Middlebury Vs. Carleton Vs. Reed

College Search & Selection
1

Hi! My top three are Reed, Middlebury, and Carleton. (@ future students like me who see this, don’t worry so much!) I was pretty in love with Reed (accepted EA) but now that the others are in the picture, I’m leaning towards Midd but looking for some feedback.

About me/Context

-Female/ mixed (AA/EA) but from a suburb of Minneapolis so I’m fairly used to lack of diversity. Also bisexual.
-I would like to bio major(I genuinely love biology) and have some sort of minor (possibly classics) while following a pre-med track
-I’ll end up with around $120,000 of debt no matter where I go because my EFC is way higher than my actual FC (please don’t try to suggest state schools!)
-I love languages! Nearly fluent in French, okayish at Spanish, and am working on German
-Avid ceramic artist and nature/wildlife photographer
-Gluten Free and Pescetarian (since birth)

Reed

Pros
I really loved the campus (only one I got to visit), the weather, the two classes I visited were great, there’s a nearby Trader Joe’s, my friends would be quirky professor types, very queer, I wouldn’t have to worry as much about GPA (a huge source of anxiety during HS) and I vibed with the vibe (most important thing about Reed).

Cons

Lots of drugs (and weird drugs) and as someone who’s pretty susceptible to peer pressure/family history of addiction, that’s not great (my host did say she never felt pressured to use though). Reed has a certain attached reputation (smart but druggie) that I’m not thrilled about. Not a great rep for med schools (despite what they try to convey). I would be unlikely to study abroad due to the Junior qualifying exam and Senior thesis. Few to no parties (even though I’m not really the party type). I think I might leave Reed with extremely liberal (think buzzfeed) views. Not necessarily a negative, just not what I really want.

Carleton

Pros: really great school, has a “name” in Minnesota. Fits well with my personality and the vibe is very much in between Midd and Reed. Quirky but not too quirky. About 3,000 cheaper than the other two.

Cons: is within driving distance of my family.
For reasons unspecified, this is a bad/unfeasible idea.

Middlebury

Pros

Language- as a language lover, Midd is THE place to be (at least for LACs). Campus is supposedly gorgeous w/ a lot of study spots. As a lover of French, the proximity to Montreal is a plus. My brother is a senior at a college near Boston so I could possibly visit him during breaks/if he decides to live there. Middlebury seems to do a really great job of preparing students for med school. Great science facilities. I know most schools have kind people but MiddKids have a super nice vibe.

Cons

No one around me has heard of it (a minor annoyance). I’ve never really been a part of the prep school crowd/ people who wear vineyard vines and I’m a bit worried about that. All three schools are very “white” but Midd specifically has very few domestic students of color. There also is a hookup culture which isn’t really my scene and not a lot of gay girls (but wow are the guys fine). I’m not a huge fan of snow and cold even though I am quite used to it.
I can’t drive and won’t be likely to get a car anytime soon, so I’ll be stuck around campus. I’m kinda worried about getting bored and not feeling like I can escape.

I’m pretty set on Midd, but I wanted to get some last minute opinions. I am also waitlisted at Grinnell (the AO really liked me, I just forgot an essay) but I may be forced to go there by my parents if I get off the waitlist and the aid is great. Reed was the only one I was able to visit (thanks Covid!). I know when I was applying I read every single “Reed vs” thread so even if the info isn’t relevant to me it might help someone in the future. I’m just trying to collect some more info before my final choice!

2

Grinnell, if you get off the waitlist. Have you followed up with that? Honestly, I think you sound like a fantastic fit for Grinnell. In your shoes, I’d be emailing right now to express your interest and let them know you’ll attend if accepted. Meanwhile, you will probably have to deposit somewhere else. My vote then lies with Carleton. $12,000 is nothing to sneeze at, and I think it’s probably got the vibe that fits your sweet spot.

I know it’s close to home, but unless you feel that people are going to turn up on campus, home doesn’t have to be an intrusive presence. I know kids who attend colleges an hour or less away from their homes but only see their family once a month or less. I think Carleton is a little more nerdy than you think, but that’s a good thing IMO. The trimester system can be intense. Great for some kids though, and it has a high retention rate, so people are happy.

Middlebury is great, but I’m not certain it has the quite the vibe you are looking for. I don’t think it’s as preppy as you fear, and I don’t think you’ll be bored on campus though.

Frankly, if you’ll be paying that much money no matter what, your money will be best spent on Middlebury or Carleton. But ideally, you want to get off that Grinnell waitlist. Try to make that happen, because I truly think it’s your best outcome.

3

No, just no. And think about all the debt from med school. (Not to mention that you can’t borrow that kind of money anyway.)

If you have the quals for these schools, you could have easily earned a merit scholarship at a lower-ranked LAC. If UMinn is not your cup of tea, call around to other LAC’s to see if they are still entertaining applications AND would consider you for merit aid.

