<p>Maybe (well likely ) this is wishful thinking, 
but it does seem there are fewer applying this year-- at least in our area. We know quite a few girls who intended to apply, but have in the last year dropped out of the whole MT BFAthon. The reasons vary, but I think there is increasing knowledge out there of just how competitive, Expensive and random “the process” can be, and only the truly hard core are willing to enter the process. They see their local “stars” fall or meet with limited success and think, wow, if so and so isnt getting accepted to a good BFA program, then my chances nil. There’s that. We’ve also seen quite a few (I’d say about 20%!] return after a year at [insert dream school] for varying reasons, sometimes money, sometimes disappointment in the education, sometimes not ready to leave home etc. We’ve also seen people “succeed” and finish their (well recognized) program, return home, and work at the local Starbucks.</p>
<p>Agree that it is not about the number accepted. It is about the percentage accepted. The size of the program doesn’t indicate competitiveness. If a big program accepts 4% and a small program accepts 4%, that is the same in terms of odds of admissions. </p>
<p>However, there are other factors that play a part in how selective a program can be. Reputation can play a part. The competitiveness of the applicant pool OVERALL to a school (top candidates will apply to an array of schools but the concentration of top applicants to certain schools may be stronger than to less competitive programs). There are also all the factors you can’t control as to the needs of the program and your type, etc. But I do think there is some general idea of which schools tend to be more competitive to get into than others artistically speaking, but it is very rough and often you will find kids who are accepted at what is considered a “top” program and rejected at what many consider to be not as competitive and so it is not clear cut of course. </p>
<p>As one example, when my D was applying to BFA in MT programs, she had many friends from around the country who were also applying. These friends were overall, super talented and indeed got admitted to many programs, including ones that most consider top programs. These particular kids, for example, were not in the applicant pool to Millikin, SUNY Buffalo, Illinois Wesleyan, Wright State, Wagner, Shenandoah, Marymount Manhattan, or Roosevelt. Those are all very good programs and I have recommended them to others. And there are top talented kids in every program. But there are some top talented kids who are not even in the applicant pool to some MT programs and the applicant pool to those programs may not be as saturated with the kids who end up at the most renown programs. </p>
<p>“But there are some top talented kids who are not even in the applicant pool to some MT programs and the applicant pool to those programs may not be as saturated with the kids who end up at the most renown programs.” </p>
<p>And there are top talented kids who don’t apply to CMU, Juillard and such either so that reduces the talent pool in those applying to the top programs as well. </p>
<p>Of course you are correct Bisouu- but I think may be b/c you can’t apply EVERYWHERE (though it seemed to me at one point last year like we were working on it!) For example, my D (not claiming her to be “top talented”- just relaying experience) did not apply to Julliard last year b/c research indicated that they are less likely to accept an 18 year old. (certainly compared to college BFA programs) She didn’t apply to U Mich b/c she didn’t like the vibe she got when we toured. Those are unarguably top programs. But she did audition for a variety of others that would make most people’s “top program” list. But IMHO any individual student’s choice vis a vis a single school isn’t the point - it’s more the mathematical odds. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Somewhere in the intersection of lots of viewpoints, you can kind of form a picture.</p>
<p>Here are some lists that might be of interest, but note the various caveats:</p>
<ol>
<li>The list in post #75 of this thread.</li>
<li>The list in this post: <a href=“Simple, Loose Indication of Best Musical Theatre Schools - #25 by EmsDad - Musical Theater Major - College Confidential Forums”>Simple, Loose Indication of Best Musical Theatre Schools - #25 by EmsDad - Musical Theater Major - College Confidential Forums;
<li>The list in this post: <a href=“Which Colleges Did Current Broadway Performers Attend? - #146 by EmsDad - Musical Theater Major - College Confidential Forums”>Which Colleges Did Current Broadway Performers Attend? - #146 by EmsDad - Musical Theater Major - College Confidential Forums;
</ol>
<p>Here are some threads that might be of some interest:</p>
<p><a href=“Best Musical Theatre Schools based on Broadway Alumni - Musical Theater Major - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/1479281-best-musical-theatre-schools-based-on-broadway-alumni.html</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/1116787-colleges-did-current-broadway-performers-attend-10.html”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/1116787-colleges-did-current-broadway-performers-attend-10.html</a></p>
<p><a href=“Top MT BFA Programs? - Musical Theater Major - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/912438-top-mt-bfa-programs-p1.html</a></p>
<p><a href=“Musical Theater College Ranking: Opinions? - Musical Theater Major - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/439469-musical-theater-college-ranking-opinions-p1.html</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/115201-best-programs.htmlhttp://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/571238-best-musical-theater-schools.html”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/115201-best-programs.htmlhttp://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/571238-best-musical-theater-schools.html</a></p>
<p><a href=“Your Opinions: BFA MT College Rankings - Musical Theater Major - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/205286-your-opinions-bfa-mt-college-rankings.html</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/389999-mt-colleges-tiers.html”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/389999-mt-colleges-tiers.html</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/317121-top-10-whatever-musical-theatre-programs.html”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/317121-top-10-whatever-musical-theatre-programs.html</a></p>
<p><a href=“Which College prepares you best for Broadway? - Musical Theater Major - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/1337495-which-college-prepares-you-best-for-broadway-p1.html</a></p>
<p>I agree with toowonderful in post #123. Yes, some very competitive candidates do not apply to every highly selective BFA program, particularly if they are seeking good fits. Not only that, but there is a limit to the number they should apply to. </p>
