<p>My D has at present (will be retaking SAT and ACT in June 2008):
2170 SAT (670 writing)
215 PSAT (75 writing, will be a Natl Merit Finalist in our state)
30 ACT (32 reading, 32 English)
3.6 GPA and taking the hardest courses at her 'top 25 elite public high schools in US' school (according to USWNR rankings)</p>
<p>She worries that she's not a good enough writer, but wants to try to be a writer anyhow.</p>
<p>Has few ECs--band, one yr as student ambassador. Spent lots of time on Unleash Your Imagination - FanFiction.Net writing new story endings, as well as critiquing others' story endings--she will have to use this as volunteer activity!!</p>
<p>Does this girl have any chance? Judging by what I have been reading around this site, admission chances look pretty dismal. She's entering her senior year this fall. Would it help if she worked on the high school newspaper this coming year? For just one year?</p>
<p>Well I can tell you I had pretty much the same SAT score (2180) and what amounts to a 3.9 UW GPA at a competitive suburban public, and at least equal ECs and I got waitlisted, and that was in 2006. I eventually got in as a transfer, but we are talking about freshman admissions I wouldnt give her a great shot. Probably slightly below average, which I guess would be around 20% these days.</p>
<p>Well, I'm only coming at you as a soon to be applicant (for the 2009-2010 school year), so I'm no expert, but I'm pretty obsessed with ND, I know tons of people who go/got in, my school is very into ND etc. </p>
<p>The simple answer is Yes, Notre Dame really is that hard to get into. I honestly feel like ND causes the most tenseness/emotional breakdowns/intense discussions of any school among seniors. Your daughter's numbers aren't SO amazing, but they're not out of range. ACT is pretty low, but SAT is about average for ND. I have a 34 and I'm in top 10% and my counselor basically says I "will probably have a decent shot." It's ridiculous. But the truth is, there are like 16000+ applicants for less than three thousand spots. Even assuming half of the applicants are under qualified (which is probably pretty accurate--half the applicants from my school shouldn't have bothered), there are still several thousand really impressive students that get turned away.</p>
<p>I'd say your daughter should remain optimistic. She has just as good a chance as most people applying.</p>
<p>a hook is a something the differentiates your D from the others. Basically a reason why she ND is her number one, and why she wants to attend. The possibilities of attending are infinite, but I hope her the best of luck in writing a great essay</p>
<p>aurorodad--I would ask why your daughter, an aspiring writer, would even want to go to ND. I can think of about 10 places that would be a better fit and would probably value her fanfic and other activities more. </p>
<p>ND for all of its virtues is not a great place for unconventional students. My D. picked it over Carleton and a year later still has her moments. She's happy but it has been a lot of work, and she's very focused on politics and economics--not on arts or writing. </p>
<p>If your D. wants a big school and football, one of the Iowa schools has an amazing writing program. If she wants to focus on writing and is willing to be in the midwest, why not Kenyon or another LAC?</p>
<p>Well with her grades, I think she has a great shot at many quality LAC's... Make sure she applies to a safety and other schools on par with Notre Dame. Just to be safe and not put everything into getting accepted by Notre Dame.</p>
<p>CCG-have to agree! Keep the apps balanced with a mix of safety, match, and reaches. And, try to visit the schools, if possible. Has your daughter visited ND? Make sure that the safety/ies can be somewhere that she will want to attend. Try not to focus on ND as being the only school she really wants to attend--too many do this and I suspect that this leads to great disappointments that many of us have witnessed when they are not admitted. Notre Dame is a fabulous school--however, as Mombot pointed out, there are many great schools out there. Good Luck!</p>
<p>Yes, it's damn hard to get into, haha. I had lower SAT scores but more ECs and I got in early action...by comparison, one of my distant relatives applied with a 3.9-something GPA from a prestigious prep school and got rejected EA. So admissions are always a crapshoot. But if she writes a good essay she has a good chance for either EA or regular.</p>
<p>well that depends if you are
A. legacy
B. minority
C. Athlete</p>
<p>or D. None of the above.</p>
<p>If you are a combination of any of the first three... ND is not that hard to get into, respectively</p>
<p>With one of the top 3 categories, ND is still very hard to get into.</p>
<p>However, if you fall in the D range, it is extremely competitive. Without a separate hook, such as geographic or knowing people in the process, you need to be as close to 1500 as you can and be in the top 2.5is% of your class. </p>
