OP, my daughter is the same age as yours and feeling the same way. We took her to a counselor who works with adolescents. Thank goodness we did! It turns out our daughter has been even more stressed out than we realized. So it might be helpful for your daughter to see someone NOW, so she can learn some coping skills before she heads off to college. And don’t put any more pressure on your daughter - believe me, she is putting enough on herself.
Our son has had more than one D (biology and English twice). He is the prototypical bright slacker, with very high test scores. In his case, he just didn’t do the work. He’s almost certainly taken himself out of the running for NMF a, and has limited his options. He does seem to be willing to make the most of what’s available and consider places that give bug money to NMSF?
The bright slacker may do well in the long run. Some late bloomers catch fire in college and excel in work later.
I worry about those who work too hard and endure too much stress in high school and then burn out early.
I think your D may need to consider another career. She will need to do very well on tests in college to have a med school worth GPA in the BCMP classes and a med school worthy cum GPA.
Then there’s the MCAT…very stressful, very long exam…need to do very well.
Then there are the STEP exams…very stressful, VERY long exams…need to do well on those.
I know that a lot of “smart” kids want to become doctors, but kids who have stress issues, and testing issues, should be seeking careers other than physician.
Is this AP physics 1 or Physics C? The new AP physics 1 is meant to be a first physics class. Difficulty with the material cannot be blamed on not having had a prior physics class.
I think you need to figure out if this is a testing issue or an understanding the material issue. In retrospect, I would have intervened somehow to improve the grades–meeting with the teacher for extra help, hiring a tutor, joining a study group with peers, whatever can be done–as well as trying to address the excessive test anxiety.
College premed classes are going to be more difficult and more competitive than a typical high school AP class, and medicine is a very stressful career. Unless he can turn all this around big time, I have to agree with mom2collegekids–I would look for another career path.
Last note, I think it’s a bit of a cop-out to say that teachers only like students who do well, or, as I’ve seen suggested on some other threads, teachers hand out good grades to girls, not boys. In my experience, teachers like students who behave well, care, and are sincerely trying, regardless of the success they achieve.
"Also, please eliminate the word “doom” when speaking about your child. "
Amen. You are giving the impression, whether you mean to or not, that all you care about is the grades so she can get into the best college. This is your daughter. She is a person. Her happiness is far more important than impressing a college adcom down the road.
@mom2collegekids, your comment made me wonder – are extended time accommodations available for individuals who take the MCAT?
I think there is no extended time accommodation for MCAT (but I am not 100% sure about this though.) Neither for STEP-1.
Because there are generally twice as many required chemistry courses as other science subjects, it is crucial to do it reasonably well on the chemistry subject. If a student is not good at chemistry, there could be a bigger “hit” on the BCPM (i.e., science) GPAs in the end. It seems it is relatively “easier” to get through the biology series at SOME colleges. This is likely because all biology courses except two are electives, while four chemistry courses are required ones, so there is little room to avoid the difficult course if the professor happens to be one who grades harshly.
There are just too many exams on this career path. Some may think there are too many labs and too much time-consuming lab report work in college as well.
Grrrrr. I hate stories like this!
AP Chemistry and AP Physics in the same year? Without Honors Physics?! Great! I wish to see the counselor who came up with this curriculum. Grrrr.
This load is not possible. Yes, I know students that are making it. In reality, they take extra-curriculum Physics and Chemistry, BEFORE they start AP classes. Especially Physics. At least a year of Physics instructions before AP class (better 2-3 years). Alternatively, students rely on tutors, online classes, prep classes that happen before the school year. In my D’s class, all students that take AP Physics (!all!) were studying some Physics for at least a year before: with tutors (parents), online, or prep classes. AP Physics is the most rigorous AP class, IMHO.
My H has Ph.D. in Physics. He was shocked when he saw AP Physics textbook. The material is for 2 (better 3) years of slow and steady studies. If you want to fit all Physics into one year, without any prep … your student should be a true genius to pull this load.
I signed my D for online H Chemistry in 7th grade. I was told that it is way too early. True, she failed the class, miserably. Signed her again for the 8th grade. She got B-. Now, in HS she gets A+ in H Chemistry, helps her classmates, and feels very proud of herself. IMHO, it takes 3-4 years to master Physics and Chemistry at AP level, 2-3 years for AP Biology.
