<p>^^ People are mugged around NYU all the time! They just don't happen to be people you know.</p>
<p>yes they're mugged. but not on the busy streets in broad daylight..at night or in sketchy alleys and uncrowded streets, of course...but a mugging such as this couldn;t happen around NYU on the crowded streets of Washington Square Park w/ so many people around to stop the person..you'd be stupid to try and get away w/ it.... all cities can be dangerous at night, but some are more prone to muggings and such during the day b/c they are not crowded w/ witnesses or anything....just my 2 cents...those incidents can happen DURING THE DAY way easier in some areas near/on the penn campus or others than one such as NYU or Columbia</p>
<p>^ Sorry, but the cold, hard statistics regarding violent crimes against Penn students simply don't support your conclusion. You've cited only 2 anecdotal incidents at Penn, and you apparently don't even know exactly where (or when) they took place. All one need do is read the crime reports in the Daily Pennsylvanian every week to realize that violent crimes against Penn students are NOT a common occurrence--in fact, they're relatively rare.</p>
<p>I know 1 happened on walnut st as a said right by fisher bennet hall....and the other happened on a street surrounding campus but i forgot what it was...if you really care i could ask....but its not like these muggings were gonna be in the newspaper or that any others always are...they people got away and there was no proof...they didnt tell anyone in charge at penn that i know of...they told their familiy and fiends though....so i do know where they happened....</p>
<p>as for when:</p>
<p>the one at fisher bennet happened right before easter break and the other happened last year at the start of the school year</p>
<p>I'm not saying all of Phiilly is horrible, there are good and bad spots to all big cities. I'm saying that for college, I'd rather be in the locations of NYU, Columbia, BC, Northwestern which is near Chicago but not in a bad part like U Chicago, etc etc etc. University city itself where some colleges are can have good spots w/ restaurants and bookshops, but if mugging can happen at 3 in the afternoon right between the penn bookstore and fisher bennet hall, then there is a problem...</p>
<p>its not as bad as they say.
but ... u liking philly is gonna depends on what you are..
if u from the boston area.... grew up with red sox and pats..and tahts not gonan fly in philly...if u grew up near NY ..the giants are def. nto gonna fly with philly for are the knicks...i grew-ish up in central NJ...most ppl are into NYC...im more of a philly person. im in absolute love with the eagles...i think its one teh best cities in thw world. </p>
<p>philly is like more personal
NYC is more Hard core
no idea what boston is like cause teh Patriots suck ass =)</p>
<p>please try and excuse my HORRRIBBLLEEE grammar, spelling, etc. =]</p>
<p>CoffeeAddict9716, I can assure you based on my own personal experience and extensive knowledge of what goes on at Penn and in Philly in general, that the incident you described--assuming it actually happened--is EXTREMELY rare, and is just as likely to happen at any other urban--or even suburban--school as it is at Penn. That kind of thing just does not normally happen in that area in the middle of the day (or even at night, for that matter). Don't generalize from one solitary incident. I'm on that stretch of Walnut Street quite a bit, as are many others who post on this forum, and I'm sure they'd agree that the kind of incident you described would be VERY rare in that area.</p>
<p>45 Percenter,</p>
<p>Despite the large number of colleges you mentioned, only 18% of the population aged 25 and older have bachelor's degree in Philly. So where have those college graduates gone? Why can't Philly keep them?</p>
<p>The percentage for other cities are:</p>
<p>New York: 27%
Boston: 36%
Chicago: 26%
Atlanta: 35%
Wash D.C. 39%
Houston: 27%
Los Angeles: 26%
San Francisco: 45%
New Orleans: 26%
Baltimore 19%</p>
<p>So Bulletmore and Killadelphia are among the lowest. ;) The city that's worse? Detroit.</p>