Don’t do any of these 3 at loans.

4

Middlebury may be subject to budget cuts following several years of deficit spending:

https://middleburycampus.com/49850/news/faculty-member-advocates-middlebury-let-go-of-monterey-institute/

And it finished on a bleak note socially this year:

https://vtdigger.org/2020/03/15/spike-in-vandalism-at-middlebury-as-students-prepared-to-leave-campus/amp/

Middlebury also faces strong competition in your group against the top-level biology programs of Reed and Carleton.

The above noted, I’m not discouraging you from your tentative choice. As examples of the potential attributes in Middlebury’s favor, it, as you noted, offers excellent language programs and good support for pre-med students. However, I think you have indicated sufficiently through your post that you should consider all of your options further before making your decision final.

Regarding finances, let’s hope your debt can be brought to a more manageable level than you have indicated. At this point your projection appears excessive.

5

Merit aid won’t change things as I am not full pay. The problem is my EFC will be 32,000 when my parents can only pay 3,000 per year. The problem is simply that my parents have high wages but little money to pay for my education.

6

I’m not sure if I replied to the correct person.

7

Despite budget shortfalls (which nearly every school in the country is now facing due to COVID-19), Middlebury remains in substantially better shape financially that your other choices.

And although merc81 thinks that an entire college should be judged on the actions of a few drunk idiots, I personally wouldn’t let that influence my college decision.

Middlebury is an amazing school in a beautiful part of the country. If you’re from Minnesota, I suspect the winters won’t be as bad as you might think.

I’m sorry you didn’t get a chance to visit Midd, as its campus is gorgeous.

8

Regarding my prior comments (reply 2), Middlebury did finish the year on a “bleak note.” It has experienced pre-virus budgetary issues.* It does offer “excellent language programs and good support for pre-med students.” In consideration of the totality of these aspects, I wrote that I wasn’t “discouraging” the OP from her tentative choice of Middlebury. My main opinion, actually, would be that she shouldn’t lock herself into a decision unnecessarily early, in that all three of her potential choices have a lot to offer.

*https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2019/01/30/higher-education-struggles-hit-vermont-hard/hiN0TRBKM147Qbdrvx4QHJ/story.html

9

Middlebury campus is stunning but my daughter did not like it there- felt the town was sleepy and the campus was too big for the number of students so it was quiet and boring.

I think the OP knows what $120,00 means and that med school will cost even more. She isn’t asking for our financial advice.

From your pros and cons it seems to me that Carlton is the best choice for you. The cons you listed for Midd seem like legit concerns for me. Same with Reed- which I would not put in the same league as the other 2 in terms of prestige and opportunities. I am sure Carleton will provide what you need in terms of language and study abroad possibilities.

As far as proximity to your family- I can’t comment on that. But as long as it’s not in the same town, it’s not like parents will be just popping in and bypassing security.

10

Note that by some measurable academic aspects, such as its student profile as measured by standardized scoring, Reed has typically landed among the top schools in the country.

https://www.businessinsider.com/the-610-smartest-colleges-in-america-2015-9

11

@merc81 You’ve posted that link to the Vermont Digger article on multiple threads in which students are asking for advice about college decisions, so clearly you think it’s an important factor in such decisions.

My point is that there 2,500+ students at Middlebury, the vast majority of whom ended the semester on a sad and uncertain but not bleak or destructive note. Neither you nor I can accurately deduce how many students where involved in said vandalism, but I’d be willing to wager that it’s a tiny percentage of the overall student body—maybe a dozen? Two dozen? We’ll probably never know for sure, but using this article to in some way define the student body as a bunch of destructive hooligans does a disservice to the thousands of students who weren’t involved.

Middlebury has indeed had problems balancing its budget for several years—due mainly to some bad financial decisions made by the previous administration. The college was due to balance its budget next year. That won’t happen now due to the pandemic, but many other colleges are now in the same boat. There’s a great NYTimes article about the impact of COVID-19 on colleges that everyone should read.

12

@arcadia: Your post above includes excellent points. I hope the OP considers them in her decision process. Regarding the subjective aspects of my posts, they’re limited on this thread to the specific topics I mentioned, and they’re intended to extend only that far. Nonetheless, I think it would be best for the OP not to become emotionally committed to any one school at this stage, and my earliest post on this thread may have reflected that.

13

I know you said you’d like to make this decision without considering finances, but PLEASE reconsider what this kind of debt for undergrad will do to your future. Only about 40% of the best and brightest in the country are accepted to med school. What happens if you don’t get in? You’ll have an undergrad biology degree, few job prospects, and gigantic debt that starts accruing interest immediately. Who will cosign for those loans? Parents? Will they be willing to pay them back when you can’t? Are you willing to live at home while attempting to make crushing payments each month?

