Is this discrimination? I don’t want to cry racism.

So I’m a rising hispanic senior at a predominantly white school. I’ve been taking regular english classes up until senior year. This year (junior year), my english grade average was a 94. My teacher said I was at the top of my english class and that I was one of his best students. I thought that with my average, I would have gotten recommended to honors before, however, he recommended me for English CP-which is regular. I was saddened because I thought that I was finally good enough to be recommended to a higher level. I didn’t think of discrimination or anything relating to the sort. It wasn’t until one day at lunch where I realized something was iffy. This girl in my english class-lets call her Bee-not to make everything about ethnicity, but she was strictly caucasian, told me she had been recommended to English honors. I asked her what her grade was in our english class, and she said she had a 90. My teacher said before that ‘Bee’ never handed in important assignments which made her grade go down. Apparently for the first two semesters, she had an 89. I asked my friends about this, they said to talk to my teacher. I never got the chance to because I didn’t want to waste my time arguing about that. I asked my stepdad then, and he said he would go to the school because it’s “racism”. I’m thankfully now going into English honors for senior year since I wrote an “appeal” to get recommended to that class. However, I just want everyone’s opinions about this. Is this racism or discrimination. Is it just him believing I won’t be able to handle a harder class? Please no rude comments. I just want your opinions. Thank you.

It’s not racism or discrimination. It’s likely an honest mistake. I’ve seen it happen all the time with people of all colors, races, religions, sexes, etc.

Did you ask to be put in the honors section? Perhaps Bee did ask, has a parent who asked, or really has a lot of talent but doesn’t turn in the work so the teacher knows she can do the work.

Some students prefer to stay in College Prep classes and get better grades than to go to the honors section. If you want to go to honors, ask the teacher to recommend you. I’d leave Bee out of it though and just focus on what YOU want for YOU.

I agree, just ask the teacher. I am more concerned over you and the teacher discussing Bee not turning in work causing her grade to go down. Bee is not your concern, advocating for yourself should be your primary focus.

It sounds as if the problem has already been corrected as far as the outcome for you.

And in the individual case, it’s very hard to tell or to prove whether racial bias played into what happened. I don’t think any of us here should be too quick to bat away such suspicions - there is plenty of research to show that students of color are referred to gifted programs, honors classes, etc. at lower rates even when you control for grades and scores. It definitely happens. Whether that was the operative factor in your case - it’s possible but then again it could have been some other reason or just a mistake. That’s the insidious nature of racial bias - it’s often hard to prove but also hard to rule out.

IMHO, the direction to take this in now is to look into the statistics and trends at your school, as far as tracking students of color into Honors classes. I think it would be a great thing to do, to advocate for greater diversity and representation in these classes, and to question whether students of color are being given this option as often as possible. In that context, you can point out your own experience, not as a grievance per se, but as a “case in point” that shows how one clearly qualified student would have been passed over if not for her own initiative.

I know that at my daughters’ high school, one thing that was done to promote diversity in Honors and AP classes was to loosen the whole “referral” system and give students more freedom to self-refer if they wanted to seek more challenge. This might be something you could advocate for. If you address it as a systemic issue, rather getting too caught up in trying to debrief your teacher’s specific intentions and biases in your individual case, you may be able to smooth the path for the students who come after you, and give your teacher an opportunity for self-reflection in the process.

Question: who was doing the recommending for placement into the next year honors course? I.e. was it your English teacher, or someone else (e.g. counselors)?

Have to agree here.

Some high schools offer placement in honors courses strictly based on grade in the prior course (e.g. A in prior regular course or B in prior honors course is needed to take the following honors course). Of course, if there is racial (or otherwise undesirable) bias in a teacher’s grading, that can still be a problem, but having it just be based on the prior course grade eliminates any shenanigans or mistakes that an additional referral or recommendation procedure could allow in.

I have heard of some schools who do limit the number of students who go into honors classes (call it resource allocation). As space gets tight, they may start picking the known “squeaky wheels”, those whose parents are quick to be there for backup. You may have fallen in the quiet crowd. Bee, OTOH, may have been one of the squeaky wheels. Racism may or may not have anything to do with it. I am glad to hear you successfully advocated for yourself. It’s a useful skill that can take practice.