<p>whoa...coffee-addict...maybe switch to half and half decaf.... ;) agree with 45%, sounds like it's pretty rare, and as far as broad daylight crimes, they happen in many cities! Try Brookline Avenue, Boston, broad daylight, 5pm traffic, 4 colleges and 4 hospitals, and crazy busy time of day, nurse is MUGGED with a knife, and barely escapes by slamming the door of her car onto the attacker and locking it. It happens. </p>
<p>In all cities you have to be cautious. Even in my little suburban town in MA we had a home invasion, in my house! Creepy crawlie drug seekers, busted in looking for money. The police suspected they got off near a local highway, walked through woods, and then invaded homes. Four homes were hit, and they were never caught. All were in broad daylight and two were when mothers were home with their kids. </p>
<p>Our family knows Boston pretty well, and while it's nice having the world think that Boston is the end all for college students, I didn't even apply there. Crime, poverty, gangs, all exist in some areas. And most people who work in Boston, don't live there either. It's astronomically expensive and really difficult to even find housing. And btw, off campus crimes and murders of students happen in Boston too. Not to mention alcohol related tragedies, fires, etc. The T alone picks off pedestrians at an amazing rate, too, right near BU.</p>
<p>Both Boston and Philly are great, and Philly may just have a bit more charm, too, especially the way I've heard the neighborhoods/sections have local flavor. Kids in Boston are way too naive going out at night all over, getting hammered, and finding themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time. Darwin at work, I suppose. </p>
<p>I think Philly is just grand~</p>
<p>[oh, and collegeinfo91, Pats Rule, so do the Celtics, and the Red Sox....and hey, maybe the Bruins next year...hehe....It is a blissful time to be a Boston Fan....sorry, Eagles ;]</p>
<p>I was just about to start a thread asking this question!</p>
<p>My parents, who both lived in the area around philly, keep telling me that i definitely should not go to Penn. </p>
<p>Like the OP, they said the school is in a very dirty and dangerous part of the city where being out and about at night would be a bad idea.</p>
<p>personally i grew up in a philly suburb not thinking very highly of west philadelphia</p>
<p>but when i toured i fell in love with the campus</p>
<p>and now that i've been at penn for 3 years i don't think it's that bad at all - especially compared to other philadelphia campuses (like temple's)</p>
<p>plenty of penn students are out and about on campus at night... just not that far west, but i've been routinely out to 48th street with no problems</p>
<p>Where have the college grads gone? The Main Line. Right outside Phila, with the R5 train that goes directly down the Main Line. Doctors, lawyers and Indian chiefs generally choose to live outside Phila. Although there are some outstanding magnet schools that = or surpass the suburban schools, there is no guarantee of your child's admission to them, so many choose to live in the 'burbs. When I have a bare nest- I would love to live in Center City- and get rid of one of our cars.</p>
<p>Look, each city has its own mix of this and that. Philadelphia is a much poorer, more working-class city than many others. Hence the relative cheapness, the low percentage of college grads, and the high crime rate. The overall college population is much less upscale, too. Philadelphia has Penn and Curtis, but the other big schools in the city are Temple, Drexel, LaSalle, St. Joe's, the community college, various art schools, what used to be a pharmacy school, what used to be a textile school, various smaller Catholic schools . . . That's not quite the same as Harvard, MIT, Wellesley, Tufts, Brandeis, Emerson, Berklee, BU, BC. (I know, some of those are in suburbs, but as noted Boston proper is much smaller than Philadelphia. Philly has more upscale suburban schools, too: Swarthmore, Haverford, Bryn Mawr, Villanova. But the comparison still holds.) Student life in Philadelphia just isn't going to look as spiffy as it does elsewhere.</p>