At DS’s high schools, above average, college-bound students are expected to take 5 AP classes in junior, and another 5 AP classes in senior. you can say that it is the QUANTITY, not the quality that counts. (If I remember it correctly, DS took AP chemistry and AP physics simultaneously. It is hard to avoid doubling up science courses otherwise the high school counselors may add a comment “this student does not take the most demanding course load” in the student’s college application.)
DS’s AP chemistry teacher happened to be quite good (good = setting a higher standard, at least.)
Yikes, sucks that this happened junior year. You are not responsible for this. It was your child’s decision. When your child goes off to college, you won’t be there to hold her hand. She has to learn on her own.
A lot of the curriculum depends on the particular high school. But moving into AP physics before you have any concept of what it is and what it does, is a risk. So many kids get early physics in 9th, then later move into AP. Or, some hs have a split year with both chem and physics, a sort of semester of Part One of each, then with either Part Two or AP in 11th or 12th.
You do see kids who take AP chem and physics same year and do well. Yes, maybe they are getting support. But often these are the same kids who are, eg, already ahead in math and show maturity in their course work, so far.
Another issue about pre-med is that, despite that you can get into med school with a non-STEM major, to get into some top colleges as a pre-med, you need a good math or science LoR.
At my D’s high school the prerequisite for AP Physics is a B or higher in Honors Physics, or an A in regular Physics. This couldn’t have happened. I can’t see why this high school allowed it.
We still have not heard whether it was AP Physics C or AP Physics 1. Since Physics C requires calculus and usually requires prior physics and the OP didn’t mention any math AP classes or prior physics, I was assuming non-calculus based physics such as Physics 1, or perhaps a version of the old Physics B class. Jumping into Physics C with no prior high school physics or without calculus would be inadvisable for most students. But the new Physics 1 and 2 sequence is meant to be taken without prior physics. Many students would take honors physics prior to Physics B, but I’ve learned on this site that at some schools, kids are expected to jump straight into physics B, and my daughter actually wished our school had allowed her to do that.
As far as the chemistry goes, the OP stated that her son did take honors chemistry prior to AP and did reasonably well.
Unless it was Physics C, I don’t see any excessive pushing or poor guidance going on here. To me it looks like the usual and logical progression of high school coursework for an honors student expecting to pursue a competitive advanced degree in STEM.
But the issue isn’t only the sequence; the kid had a chem C+ at mid-year and presumably some sense before that that this was an issue. And presumably some similar results before the C in physics.
One of mine identified early that her AP calc was well over her head and dropped back. Didn’t affect admissions.
@mcat2, yes, you are right. Kids take double AP.
My point is that most kids that take AP Physics had studied physics before. Probably, for several years already. In some after-school programs, online, with tutors, or prep classes.
I suggest my D to study physics and chemistry at least 2 years before school, “at home”. Then she is sufficiently prepared to take double AP Chemistry/ AP Physics in one year.
Lots of kids double up on APs, many take 4 at once including two sciences. No physics before AP physics??? That doesn’t make much sense. But what makes less sense if in fact this person wants to be a physician and is having this kind of trouble in high school science and math classes. While it is not doom, pursing that college path probably is. While yes, kids grow and change, generally speaking, if you can’t make A’s in HS math and science classes you are unlikely to make them in college classes. And last I checked, to be a physician, making grades and being able to take test and handle pressure is important. At least that is what I want in a future doctor. Just saw reference to other thread, is student actually interested in this or is this in case of parent wanting child to be doctor.
Reminds me of cartoon of parent leaning into doorway of 12 year old’s room while kid sits at computer. Parent says, “You doctor yet?”
When I made the schedule for my kids, I made sure they didn’t double up on science. Even one kid took AP Physics without Honors Physics, I don’t think it was a problem if the teacher was a good teacher, he wasn’t. Even though kid #2 got A in AP Physics, I don’t think she learned it right because if she did, it could be an exciting subject to her, something she wouldn’t mind taking more in college.
I think the physics tracks are school-specific. There is no physics before AP Physics B at my D’s school. So all the students are in the same boat, more or less.
I agree with others about the bigger issue–as a physician, tests are a continual part of life. Even after STEP exams, there are boards every 5-10 years. And constant small tests from hospital and specialty groups etc. Most physicians I know at least somewhat enjoy testing. The student will have plenty of time to decide if medicine is for them. You CAN recover from bad grades and be a doctor. I got a D+ in Calc 3 in college. But I had to justify that grade through other coursework repeatedly.