Disagreeing that Midd:Olaf = Stanford:UMiami for prestige!! Maybe Stanford:UNC-CH.
Starting med school (or anything in life) with $120K in debt- b/c it is $30K per year!- when you have a very strong alternative makes no sense.
Midd gets you a slightly fancier name on your car windscreen and your college sweatshirt. It does not get you into med school any better than St Olaf. It doesn’t get you a better ‘class’ of student. It doesn’t even get you better weather. And it gets you debt.
Before you decide, read [url=<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/data-mine/2014/10/07/student-loan-expectations-myth-vs-reality%5Dthis%5B/url”>http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/data-mine/2014/10/07/student-loan-expectations-myth-vs-reality]this[/url]. Is that bumper sticker still going to matter in 15 years when you are still paying off the debt?
@urbanslaughter: I agree that Middlebury’s high USNWR ranking does come with significant prestige effects. When taken into account, St. Olaf cannot be described as being similar to Middlebury in this area.
According to National Science Foundation data, 104 Middlebury alumni and 152 St. O. alumni earned PhDs in the life sciences from 2005-2014. In the same years, St. O alumni also earned more doctorates than Middlebury alumni did in the physical sciences (50 St. O v. 26 Midd) and in Math/CS (39 St. O v. 14 Midd).
Although the PhD production data is not conclusive evidence that St. O is a stronger science college, it adds to my doubts that Middlebury is clearly worth a big price premium for a prospective STEM or pre-med student.
Agree completely with tk. St.Olaf’s programs in math and the sciences are extremely well reputed and in league with Midds. In the SS and humanities this is generally not the case. With the cost differential involved and likelihood of debt to follow if med school happens, strongly support other posters recommendation to go with St O
(Full Disclosure: this coming from someone connected to that other Northfield MN LAC).
You come across as a considerate student who is thinking about your family. You say you could see yourself being happy at either school. You may just end up being happier at St Olaf, knowing that you are not financially burdening your future or your family.
^ Liberal arts colleges do not have the same “lay prestige” that universities do. Most educated people anywhere in the world will have heard of Harvard. I’d venture that less than 35% of the educated people in this country are familiar with Williams College.
Re #27: The value of the analogy to a layman would therefore be enhanced by that disparity, should it exist. That is, instructive analogies use elements from a more familiar set to increase the understanding of elements in a less familiar set.
@NerdyChica, that observation is spot-on. Neither of my Ph.D. educated co-workers that sit on either side of me at work had ever heard of Williams. Employers and grad schools, on the other hand, are a different story.
Honestly, for most majors, I would choose Middlebury because I think it would be an amazing experience. However, for Pre-med, it would probably be more difficult to maintain the GPA level that med schools are looking for. Therefore, in your case, I would choose St. Olaf and keep that GPA high.
@collegemom3717 you’re welcome to disagree. I was basing that comparison on relative rankings in USN&WR - Midd #4: St. Olaf #51. I also was not asserting that one was better than another, just looking for a more accurate comparison.
@tk21769 I would expect that disparity in numbers (St. Olaf has 31% more alums in Life science PhD programs. St. Olaf also has 33% more students.)
Thanks for all your responses! It is a bit difficult to turn down such a competitive school as Middlebury but I do love St. Olaf and am 99% sure that is where I will end up.
posts #22 and #32 indicate that St Olaf and Middlebury are the same on the parameters considered, or that St Olaf does better in the area of interest to @Katycollege16. Therefore, if they’re equal, Middlebury is not worth $30,000 more.
The food is arguably as good at both, the snow as common and as good a both, the Spring as late to come at both. S Olaf has the definite edge for music and Middlebury for skiing. Now, there are intangibles. Are those intangibles worth $30,000? I would tend to say they aren’t, but if OP’s parents have the money then only the three of them can decide. But rationally and especially considering OP has no intention of going into IB/consulting nor the foreign service, I wouldn’t spend 120K, make sure I use a little bit of the saved money for study abroad (I believe St Olaf has science-related/medical-related study abroad programs) and keep the 115K saved for med school.
I’m counting earned PhDs, not the number of enrolled PhD students. By my reckoning, St. O. alumni earned 46% more life science PhDs than Middlebury alumni did in the cited 10 year period (152 v. 104). According to Wikipedia, St. O. enrolled 3,034 students in 2014, only 20% more than Middlebury’s 2,526.
Maybe urbanslaughter and I are pointing to different sources, or to different years.
Or, perhaps more of St. O’s strongest students are gravitating to life sciences, for some reason.
I think it’s a closer question than the vast majority of the other respondents, but ultimately I probably fall in with the majority opinion. My D had a similar situation. A top 20 LAC with a merit award of $20k+ and guaranteed paid research opportunities vs. Ivy League schools, with no aid. She chose the Ivy League school and really, she never even considered the LAC. In terms of prestige, selectivity, name recognition, there’s really no comparison between St. Olaf and Middlebury. Granted, Middlebury is more well known for the liberal arts and languages but St. Olaf is really not even in the same conversation for most students. The OP has a number of factors that make this a bit different than my daughter’s situation, especially with the focus on med school and the need to borrow money for Middlebury (my D was thinking of pre-med but not wedded to it, and we do not have to take out any loans for tuition), so I think the OP has excellent reasons for choosing St. Olaf. For pre-med, it sounds like St. Olaf has great resources and a surprisingly good science track record that I was not aware of, and that’s probably the best reason of all, but I wouldn’t want to sell Middlebury short. You have to also consider the value of the degree with the possibility that you are not going to get a medical degree. Middlebury will have much better job prospects and its reputation is much stronger in the east coast job centers and with grad schools. The long term value of its education and reputation will probably surpass the financial incentives that St. Olaf is willing to give you today if you look at it without respect to the OP’s med school ambitions.
Unfortunately, the comment above is not true when it comes to mid-career income. The schools have little difference as reported by Payscale. Also, one could assume that the lower cost of living in the Midwest would make the earnings far more valuable.
In terms of graduate schools, that is not how graduate schools make admissions decisions, based on US News rankings. Data has already been provided refuting this.
Middlebury is not worth twice the cost.
This will sound silly but I doubt the OP, or others, would be hesitating if St. Olaf had a WASPY sounding name. St. Olaf is also religiously affiliated and that may play into it to some degree.