<p>So, the answer to your question is YES. Especially for your child, because I see no apparent hook. For a bit of perspective... your d and I have the exact same SAT...I have a lil higher ACT... and a higher GPA from a solid HS and I was rejected RD. Were there people accepted with these stats? YES.. Were there people rejected with these stats? MANY </p>
<p>To get some more perspective, check out the Official Decisions thread from the last few years.</p>
<p>Id have her retake the ACT and see if she can do better, but she looks like a terrific applicant and I am sure ND is aware of her HS's reputation.</p>
<p>I feel a little bad after reading some of these responses. I think some people overestimate how hard it is. (not by much though)</p>
<p>It IS difficult, but you DON'T have to be in the top 2.5 percent of your class to get in. Tim_ND is pretty accurate in saying you have to be close to a 1500/33.</p>
<p>Just to give you an idea from my school (a private, Catholic, school with VERY competitive honors students)</p>
<p>My AP bio lab partner (it was a senior science class), got in with about a 97 average (which is not even top 10% of her class) but a 34 ACT.</p>
<p>A legacy got in with a 31 ACT and a 98 average (JUST barely top 10%)</p>
<p>Another non-legacy got rejected with the exact same ACT and average..</p>
<p>Everyone in the top 10% of the class with a 32 or above who applied got in.</p>
<p>So it's not totally impossible, but pretty difficult.</p>
<p>D1 applied for the Class of 2011 with the following:</p>
<p>1470 SAT (Superscored 760 M 710 CR) - at EA stage had a 1420 SAT
32 ACT
GPA 3.8 out of 4.0 (4.2 weighted)
Class Rank estimated at top 10%
Rigorous course load (5 AP classes this semester)
Private Catholic Prep School
Editor-In-Chief of School Newspaper
National Merit Commended Scholar
National Honor Society
Reasonable ECs with leadership
Very active in church and Catholicism
Have not read essay but she can write
Likely outstanding recommendation from high school campus minister</p>
<p>She was deferred in EA, Waitlisted in RD and never admitted. Yes, ND can be very hard to get into if you do not have a hook. But, she is doing fine at her back-up school. (By the way, ND doesn't seem to put any emphasis on National Merit Semifinalist - no scholarships, and no real admissions advantages - ND's stated emphasis is more on grades and course rigor than on test scores.)</p>
<p>I also think that essays play an important part as well esp if they show passion/interest about something. No, National Merit Finalist really does not carry much weight, other than being another honor on the list (and of course, as hktk states there are no merit awards for it). I also think that if your SAT/ACT score is high enough, it is def better to apply EA.</p>
<p>No, ND isn't that bad. 1/4 of people who apply get in. Think of how many Midwest stooges apply; it's not a very self-selecting pool.
Don't let the above anecdotes fool you. I'm sure some people with 2170 SAT scores and 3.6 GPAs at hypercompetitive schools don't get into ND, but the chances are that your daughter will not be among them.</p>
<p>I had a 3.94/4.0 unweighted GPA, 31 ACT, ranked in the top-1.5% of my class, with leadership/athletic stuff up the wazoo, and I was waitlisted. </p>
<p>Tim pretty much nailed it I think. Ironically, the two kids admitted to ND from my high school were a scholarship athlete and URM. The two not admitted (myself waitlisted and another denied) are going to UCLA and UC Berkeley, respectively. </p>
<p>So is ND hard to get into? Perhaps. Depends on who you are.</p>
<p>Given that ND places more emphasis on grades and course rigor than on test scores, I disagree with TellETube's analysis. The 3.6 GPA is likely a problem, especially if it translates to a sub-top-10% class rank.</p>
<p>No, ND is not as selective as Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, Williams, Amherst, etc., but it is still not easy to get into, especially if you do not have a hook. ND has far more qualified applicants than it has room for students, so a lot of qualified students get turned down. Unfortunately, aurorad12345, ND is not a slam-dunk for your daughter. She might get in, but she better have a back-up plan.</p>
<p>I would agree that grades and course rigor and test scores are key. My son had gpa and test scores well within the average+ for admission to class of 2011, but did not take the most rigorous courses offered by his competitive suburban high school. He had fantastic ECs but, I suspect, an essay topic that did not appeal to ND admissions. Both my husband and I are ND alums, as well as my father-in-law and my husband's uncle. Even with the legacy status, my son was waitlisted and chose another (his dream) school instead of staying on the waitlist.</p>
<p>Notre Dame is hard to get into. But worth trying.</p>
<p>Visit the place. It has a rather unique spirit about it. But, as with all colleges and students, fit is what is most important, and ND is not for all students. D1 really wanted to go there, but D2 had no interest.</p>