Is Michigan weak in any way?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Michigan
761

<p>“I also think there are plenty of instances and posters that convey why they think their private school is better than a certain public in a classy and unbiased way.”</p>

<p>In most instances, when it comes to comparing any private school other than HYPSM, no private university is better than Cal, Michigan or UVa for undergraduate education. They do not have more money, they do not have smaller classes in comparable courses, they do not enhance chances of placement into graduate school or desirable jobs etc…When a person claims that a private university is superior to a public such as Cal, Michigan or UVa, they do it out of ignorance by naively pointing out some flawed data that has clearly been tampered with or presented in a way to favor one university over another.</p>

<p>Let us leave it at that reddog. This thread is dedicated to Michigan, not to other universities.</p>

762

<p>Well in terms of value, I mean to pay $0 due to in state is a pretty damn good deal even, yes, compared to Duke. I didn’t have to take the SAT either, thank god. I also am wary of private schools due to the lack of rights students often have by comparison, which does lure some to Umich. My roommate for example picked it over Penn (he’s from PA too) for this reason. Now I’m sure not too many would turn down HYPSM, but other than that, there are good deals to be had for in staters especially.</p>

763

<p>Wow…just the fact that Michigan has this type of thread say’s it all!!! </p>

<p>It is by far the most recognized University private or public throughout the world. The block “M”.</p>

<p>Check this out:
[“The</a> Letter M” - The University of Michigan - YouTube](<a href=“"The Letter M" - The University of Michigan - YouTube”>"The Letter M" - The University of Michigan - YouTube)</p>

764

<p>I can and will!!! No other University garners the same name branding, period.</p>

765

<p>senna4ever, while Michigan has a very robust reputation and brand, I would say Harvard beats it handily! :wink: If memory serves, Harvard had the most powerful brand on Earth, not just among universities, but among all organizations! Stronger even than Coca Cola!</p>

<p>I am an alumnus of Cornell and Michigan. In my experience the two universities are perceived in the same way. It is not surprising considering that Cornell was co-founded and run by Michigan men (Andrew Dickson White, co-founder of Cornell, and 50% of Cornell presidents were either Michigan alums or faculty). </p>

<p>Obviously, “recognition” and “prestige” are very subjective. They vary from person to person, family to family, community to community, age group to age group, state to state, region to region, country to country, profession to profession etc… No matter how you look at it, however, there are only two types of “prestige” that matter:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Prestige among the intellectual elite (university faculty, researchers, leading intellectuals etc…)</p></li>
<li><p>Prestige in corporate circles</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Those are the people who will evaluate your credentials in ways that actually have an impact on your life, because they are the ones who will admit you into graduate school or hire you into their company. </p>

<p>As steellord mentioned in his post, only HYPSM have a stronger reputations in those circles. According to any real US-based survey conducted in academe, Michigan is usually rated among the top 10 or top 15 undergraduate institutions in the country (with no real difference between #6 and #20. There has not been any reliable and exhaustive survey on undergraduate institutions conducted by US companies. A Fortune 500 survey of leading Management figures (HR executives, CFOs, CEOs etc…) would be interesting to be sure.</p>

<p>All other prestige has no real value. While impressing impressionable high schoolers and ignorant/naive parents is always fun, it has no real meaning.</p>

766

<p>To respond to OPs original question: Is michigan weak in any way?- I would say Michigan’s biggest weakness is its image and the way it is perceived. </p>

<p>Right or wrong, At the national level overal Michigan isn’t regarded as prestigiously and doesn’t quite have the same name-brand recognition as some others I’ll leave unmentioned (to keep this about Michigan). Michigan has the academics and the overal college experience to compete with the best of 'em, but at the national level it’s name isn’t quite as unanimously recognized.</p>

767

<p>Mikejohnson, I assume you are referring to high school students, in which case you are correct. Teenagers rely almost entirely on the USNews rankings. Even then, Engineeering abd Business majors will accord Michigan the highest respect, often chosing it over private universities ranked ahead of it in the general ranking. However, if you want to gauge prestige among the intellectual elite, the peer assessment score is a very accurate source. According to it, Michigan is as prestigious as Brown, Cornell, Dartmouth, Duke, Johns Hopkins, northwestern, Penn and UVa for undergraduate. There is not prestige rating among corporate entities or among the educated masses, although a poll conducted by Gallup a few years ago (2004 I believe)showed that Michigan was as prestigious as all private universities save HYPSM. Among the educated masses (people with graduate degrees), Michigan was the 7th most prestigious university according to that gallup poll. From my experience in corporate setting (Lehman, Goldman, Ford, Mercer), and among people with similar education levels as mine, Michigan’s name is comparable to Cornell (my alma matter), Northwestern, Penn and UVA.</p>

768

<p>Here is a result of that 2003 poll Alexandre:</p>

<p>What about post-graduates themselves, who might be expected to know better than others what schools are prestigious, given that they applied to schools at least twice (for undergraduate and graduate work) and most likely spent a good deal of time evaluating schools? Here’s the list of schools most often mentioned by college graduates with at least some post-graduate education:</p>

<p>Harvard
29%</p>

<p>Stanford
27</p>

<p>Yale
14</p>

<p>MIT
11</p>

<p>Berkeley
7</p>

<p>Princeton
7</p>

<p>Michigan
7</p>

<p>Imagine that! A poll where Michigan is seen as more prestigious than Brown, Cornell, Dartmouth, Duke, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, Penn and UVa among the educated elite. Who would know better than those graduates? So much for your supposition Mikejohnson1342.</p>