<p>But there's a difference between "look" and reality. Years ago, when my wife was thinking of going to law school at Penn, a law school friend of mine, who was a recent Penn graduate, told her that the campus was like a fortress, that people cowered in fear, that you took your life into your hands if you crossed 40th Street going west. And he was a suburban Philly kid, his father a department chair at Penn! He really had cowered in fear all the time he was there. But when we lived there for a few months, it was obvious that he had no idea what he was talking about. We lived in West Philadelphia, on the far edges of the Penn area, for 12 years, and experienced no crimes worse than a couple car break-ins and our trash cans being stolen and ransomed back to us by 12-year-olds. And those were the BAD years, the '80s, the height of the crack epidemic. Things are actually way nicer now.</p>
<p>About a year ago, I actually had a professional need to walk around University City with a private investigator, a former city cop (of course) who had retired a year before after 20 years. Before we started, he was telling me how dangerous it was, and I told him he was wrong. After a couple of hours, he said, "You know, you were completely right about this neighborhood. This is really nice, the people are nice, I had no idea it would be like this." Now, when we went 10 blocks west of there, out past 50th, THAT was the West Philly he knew. But we didn't see a whole lot of Penn students there, nor would they have any reason to go there.</p>
<p>Anyway, 10 years ago I would have told you that culturally Philadelphia was far behind Boston. I don't think that's true at all right now. Who knows about 10 years from now? Is Philadelphia the cultural equal of New York or Chicago? Don't make me laugh!</p>
<p>
With respect to New York, that's obviously true in general terms. With respect to Chicago, though, it's more debatable. It really depends on how you define "cultural," and what's important to you. In terms of art museums, outdoor art, quirky special interest museums, classical music, historical sites and neighborhoods, 18th and 19th Century architecture, parks, horticulture (arboretums, public gardens, and flower shows), etc., Philadelphia is definitely equal to--and in some areas superior to--Chicago. "Culture" is a rather nebulous term, and it's only when you fill in the specifics and account for a particular individual's tastes and interests, that you can really start to make meaningful comparisons.</p>
<p>To me, Philadelphia just doesn't seem as "mainstream" as NY. NY is bigger and flashier with, in my opinion, a more diverse set of people, and a huge transportation system to boot. Philadelphia feels old and not quite as advanced as NY.</p>
<p>Going past 40th at night is actually not that big of a deal. I've done it many times (with friends) and for the most part, the streets seem actually quite empty. I think it's just gotten a bad reputation because it's "off campus boundary" and that somehow anything off campus is inherently unsafe. I see Penn security guys on bikes riding around all the time, even in areas fairly distant from campus. I'd say as you enter the late 40's/early 50's is when it's necessary to be a little more cautious. On a few occasions, my friends and I have run into some shady people there, and in one case, a completely crazy woman holding a large baguette/two-by-four/I-have-no-idea shouting disgusting sexual things at us. </p>
<p>My point is, though, that Philly as a whole may not look very safe, but it's actually not so bad if you just use common sense. </p>
<p>My main gripes with Philadelphia have little to do with crime. It just feels like a depressing city. Things look bland and the weather isn't too comfortable. I kinda wish I had gone somewhere sunnier and cooler, where things didn't feel so run-down.</p>
<p>
<p>Despite the large number of colleges you mentioned, only 18% of the population aged 25 and older have bachelor's degree in Philly. So where have those college graduates gone? Why can't Philly keep them?