It’s not racism until it is-proven with something said or some way to validate. Some parents are really, really pushy. My youngest kid in grammar school wasn’t in the pull out section of advanced math. When I asked the teacher why, she said other parents had pushed really hard and there were only two spots. My kid skipped a grade in math, went on to win multiple national math awards and started Calc as a 9th grader. Never got less than 100 on a math test ever. Often rewrote the problems to solve in different ways. Those other kids, not so much. No race factor, just parent factor. And BTW, the teacher pulled out a folder about 3 inches thick with all the JOhns Hopkins Math challenges my kid had done when those other kids were at " advanced" math.

Have your Dad focus on the results not race. Getting into the class is what matters. And ask why it wasn’t done the first time.

Lots of other factors that would be lead into decisions and I wouldnt call it discrimination without other data.
Also, start to stop asking other students what their grades are. This shows a bit of immaturity in my opinion. I would rather have a student come in and say “I really want to be in the honors class and would like to know how I can improve so that I could be successful in that course” than one who just says “Well I was gossiping and I know that Bee got a lower grade than me so why is she in and Im not”. See the difference?

The “squeaky wheel” issue cuts through all race/sexes. Our family is multi-cultural and our kid was placed in an incorrect math sequence for two years running - despite falling from the STEM side of the family tree. The kid’s physical size and “not presenting as a typical STEM student” may have been a small part of this - but mostly, in this case, the teacher had an extra half of a class of kids trying to do the next level up in math, and not all could (ie. some dropped down a level after the first month).

Our kid was new to the school and I didn’t know enough about math to switch things. It took some convincing (the guidance counselor was supportive, teachers less so), but the schedule’s on track now.

As a family, we didn’t let this stop us. This happens frequently in education, and due to the sheer volume of students out there, you have to advocate for yourself in a positive, factual manner (ie. your appeal was successful because the mistake was changed after you made a cogent argument about your grade).

In life, you will be shut out of things because others in a position of power want to work with people who are the same background, sexual preference, socioeconomic level, etc. I’ve experienced it at work, my spouse has, my kid has in academic matters (and we are all quite different in our biological make-ups).

There is still such a thing as a “teacher’s pet.” One language teacher my kid’s school is incredibly hot/cold and everyone just knows to keep their head down and not make too much of a fuss. It still happens in this day and age.

Appeal when you need to (great job in your case, by the way!). And keep moving forward.

OP, Hispanic parent here. I agree with Ucbalumnus and especially with Aquapt’s highlighted paragraph. With that said, IMO I would not pursue a complaint without better proof. Accusing someone of racism or bias is a very serious charge. Only shoot that cannon at someone if you are 100% sure you are correct. What if you are wrong? As the other posters have mentioned, there could be some key piece of information about Bee’s situation that you are unaware of that accounts for her recommendation to move up. Its very possible she or her parents simply asked for it ahead of the recommendation.

Neither of these have any basis in fact and are dangerous assumptions. Sadly, that never seems to stop anyone these days.

I don’t really think that the “limited space” argument vis-a-vis honors classes should be accepted without question. IMHO this is an example of manufactured scarcity. If more students want to take on the workload and expectations associated with an honors class, then more of the sections should be honors sections. Why not? There is nothing about honors-level classes that causes their value to be degraded by wider participation, so long as the same standard is maintained. The whole “there isn’t room” premise is nonsense. Everybody needs an English class, and the staffing levels needed are the same regardless of the relative enrollment in honors vs. non-honors. This is just bureaucratic laziness that deserves to be challenged. Every high school waxes poetic about how they urge their students to strive for excellence; turning away students who seek to do just that is foolish and hypocritical.

@bri_rodriguezzz As others have said - it could be, or not. Unless a teacher explicitly uses a racist argument to justify their decisions, it is almost impossible to know from a single case.

What’s more is that, in racist decisions, a teacher may not even be doing it consciously. That is one of the things that is so insidious about racism. A teacher may be thinking that each of their decisions are justified for other reasons, and will not even realize this until you show them that, for a giver set of qualification, they place a White kid in an e]advanced class, but will be more likely not to do so for a Black of Latino kid. The conscious mind is often pretty good and finding excuses for things that it does based on unrealized bias.

A person who has grown up knowing that racism is bad, but has also been exposed to a lot of racist education, will find themselves engaging in racist behavior, even small things like, when a person is being snappish with them, thinking “how nasty”, as opposed to “must have had a bad day”. It can also be a bit less subtle as in, when told that “Jim is in court today”, a person can make different assumptions as to why Jim is in court, based on their race.