769

<p>The prestige talk will go on and on forever but I think it comes down to how selective a school is in admissions. What I mean is that, inaccurately, that is how people judge prestige. To me its plain and simple that people measure prestige by that statistic. If most people can’t get in it “must” be prestigious. Silly yes, but I think its what people measure.</p>

<p>Michigan has taken hits to its “prestige” because statistically it has recently accepted a large percentage of applicants - 40+%. As Alexandre has pointed out many times that is rapidly changing and as the acceptance rate gets closer to say 20% I guarantee that all will suddenly see Michigan as a more prestigious place. I think its human nature - we want what we can’t have - so the tougher and tougher Michigan gets to be admitted the more the high school students and ignorant/naive parents will attach it to being prestigious.</p>

770

<p>rjk,</p>

<p>When I made my “supposition” I was taking into account all perceptions, not merely those who have post grad experience. Yes, the argument that “the intellectual elite and corporate recruiters opinions are the only ones that matter” is a valid one, but I was also accounting for average americans, high school students, and simply the american population at large. When you account for all these things, it is simply my opinion that the private schools, which again I’ll leave unmentioned, are overal regarded as more prestigious or have a stronger name-brand. I’m not saying it is right, nor am I saying Michigan isn’t equally as good as those privates, I’m just saying I think by in large this is a reality.</p>

771

<p>Did my post get deleted?</p>

772

<p>Probably. The moderator, Alexandre, deletes posts at his discretion. </p>

<p>Mikejohnson-</p>

<p>I don’t think anyone would disagree that the American population at large (encompassing all ranges of people) regards Cornell, Brown, and Duke in a slightly higher regard than Michigan. I think the disagreement lies with the validity of this opinion. The argument I think most Umich CCers are trying to make is that the american population at large unfairly regards Umich as inferior, when Umich is very much comparable to the likes of Duke, Brown, ect. This, of course, is their opinion and many people do disagree.</p>

773

<p>^^^^As has been demonstrated, it’s the uneducated masses that feel that way. The point that Alexandre has been making is that Michigan is held in high regard by those that matter.</p>

774

<p>…“but I was also accounting for average americans, high school students, and simply the american population at large.”</p>

<p>Average Americans have no clue where Duke, Brown, Cornell, or Johns Hopkins are even located. Does their opinion really even matter?</p>

775

<p>Maybe if you aren’t committed to elitism. :/</p>

776

<p>Rjk,</p>

<p>In terms of employment, no their opinion doesn’t matter. I would say their opinion matters as much as you, the individual, allow it to.</p>

777

<p>^^^^Agreed. :-)</p>

778

<p>Mikejohnson, I will not deny that among high school kids, Michigan is not as prestigious as some of its private peers. That’s because they rely on the USNWR college ranking, which is not at all favorable to public universities. </p>

<p>But in virtually all other quarters, from your regular everyday people to the most sophisticated and worldly intellectuals, Michigan is, on average, just as prestigious as Cornell or Northwestern or Penn. </p>

<p>I think the first gallup poll is a fairly strong indication of what the masses think. Harvard is far and away the most prestigious, while Stanford and Yale come in second place. MIT also does well, but it is not that far ahead of the rest of the pack. </p>

<p>The second poll, which focuses on people with graduate degrees, is a good gauge of what the highly educated think. Michigan is clearly very prestigious in those quarters, which is not surprising since people with graduate degrees are likely to think more highly of universities that are strong in their own area of specialization. With virtually every graduate program ranked in the top 10, and with all of them ranked in the top 20, there won’t be too many who will not respect Michigan. </p>

<p>[Harvard</a> Number One University in Eyes of Public](<a href=“Harvard Number One University in Eyes of Public”>Harvard Number One University in Eyes of Public)</p>

<p>Of course, in academe an among the intellectual elite, Michigan is one of the top 10 or top 15 universities in the nation too. Michigan’s PA is equal to Brown, Chicago, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Duke, JHU, Northwestern, Penn, UCLA and UVa.</p>

<p>There is no real poll on what top corporate figures in US Fortune 500 companies think, but given Michigan’s strength on the professional fields (particularly Engineering, Business and Law), I would not be surprised if it did as well. </p>

<p>Bottom line, and my own experience with being an alumnus of both Cornell and Michigan has clearly demonstrated this to me, Michigan is extremely prestigious.</p>

779

<p>bigdoglover, as you point out, among high schoolers and ignorant/superficial parents, selectivity and prestige sometimes go hand in hand. From that point of view, Michigan has not done as well as its private peers in recent years. However, that is also about to change. Michigan’s acceptance rate was 51% three years ago, 41% two years ago, 36% last year, and should drop to 30% this year. Next year, we could be looking at a 25% acceptance rate. Once the full effect of joining the common app is felt, Michigan’s acceptance rate will likely be under 20%.</p>

780

<p>The real disadvantage we found is lack of communication for undergraduate admission. Came to campus tour, interviewed with the Medical school and admissions adviser and neither even had my name, information that was sent, brochures, and the discussions were very lackluster. Their overall attitude was you need us more than we need you. Unweighted 4.0 GPA #1 in my class, heavy extracurriculars, awards, scholarships, work, volunteer, and research experience. 33 ACT. I was beyond disappointed at how cocky they all were since U of M was my top pick. Now have offers from: Yale, Notre Dame, and MSU (EA). Full ride plus stipend from MSU pre-med, full ride from the rest. Waiting for other responses. Have not heard anything from Michigan, I’m grateful that I found out early on how unresponsive they are so I wouldn’t be chasing.</p>