</p>
<p>That hopefully will change as more college grads learn about Philly's many advantages and amenities:</p>
<p>Philadelphia</a> named best city for new grads - U.S. business - MSNBC.com</p>
<p>Next</a> Great City: Philly, Really @ National Geographic Traveler</p>
<p>The city certainly has taken note of this problem and is committed to addressing it. See, for example:</p>
<p>Editorial:</a> College Dropouts | Philadelphia Inquirer | 05/24/2008</p>
<p>Also, keep in mind that even in this current national real estate downturn, Center City Philly continues to boom, now having the 3rd largest downtown residential population in the country (behind NYC and Chicago). Even the New York Times has heralded the recent residential growth and development of Philly's Center City:</p>
<p>Coincidentally, there's also an article in today's Philadelphia Inquirer about how the Center City condo market is continuing to thrive:</p>
<p>Center</a> City condos thriving | Philadelphia Inquirer | 06/05/2008</p>
<p>And that's an area of apporixmately 600 square blocks, including 12 distinct, interesting, and charming neighborhoods. From what you've posted in the past, Sam, it sounds like you did not get to see most of the Center City neighborhoods when you stayed there, so here's a brief description of each of them:</p>
<p>Center</a> City District / Central Philadelphia Development Corporation Of Philadelphia</p>
<p>Significantly, many of the people moving into Center City are young professionals, and almost 60% of Center City residents over 18 have at least a Bachelor's degree:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.centercityphila.org/docs/SOCC-2008-LR.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.centercityphila.org/docs/SOCC-2008-LR.pdf</a> (see page 32).</p>
<p>Oh, and you had asked about theater in Philly in one of your previous posts in another thread. Well, you're in luck, because a couple of weeks ago there was an article in the Philadelphia Inquirer about how Philadelphia's theater scene is BOOMING, with two dozen professional theaters, numerous resident theater companies, and lots of original plays being premiered:</p>
<p>From</a> Broad Street to Broadway - and back | Philadelphia Inquirer | 05/19/2008</p>
<p>And on top of that, for the past several years, Movie Maker magazine (a movie industry trade magazine) has consistently ranked Philly as one of the top 10 cities in the country for making movies. This year it's number 5:</p>
<p>[url=<a href="http://www.moviemaker.com/locations/article/top_10_movie_cities_2008_best_places_to_make_movies_20080128%5DTop">http://www.moviemaker.com/locations/article/top_10_movie_cities_2008_best_places_to_make_movies_20080128]Top</a> 10 Movie Cities 2008 / MM</p>
<p>I do hope Philly can improve. I like the east coast vibe better and I am hoping there are more choices besides Boston, NYC, and DC. I am visiting DC next month to get to know more about it (first time there was few years ago and I was there for only 2 nights). But I already know DC is not cheap. Philly can be a nice cheaper alternative if they can make things look cleaner and fresher.</p>
<p>Sam, as of January of this year, Philly has a new reform-minded mayor who has been getting uniformly rave reviews, as he's brought in the best and the brightest from around the country to take over city departments and programs. As all the articles to which I've linked in this thread demonstrate, Philly is definitely on a steep upward trajectory, and there's a palpable excitement here about the future. Also, as I said above, I suspect that when you were here, you didn't get to see many of the nicest residential neighborhoods both in and outside of Center City. They are quite clean, fresh, and downright classy--and also charming and historic!</p>
<p>As an adult, I've lived in DC and NYC (and other cities not in the northeast), and I find Philly to be the most liveable of all. Many others I know feel the same way. It has many advantages and amenities (in case you haven't been reading my posts :p), is much more affordable than NYC, DC, and Boston, AND, is only about 1 1/2 hours by train from DC and NYC whenever you get a yearning to visit them. Most young professionals who live in Philly LOVE it--especially those who've lived in other cities and really appreciate what Philly has to offer.</p>
<p>You should definitely check it out again in the future, and have someone who really knows the city show you many of the desirable neighborhoods (both in Center City and outside of it). Plus, check out Fairmount Park, including Kelly Drive, Lincoln Drive, and the Wissahickon Valley--beautiful walking and running trails along the Schuylkill River, secluded bubbling brooks, hiking trails, horse trails, scenic overlooks--you'd swear you were in some state or national park and not still within Philadelphia's city limits (which you are)!</p>
<p>Believe me, Philly is one of this country's best kept secrets (unfortunately), but as the growing media coverage like the National Geographic Traveler article (to which I linked in post #57) demonstrates, it won't remain secret for long.</p>
<p>We can haggle about Philadelphia vs. Chicago or Philadelphia vs. Nashville, but the main point is that Philadelphia in general, and Penn specifically, is a perfectly great city in which to go to college. You won't get bored, and you won't get killed. Really.</p>