<p>^^^ yes it is</p>
<p>my brother goes to college in philly....within a week or so of the semester there was a stabbing on his campus...</p>
<p>FWIW, I've lived in Philly for eighteen years and haven't been stabbed or shot at once...</p>
<p>2 funny, vivera...thx for the chuckle.</p>
<p>I live near Boston and it is pretty great, though I'd much prefer living across the Charles River in Cambridge, though haven't actually resided there since I was two. Boston has its fair share of crime, nasty [and interesting] politics, and it too is entrenched in history. </p>
<p>I also think Philly is great, the climate is warmer than Boston and thus it has milder winters than I'm used to in MA. Looking forward to being a resident in August. [I also chose Penn over Boston area accepted schools, too] I guess having never lived in the South, it's hard to say what living in a southern city would be like. I think people from the Northeast tend to like the four seasons and life in general. Plus the people near Boston are 'wickid smaaaht'. </p>
<p>ps: Been watching episodes of Cold Case just to see scenes of Philly. Saw Penn in the distance the other night.</p>
<p>although philly is south of boston, i'd hardly call it a "southern city." It still has its four seasons.</p>
<p>Of course, I wasn't implying Philly was a southern city at all! It's just that winter comes little later, is milder, and spring certainly is welcomed in much sooner by a couple of weeks. In regards to the southern cities, I was referring to comments sometimes made that the cities in the northeast are less than desirable, as compared to some of the beautiful ones down south. [threads comparing different college cities] I think being from the northeast we tend to tolerate the climate, more than folks who are only used to needing only a sweatshirt/sweater a few days a year. Of course that varies pretty wildly too, whether you're from Caribou or Providence.</p>
<p>ps: A bit off topic here, but for those who are curious, here's a link to snowfall in major US cities: </p>
<p>Snowfall</a> at Major Cities</p>
<p>Philly has 22" to Boston's 44" [and more local to where I live it's 61"], so Philly seems simply balmy to me :]</p>
<p>yeah we rarely get snow =(</p>
<p>and when we do, penn facilities is super fast at clearing walkways - thus, practically no chance of a snow day ever</p>
<p>^ Poor baby. :p</p>
<p>This is a pretty good thread for giving an accurate sense of the range of views about Philadelphia and Penn.</p>
<p>A couple extra points (from a parent):</p>
<ul>
<li><p>MoWC and I disagree often about Philadelphia. I'll give her the right to her opinion, but there's one factual point I would dispute: Philadelphia is not "expensive" by comparison to any city of similar size or opportunity. Compared to Boston, New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Washington, San Francisco, it would be better characterized as "cheap" (except for taxi fares, which are a lot more expensive than in NYC or Washington). Things like off-campus housing, concerts/club shows, plays, and high-quality food at every market level are significantly less expensive here than in almost any other large city. My kids go to college in Chicago, which they love, but they are always taken aback by how much more they have to spend when they go out there compared to here.</p></li>
<li><p>Philadelphia's public transit system is not the world's greatest, but for someone at Penn it can work really, really well. Penn is served by the subway lines, five different trolley lines, numerous bus lines, and the commuter rail system. It is also an easy walk or bus/trolley ride from the AMTRAK 30th Street station. And it costs $10 to get to NYC on the Chinatown busses.</p></li>
<li><p>Food and music are especially good deals for students here. Apart from stuff like the Philadelphia Orchestra and every major concert tour in America, there are a zillion things connected with the Curtis Institute and other music schools (for classical), jazz, indie rock, hip-hop, neosoul, blues, folk, world music. And, unlike most other cities, only about 20% of shows OUTSIDE the major venues are 21+. Philly has what is probably the best all-ages promoter in the country for indie rock (R5 Productions). If you like that stuff, it's a real plus to being here.</p></li>
<li><p>There's been a huge boost in the local arts scene here (visual art, drama, music, etc.) over the past decade, basically because it's not much more difficult to get into NYC from here than it is from Jersey City or Hoboken, and the housing stock/neighborhoods/local opportunities here are better. Not that it holds a candle to Manhattan or Brooklyn, but I'm not sure Boston is better anymore.</p></li>
<li><p>Compared to the South, Philadelphia is cold and miserable. Compared to Boston, Philadelphia is the South. When we lived in West Philadelphia, we often had forsythia blooming at the end of February. It's at least two full growing zones south of most of New England.</p></li>
<li><p>Did I mention gardens? That's not something that college kids tend to be into, but Philadelphia is the landscape architecture capital of the country (and Penn, specifically -- it's one of Penn's hidden-gem programs).</p></li>
</ul>
