being pretentious. Don’t get me wrong, there are plenty of posters on CC that unfairly bash certain schools (and publics can be especially susceptible to these unfair bashings) but I also think there are plenty of instances and posters that convey why they think their private school is better than a certain public in a classy and unbiased way.</p>