In this case, since the teacher changed their decisions, based on your appeal, I would say that it most likely was not a decision that was made because of conscious racism. That would likely have resulted in a flat rejection of your request. So the requirement to demonstrate that this is a pattern of behavior is far stronger. In all honesty, the amount of work that this would require on your part is not worth it.

However, if you hear similar stories from other Black or Hispanic students, it may be worthwhile to look into it, if you really feel the need. As it is, you are where you need to be, and there is no evidence that the teacher’s decision was based on race. So let it be for now.

Caucasian parent here. After having S20 graduate and S21 being a senior at a public school I would say probably not racism. I was thinking “squeeky wheel”. I’ve had to “push” several times to get my kids into programs or tested. Sometimes it’s a numbers game. Sometimes it’s a teacher playing favorites. Sometimes it was someone not doing their job. Sometimes it was my kids not knowing or communicating or self advocating.

Not saying racism doesn’t exist but please have some solid proof if you want to go that route. You can really do some damage to someone’s reputation and career in today’s environment.

This kind of thing happened to my son during his tenure at public school. We are white. We are also not "connected " in the community and I was never comfortable being "that parent. "

I think it’s great that you got the outcome you wanted and deserved.

If you see systemic bias in your school, by all means take it on. But this incident, now resolved, is not worth fighting over.

Hi Bri, saying the “r” word on CC will lead to a lot of unhelpful responses.

Here’s is what happened to my son. We are a minority family.

In elementary, he was not marked for advanced classes even though he was obviously at least as intelligent as most of the kids in the class, and tested well enough on the placement test to be admitted. In elementary, most of the spots in the limited space were taken by children of the mothers in the PTA group who harassed the advanced teacher and principal to place their kids in that class. Nearly every PTA parent was a white housewife who did not work and was able to be a constant squeaky wheel.

In middle school, he was again not placed in advanced classes because in our district, that is mostly a carryover effect of elementary. Nevertheless, my son worked hard in middle school, earned great grades, and was recommended (a written recommendation) by his middle-school teachers/counselors to be placed in Honors/advanced classes when he started high school.

When he started high school, he was not placed in a single Honors/Advanced class. To add insult to injury, he was placed in remedial English, remedial Math, and remedial Science. When I went to the school to have this corrected, the counselor said nothing could be done and tried to end the conversation there. It took a long discussion before the counselor finally admitted my son should not be in remedial classes and should be in Honors classes.

Call it “R” or whatever. It definitely happens. And in my anectdotal experience, it happens a lot to minorities.

I would have recommended your father go to the school and speak with the counselor/teacher. Be polite, but do not accept “NO” for an answer. If you have the grades, you should be allowed correct placement.

Good luck and I am so sorry you had to go through this. Congratulations on successfully working against a sometimes unjust system. This was actually good practice for you – unfortunately, it’s very possible you’ll have to keep speaking up for yourself and your rights. Any time you fail to assert yourself, you’ll fall further behind where you want to be. Keep asserting yourself!

@EconPop , you have so clearly described how this happens. In the case I described, I was definitely one of the few moms who worked outside the home. But it wasn’t lost on me that anyone who needed to work full time and couldn’t constantly be in the school was disadvantaged. And right there, you have a wealth bias (which may or may not also link to race. In my community, it does, btw.)

@EconPop Yeah, exactly what happens at our school. Mostly white but the PTA moms dominate everything. My wife works so she couldn’t be involved in everything school related like the stay-at-home moms (good for them if you can and want to do it). Since kindergarten it’s pretty obvious who’s mom works and who’s mom doesn’t. You can tell within 30 seconds when talking to the other moms.

After a few years it just got to be laughable. They have a Facebook page at our school. Whenever my wife and kids need a good laugh they check it…too much free time on their hands.

Agreed. I have always worked outside the home. Im not “friends” with any of the teachers. Being divorced and a split family (who the other side has more than once caused waves in a negative way within the schools), my kids seem to always have a steep hill to climb as none of the teachers seem to want to deal with “us” (dad/stepmom). One of my children is not white but they are also not as academically advanced as her older sibling. So if they got passed over I wouldnt be certain if it was due to me not being part of the “in parent” crowd, them avoiding the drama that sometimes dad/stepmom causes, that they dont think my kid has the academic fortitude to succeed, or is it just underlying systemic racism that gives preference to white students?