What if you do get into medical school? You’ll graduate 4 years later into a low-paying residency with a half million dollars in loans. Do you have any idea what that kind of debt does to a person? Run some online calculators and find out.

If you are bright enough to get into these selective schools, you’re bright enough to bloom where you’re planted. Attend your state flagship or a regional school, earn a fabulous GPA, and give yourself a head start in life. Med school debt will be challenging enough to overcome; don’t add significant undergrad debt on top of it.

14

You cannot borrow more than $5,500 first year (increasing to $6,500, $7,500, $7,500 later years) without a cosigner. Since your parents do not have the money, it would be a bad idea for them to cosign, or take parent loans (and they may not qualify for them).

Even if they did borrow parent loans or cosigned student loans for you, $120,000 is a lot of debt, whether you go to medical school (to take on $400,000 more debt) or enter the work force with a biology degree (biology major job prospects are not that highly paid).

15

All three of these schools have similar financial aid policies and tend to be generous when it comes to need-based aid. I am frankly very surprised that all three accepted you with the expectation that you would take some 120k in loans. If they accepted you, they want you and I would go back to discuss their calculations with the financial aid offices.

If, for whatever reason, you can’t bring this sum down, I too would suggest that you look to more affordable options. Taking out over 100k in undergrad loans makes no sense for the reasons that others have stated.

All other things being equal, I would go with fit. You visited Reed and you liked the vibe and the classes. That says something. All three of these institutions are well known for the quality of their academics, and their preparation for students going to grad school or professional school. None of these schools are household names in many households in America since they are not large universities or have major sports programmes. They are household names, and held in similar high regard among post-graduate admissions committees everywhere (Full disclosure: I’m a Reed grad)

16

Hi! My top three are Reed, Middlebury, and Carleton. (@ future students like me who see this, don’t worry so much!) I was pretty in love with Reed (accepted EA) but now that the others are in the picture, I’m leaning towards Midd but looking for some feedback.

About me/Context

-Female/ mixed (AA/EA) but from a suburb of Minneapolis so I’m fairly used to lack of diversity. Also bisexual.
-I would like to bio major(I genuinely love biology) and have some sort of minor (possibly classics) while following a pre-med track
-I’ll end up with around $120,000 of debt no matter where I go because my EFC is way higher than my actual FC (please don’t try to suggest state schools!)
-I love languages! Nearly fluent in French, okayish at Spanish, and am working on German
-Avid ceramic artist and nature/wildlife photographer
-Gluten Free and Pescetarian (since birth)

Reed

Pros
I really loved the campus (only one I got to visit), the weather, the two classes I visited were great, there’s a nearby Trader Joe’s, my friends would be quirky professor types, very queer, I wouldn’t have to worry as much about GPA (a huge source of anxiety during HS) and I vibed with the vibe (most important thing about Reed).

Cons

Lots of drugs (and weird drugs) and as someone who’s pretty susceptible to peer pressure/family history of addiction, that’s not great (my host did say she never felt pressured to use though). Reed has a certain attached reputation (smart but druggie) that I’m not thrilled about. Not a great rep for med schools (despite what they try to convey). I would be unlikely to study abroad due to the Junior qualifying exam and Senior thesis. I think I might leave Reed with extremely liberal (think buzzfeed) views.

Carleton

Pros: really great school, has a “name” in Minnesota. Fits well with my personality and the vibe is very much in between Midd and Reed. Quirky but not too quirky. About 3,000 cheaper than the other two.

Cons: is within driving distance of my family.
For reasons unspecified, this is a bad/unfeasible idea.

Middlebury

Pros

Language- as a language lover, Midd is THE place to be (at least for LACs). Campus is supposedly gorgeous w/ a lot of study spots. As a lover of French, the proximity to Montreal is a plus. My brother is a senior at a college near Boston so I could possibly visit him during breaks/if he decides to live there. Middlebury seems to do a really great job of preparing students for med school. Great science facilities. I know most schools have kind people but MiddKids have a super nice vibe.

Cons

No one around me has heard of it (a minor annoyance). I’ve never really been a part of the prep school crowd/ people who wear vineyard vines and I’m a bit worried about that. All three schools are very “white” but Midd specifically has very few domestic students of color. There also is a hookup culture which isn’t really my scene and not a lot of gay girls (but wow are the guys fine). I’m not a huge fan of snow and cold even though I am quite used to it.
I can’t drive and won’t be likely to get a car anytime soon, so I’ll be stuck around campus. I’m kinda worried about getting bored and not feeling like I can escape.

I’m pretty set on Midd, but I wanted to get some last minute opinions. Reed was the only one I was able to visit (thanks Covid!). I know when I was applying I read every single “Reed vs” thread so even if the info isn’t relevant to me it might help someone in the future. I’m just trying to collect some more info before my final choice!