<p>^^ I actually agree with everything you said. I compare Philadelphia to Dallas and Nashville, though, and find it very expensive. The public transportation has worked really well for my son- he has a job in center city and uses it all the time. The biggest expense is housing. It is simply a lot higher than many other university environments. It is something to consider. I'm sure it is less than Chicago and NYC, but it is a LOT more than you would have to pay at other selective universities. My son's dumps were outrageously priced in Philadelphia. My daughter and her (almost) new husband are renting a HOUSE close to Vanderbilt for just a little bit more than my son will be paying for a student apartment near Penn. I am not trying to say it should be comparable, but it is something we failed to consider when he made his college choice.</p>
<p>Philly is pretty much a second-class city. My mom went to Penn and loved her time there, but she even says that Philadelphia can't compare to a place like Boston. I would also say it is not quite as good as NYC and perhaps Chicago(but the cold will kill you here). In the end of the day--that won't make or break how much you like Penn I assume.</p>
<p>^ In no way is Philly a "second-class" city or inferior to cities like Boston in terms of cultural, historical, dining, entertainment, nightlife, and other attractions and amenities, and anyone who says so does not know or understand what Philly has to offer. For example:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Philly has larger and better art museums and collections than Boston (Philly has the 3rd largest public art museum in the country after NYC and DC, the largest private collection of impressionist and post-impressionist paintings in the world, more impressionist paintings than any other city in the world except Paris, the largest collection of Rodin sculptures outside of Paris, more outdoor art than any other city in the country, etc.).</p></li>
<li><p>Philly's symphony orchestra is equal to Boston's in eminence (both are among the "Big 5" orchestras in the US), and Philly has one of the most eminent music conservatories in the world (Curtis), which has free recitals open to the public 3 nights a week.</p></li>
<li><p>Philly has two dozen professional theaters, and numerous resident theater companies.</p></li>
<li><p>Philly has many more historic sites and neighborhoods than Boston, including many charming and scenic streets dating to the 18th and early 19th centuries (Philly was the second-largest English-speaking city in the world in the 18th century).</p></li>
<li><p>Philly has the largest urban park system (about 9,000 acres) in the world, with secluded streams, bubbling brooks, hiking and horse trails, etc. all within the city limits.</p></li>
<li><p>Philly has more arboretums and public gardens than any other city in the country, and has the largest indoor flower show in the world.</p></li>
<li><p>Philly has a restaurant and food scene that's equal to or better than Boston's (e.g., more than 200 sidewalk cafes in Center City Philly alone, the enormous and historic Reading Terminal Market, the famous Italian Market in South Philly, etc.).</p></li>
<li><p>Philly has the third largest downtown residential population in the US, with thousands of luxury condos recently built, under construction, or being planned.</p></li>
<li><p>Philly has some of the most beautiful exurban areas in the country (according to the AAA guide), including artist Andrew Wyeth's village of Chadds Ford, historic Valley Forge, and charming New Hope and surrounding Bucks County.</p></li>
<li><p>Philly has a terrific location, 1 1/2 hours from DC and 1 1/4 hours from NYC by train, and an hour from the Atlantic Ocean, Pocono Mountains, etc.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I could go on, but I think I've made my point. "Second-class" city? Hardly! And with all due respect to your mom, it sounds like she didn't really get to know what Philly has to offer when she was at Penn. That's OK--neither did I. :) But since my time at Penn, I've come to learn and appreciate what an amazing and unique cultural mecca Philly really is.</p>
<p>Do you ever just look at Philly--its not very pretty, it has a high rate of crime, and look at for the most part the people who live there (hint different crowd than Boston). Boston has so many colleges and so much to do at night, I am not saying that Philly doesn't, but you can't really compare the two. If you were to take a nationwide poll of people who have been to both cities, Boston, NYC and maybe Chicago> over Philly every time. It is a city and has allot to offer, but from visiting Philly and spending allot of time in NYC and some in Boston, I just don't think you can make an equal comparison.</p>
<p>Edit: All of your observations are very well founded, but for most people the art museums/public gardens/construction will not elevate a city for someone in college. Also its location does not matter too much, since if you are in a city like Philly, why would you drive 3 hours to get to NYC? The main problem for me is that Philly just has alot of poverty (like any major city--just seems more pronounced and visible) and more crime. My friend who is at Penn was at a Frat party off campus and after stepping outside for all of 3 minutes was beaten up pretty bad by 3-4 local guys. Penn police were on the scene before Philly police and they did a really good job, but crime is still an issue.</p>
<p>Philly is great for its museums, cheesesteaks, and the like, but all of that can get pretty old quick. I personally only need to climb the Rocky steps and see the liberty bell once....besides the nice areas w/ the historical buildings and houses, Philly is not that great. The rest of the downtown area has a lot of dumpy areas, grafitti, trash everywhere....its just a dirty city with narrow streets and a lot of stuff crammed into them....I'd rather live in a city like Chicago or New York...the colleges in those cities usually don't have as bad of crime and drug problems....(the only one that might come close is U Chicago) When I was at UPenn, the actual campus was nice on the inside area...but as I made my way to the outer parts, it seemed sketchy...(saw sketchy people, my dad saw from his car what appeared to be a drug deal..) </p>
