Is money the main factor in deciding on college?

Applying to College
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I feel you. My husband and I, are naturalized citizens. We received our degree outside of the US but had been assessed with the same equivalency of a four year bachelors degree here. Coming from the Fareast, education is strongly emphasized to us at a very young age so its not surprising that we want the same for our kids. I was on the same dilemma as you when two of my kids are preparing for college (they’re 20 and 19 years old now). We know nothing about the college process, how the financial aid, CSS, grants and scholarships work. Money is one of the two main factors, with type of school as the other deciding factors for both our kids.We do not have any educational funds saved for them. All throughout their HS years, we told our kids to do the best they can so that they can get into good schools with good scholarships. Both did really good in secondary school especially my daughter who’s our middle child (graduated with highest honors). We also do not want our kids to take out any loans as much as possible.

But we had a reality check when the time came for both kids to make a decision to attend private colleges vs public university. Here’s what we have done and what currently is our situation.

Eldest son (20) attended our local community college the first two years. He wanted to attend RIT from the get go but we weren’t sure we can afford to send him there. We sat down with him and explained that he should start with a cc first and then apply to transfer to RIT after two years. Honestly we were not sure if our son was really ready to be away (he’s still unsure what to do). He finished his associates degree last year and transferred to RIT this current school year. He was offered a decent scholarship but we asked for additional money and was given an additional grant money of $7K. We took a subsidized fed loan. The rest - room, meal, books and others- we are paying out of pocket.

Our daughter applied to 9 schools only in NY state both private and public schools. She got in to 7 schools(Clarkson, Colgate, RIT, RPI, Stonybrook, Binghamton, and local cc), 1 wait listed (NYU) and one denied (Columbia). She received great scholarships, plus grants. What helped us make the decision for her where to go, was putting all the FAs from these schools on a spreadsheets and compare everything including how much our out of pocket expenses is going to be. Our oop ranges from 12K to 18K. The most expensive school to attend is Colgate U. but also gave the best FA and cheapest oop! Daughter ended up going to Colgate which was one of her top 3 choice of schools. Although she took a $2500 subsidized loan the first year, that was the only loan she has currently as Colgate removed all the fed loans beginning last year and increased all grant money to families earning less than $125K.

Here’s the thing, we are happy (both my husband and 2 kids) where they both landed as they are both thriving in school despite the pandemic. One of the reasons we also choose where they are now is the ROI and the schools’ active alumni networking.

Sorry this is a long response but I thought I would give you a glimpse of how we are handling sending two kids in private schools. Mind you we are not high earners. We are your average earning household. My advice is to put all FAs in a spreadsheet. You will have a better idea of how much you can afford. Taking out a loan is up to you and your son. Like I said, in my family, we do not want to get loans for the kids but with the two of them in private schools, it just lessens the load for us right now (we also agreed to just taking fed loans ) plus we also want our kids to understand the value and importance of their education. Its not cheap but we are willing to help them to give them a better future.

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22

Lafayette meets full need, so the loan amount shouldn’t be that bad.
Still I’d take the Muhlenberg deal.

23

Really, who’s to say that any of the elites will be better than the free ride? Evidence is pretty clear that the success cake is baked in HS. High achieving students do well anywhere. Not one, but two professors at an extremely elite tech school told my son that he would not be well served going there. The rankings have us hoodwinked into thinking that the most popular schools (that’s what the most selective means essentially) are the best. It’s done a disservice to the whole process.

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24

Given your list of schools I’m probably a bit biased—my oldest is at Muhlenberg right now and is thriving there, so I have a positive view of the place.

That said, if she hadn’t gotten a good scholarship to make it affordable, no way we would have sent her there. And in fact, my general position (though an often unpopular one on CC) is that, some rare weird situations aside, you shouldn’t pay extra for an “elite” (however you care to define it) college, no matter the comparative prestigiosity levels involved.

So yeah, as others have advised, take the money and run. And if you have any questions specifically about Muhlenberg, feel free to PM me. I’m not an expert on all aspects of the school by any means, but I can speak to my daughter’s experience there (and by extension our family’s experience).

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25

Evidence also shows that FGLI students benefit greatly from attending elite schools. However, those students are also likely to get great financial aid at said elite schools.

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I wish this were true. I could write a book about the high achieving kids who crash and burn in college.

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27

High achieving students crash and burn every year. It’s just on average, there is no correlation to where they do so. The ones who auger in are unfortunately just as likely to do it at Harvard as they are at the local state flagship. The important point is that they are the minority. High achieving students generally succeed regardless of where they go to school. This has been borne out over and over in study after study.

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However, those with divorced parents are much less likely to get great financial aid at most of those elite schools. Plus, FGLI students are much less likely to apply to and be admitted to those elite schools.

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Yup, great points. I would say the elite schools are not doing nearly enough, but that’s outside the scope of this convo.