<p>Not saying my kid is a “top tier” talent at all. But for example, she applied to just 8 BFA programs. There are more than 8 that are considered the most competitive. For example, she did not apply to CCM, which many consider one of the most renown programs for MT. As well, like any candidate should, she applied to a range of schools to help the odds. Her list was right for her and worked out. </p>
<p>The top talented kids apply to all sorts of programs and they should because the odds are tough and they should have a range of schools. Still, I think the concentration of the applicant pool differs between a school like U of Michigan and a school like Roosevelt in an OVERALL sense (yes, top talented kids apply and attend both schools!). I think this makes the odds to get into U of Michigan tougher odds. Again, this is not that different than comparing the application pool to Princeton vs. the application pool to Drexel University or Champlain College. And yes, academically competitive students don’t apply to every highly selective university. My daughter applied to Princeton, Brown, Univ. of Pennsylvania, and Yale, but not Harvard or Stanford. Harvard was not a good fit for what she wanted in college and did not have her intended major, for example. She wanted to be on the East Coast and Stanford is in CA. </p>
<p>Still mad at myself…I had Dr John from Otterbein all to myself at the family brunch last month and I rambled about other stuff and never asked him what I really wanted to know which was…how many prescreens and live auditions they had last year. We kept hearing last year was a record breaking year at several programs but none of us have any numbers to back that up. So this post means nothing other than I have no % to share. </p>
<p>@MTMajorCook I spoke in person with a Otterbein counselor recently and I could be remembering wrong, but I’m pretty sure he said they had around 200 live auditions, I forget how many prescreens they got though. He could’ve said 400-500 but I just remember feeling surprised when I heard the number of prescreens they got, as I thought it would be more.</p>
<p>So if 700 auditioned and Otterbein took 5 what would that percentage be?</p>
<p>^^They don’t only take 5; they aim for a performing class of 16 and usually accept that many in the first round (8 Acting, 8 MT, possibly 2-3 more MT dance concentrators). Then they go to a structured waitlist. So that’s fewer than 10% from live auditions–but not by much. They very much look for fit and for kids who they think will thrive in their particular setting and work well with the entire program (not just within their class, as everyone auditions for all productions, starting with the spring shows of their freshman year). It’d be interesting to know a more specific number for prescreens, but I think it does vary from year to year.</p>
<p>Under 1%, (.007) Right? </p>
<p>Oops, sorry, toowonderful–we cross-posted. The question is a bit misleading as Otterbein neither auditions 700 nor accepts 5!</p>
<p>If they prescreen 500 and audition 200 that equals 500 who apply/audition. So if they pick 8 MT (half of which are probably girls then the number is 4. I guess we need to know how many of the 500 are MT or straight acting. But I think 1% seems about right…</p>
<p>Less than 1%. Which would put it in the highest competitive category. But I would be very surprised if they receive 700 applications. I think the 400 to 500 sounds more likely.</p>
<p>Chapman BFA in acting had over 500 applicants and they took 20 girls… 4% acceptance rate correct? I guess the point I am trying to make and am doing a poor job is that these programs are ALL highly selective and to base a programs prestige on their acceptance rates might not tell you much…</p>
<p>We are again confusing acceptance rate with attendance rate. Chapman probably accepts something like 30 (or more) to yield 20. So that would make the acceptance rate something like 6% which is still highly selective and considered a “reach” school.</p>
<p>Thank you, sooziet - that was very helpful! (I was thrilled to see Marymount Manhattan on your list of schools that doesn’t draw that huge “national” pool of applicants - that’s one of our top choices, because we live in Brooklyn so D could commute and save on housing, and it has the curriculum she wants, and the tuition is less than a lot of the others AND they give a lot of academic merit aid). </p>
<p>EmsDad, thank you so much for the links to all those threads! That is very helpful!</p>
<p>ALSO, and this is important to remember: a (relatively) “high” acceptance rate does not indicate a “lesser” program. I always tell people to apply to NYU (if they have the academic stats and don’t mind being in an acting studio), Boston Conservatory (if they have the $), and Rider, because all those programs accept a TON (relatively, as I said) of kids. They are just larger programs. But it does not mean at all that they are lower quality programs!!</p>
<p>Bad case of insomnia tonight so I will attempt to make a point that will undoubtedly not make sense in the morning. Since it already is morning, it doesn’t bode well.</p>
<p>I want to say that you need to look at the competitiveness of schools for any individual in its own silo because comparisons between programs are somewhat meaningless. Let’s say College A takes 30 kids to net 15 and if you had the luxury of really knowing in advance what College A is looking for and could crystal ball the skill set and actual audition performance of everyone else who will be auditioning. You discover you are objectively the 31st best fit they will audition out of 500. Meanwhile, your best friend is the 99th best fit they will audition. Your odds of getting into College A that year are exactly the same as your best friend’s - out is out. Same can be said for numbers 1-30. Their odds of getting in are all the same. In is in.</p>
<p>Now assume like a herd of cattle the exact same 500 people audition at College B (this never happens but let’s pretend) and College B accepts 100 to net 50 AND College B is looking for the exact same skill set as College A. College B is just as competitive for your best friend as was College A. Out is still out. For you however, College B is less competitive because now you are inside the range of what the College B wants. </p>
<p>Anyway, what I’m trying to say with these ludicrous examples is that how hard it is to get into a particular school for YOU is what matters and it is dependent on how closely you match the skillset and other factors the school is looking for and how deep they need to go to find what they want. College A is just as competitive for my sample students as CMU with its small class size and high yield. My suggestion is that if you really want to understand your odds, you need to do your best to understand what the college seems to want (which can vary from year to year so good luck with that) and whether or not you are within striking distance of what they seem to be looking for. But even that doesn’t solve the unknowable part: who else will show up with a better fit. You can’t know that so don’t worry about it. If you know you are within striking distance skill wise of what they seem to be looking for at least historically, apply - you never know. </p>