<p>If I were you i would avoid Philly except for a vacation to see the historical sights and make that crucial decision between provalone or cheese wiz on your steak..hehe</p>
<p>Bescraze, as a city, Philly's MUCH larger than Boston, and so its big-city problems (poverty, crime, etc.) are much larger (and more visible). However, Philly also has as many--or in many cases more--GOOD things about it as does Boston, but you have to know where to find them. Many of its best features are in Center City, but many others are in other parts of the city, or even outside of the city limits. Boston, on the other hand, is much smaller and more compact, and so tends to make a better first impression on casual visitors. The same is true of Chicago (not smaller, but better first impression). BUT, for people who are culturally sophisitcated and aware and really know what Philly has to offer, it does NOT take a back seat to either Boston or Chicago, and is certainly NOT a second-class city.</p>
<p>Indeed, National Geographic Traveler magazine--one of the most widely circulated travel magazines in the world--recently dubbed Philly America's "Next Great City":</p>
<p>Next</a> Great City: Philly, Really @ National Geographic Traveler</p>
<p>And CoffeeAddict9716, see my post #33 above, as well as this one. People who describe Philly the way you do generally haven't really seen or experienced the great things Philly has to offer, in terms of cultural attractions, entertainment, dining, etc, and also in terms of neighborhoods. Center City alone covers around 600 square blocks and several different neighborhoods, many of which are lovely but which the casual "Liberty Bell/run-the-Rocky-steps" tourist never sees. And then there are other scenic, interesting, and lovely neighborhoods and districts a few miles from Center City, but still within the Philly city limits, plus gorgeous and interesting towns in the suburbs. But, as I said, people who base their impressions of Philly on a quick trip and visiting just a couple of tourist sites, won't know or understand that.</p>
<p>And another thing you don't appear to know or understand is how many colleges and college students there actually are in Philly. With over 90 colleges and universities and over 300,000 college students, Philly has one of the largest student populations in the country. So to say that the colleges in NYC and Chicago don't have crime and drug problems as bad as the colleges in Philly shows a misunderstanding of the size and diversity of the college community in Philly, and a lack of knowledge of how all the colleges in that community compare to those in NYC and Chicago.</p>
<p>I spent more than just a little vacation in Philly....and did more than climb the Rocky steps...I was just listing a couple of things....but my point is that Philly is a bit rougher a few blocks away from UPenn, Drexel, etc in University City..and housing is not avaliable for 4 yrs so people have to get apartments in sketchy areas and walk back late at night...where as nyu in greenwich village is much safer...celebrities such as Uma Therman and Barbara Bush live right on the campus, plus there are so many peeople walking around that muggings dont happen in broad daylight in the busy areas...</p>
<p>I just don't prefer the schools in Philly over the schools in NY b/c of the location the are in...</p>
<p>I am one of the more harsh critics of Philadelphia (as has been noted) and I would choose it over NYC or Boston! Those two cities have all of the bad things that Philadelphia has and not enough good to make up for the mass of humanity (NY) or the weather (Boston)- not to mention the higher cost of living in both those other cities.<br>
Philadelphia actually has a strong business community and if you do stay after college and work in center city, the quality of life is quite good. I think the Penn students DO take advantage of a lot that is offered in Philadelphia- concerts, restaurants and the opportunities to get to the beach and other cities.</p>
<p>CoffeeAddict9716, you're obviously misinformed about the areas where most Penn undergrads live, and the relative safety compared to neighborhoods surrounding most other urban universities (including NYU, Columbia, etc.). The vast majority of Penn undergrads never venture into the truly high-crime areas of Philly, and very few are ever the victims of violent crime (robbery, assault, etc.).</p>
<p>I know two people at UPenn who were both mugged in broad daylight right outside of campus...one on walnut street. the other i dont know where. For one, she was walking down the street to her place and passed two GIRLS. she stepped aside to let them pass by her and continued walking. Then she felt a tug on her purse, turned her head, and 1 girl punched her in the face. Then the other tackled her to the ground and started scarring her face by rubbbing in against the ground until she gave up her purse, then they ran off....someone else saw and began chasing them so they threw the purse so he wouldnt come after them....</p>
<p>If that can happen by two innocent looking girls right near fisher bennet, that scares me what can happen further out near any apartments..security is obviously not as tight as people think. At least at NYU there's security at every building and its always full of traffic from people on the sidewalks that nobody would dare mug someone in the middle of the day.....</p>