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@Mother007 Has your son made a decision yet?

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There’s nothing special about high achieving kids crashing and burning in college. All kids, whether they go to college or not, have to decide on their course of action. Many “make it” or “make it after some shakiness.” Others don’t and it’s always sad. A few of those can change their lives around later pending circumstances. Testimonials abound for them, but not as much for those who don’t make it.

It’s more or less a right of passage I suppose. I haven’t found any way to guarantee kids make the right choices once they are truly out on their own. For those who live at home, the passage is just kicked down the block a bit, but it comes.

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32

There have been many vague references to “evidence” and “studies” in this thread, but no actual links to the “evidence” or names of the studies. Is the “evidence” about FGLI students benefiting greatly elite college a reference to the Dale & Krueger study (if so, I’d choose a very different wording), or something else?

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33

Yes, for the USA, the Dale & Krueger study. What different wording would you use?

For the UK: SocArXiv Papers | Who benefits from attending elite universities? Family background and graduates’ career trajectories (osf.io)

34

Money isn’t always the main factor, but maybe it should be.

"College debt also has a big impact, on the negative side. Only 2 percent of those with $20,000 to $40,000 in undergraduate loans reported they were “thriving.” That’s pretty troubling, since $29,400 is the national average for the 7 in 10 students who borrow. "

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35

“Evidence is pretty clear that the success cake is baked in HS.”

For some maybe but there are plenty of kids that are late bloomers and become very successful, creative, etc.

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36

There are a lot of parents here who had high achieving kids who did NOT succeed in college. It would be nice if the rest of us would modulate our language a bit- for some kids where they end up DOES matter, for some kids certain environments foster success and others are a poor fit. And many kids who end up “successful” did not have that “success cake” baked in HS. It’s nice not to be so sweeping in one’s point of view…

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37

As a high-achieving HS kid myself who then went on to do badly in college (flunked out, in fact!), yeah, whatever, I totally recognize that when someone makes a statement that “high-achieving kids do X” they’re talking about averages, not specifics—I honestly don’t see the problem in offering evidence-based (or even observation-based) generalizations as generalizations without tons of hedging.

(I did quite well educationally later on, but it took extra time, money, and stress. Same as for most kids who end up going down the same path as I did, in fact.)

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Thank you. I guess as a former researcher and now clinical provider, I make assumptions that others would not immediately see. There are no absolute certainties. There are only probabilities. There are always anecdotal exceptions to the rule. I’m in no way saying that all high achievers in high school are all successful. I am saying that the majority are and that success is independent of where they go to school, speaking of the aggregate, not of individuals.

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39

Some of the groups that the Dale & Krueger study reviewed included a large sample of students from a 1989 cohort of multiple races, and just the Black + Hispanic students from that same cohort. It found that selective of college as measured by average SAT score of college attended or Barron’s index had negligible impact on 2007 earnings among the full sample, after the controls which included both student characteristics and selectivity of colleges to which the students applied. However, they found selectivity of school attended was far more positively correlated with income among the Black + Hispanic subgroup. This effect was particularly noteworthy among URMs who did not attend HBCUs. The difference was even more stark for college tuition. Higher tuition was associated with much higher income for URMs after controls (as high as more selective college), but was associated with lower income for ORMs after controls.

For the ORM students, income was higher among students attending highly selective colleges without controls, but with the self revelation controls (controls for selectivity of schools to which the student applies), that increased income dropped to ~0. However, for URM students, there was essentially no difference between basic controls and self revelation controls. In short, for ORMs increased income was associated with applying to selective colleges, rather than attending, which might signal certain personality or family background characteristics. And for URMs, the income benefit seemed to requiring attending selective colleges. Applying to selective colleges without attending. had little impact for URMs.

The authors also mentioned that a statistically significant positive income effect occurred for the subgroup of students whose parents did not attend college. This income benefit only occurred for the 1989 cohort – not the 1976 cohort. The 1989 cohort income benefit for first gens appeared to be much smaller than the income benefit for URMs. The author’s speculate that the URMs and less educated family subgroups may benefit from the network connections. This also fits with URM income seeming to be as correlated with high tuition as selectivity. There may be benefits from networking with wealthy high SES kids and/or being exposed to the way they look for jobs with internships and such, even if not at the most selective college to which the student is accepted.

"One possible explanation for this pattern is that while most students who apply to selective colleges may be able to rely on their families and friends to provide job-networking opportunities, networking opportunities that become available from attending a selective college may be particularly valuable for black and Hispanic students, and for students from less educated families. "

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40

I believe it. Debt sounds like no big deal when you’re 17-19. But boy does it stink when you are out of school with limited free time and lack of resources to do the things you want to do in your limited free time or enjoy the lifestyle you’ve always dreamed of. Even if doing well financially, there is often resentment in paying a loan for 10 or more years when you’re not getting any present benefit (ie, the benefit was in the past).

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