<p>skygirl, maybe you could get a job after school and on the weekends if you're serious about goin to college?</p>
<p>just a suggestion</p>
<p>To be honest, I'm finding some of these responses to be very outraging. Who are some of you to tell this girl that its HER own fault she and her family doesn't have much exorbitant money?</p>
<p>Just because her family doesn't have money, how can you blame it on HER specifically?</p>
<p>Just because her family doesn't make a lot of money does not mean that she has not worked hard in school, or that her family is just farting around. Did any of you think to stop and consider the fact that you are judging her simply because she says she is under financial difficulty?</p>
<p>She never stated that her parents didn't go to college, she never stated that she is a first generation college student, and you have no idea what the holistic context of her financial situation is. Instead of judging this girl, I'd suggest actually talking about the topic alone and leave her out of it.</p>
<p>I realize this does not apply to everyone and only a select few in this thread, but please don't go badmouthing those who complain about a financial burden like college.</p>
<p>I think the OP underestimates the strain paying for college can put on a middle-class family. My folks aren't exactly poorly off, but I have three younger brothers to think of. If I hadn't gotten excellent merit aid from U Pitt, there's almost no way I could have conscionably gone out of state.</p>
<p>The fact of the matter is, the middle class is hurt more by the current financial aid system than the lower class. And the only way to change the situation is to ensure that more of the money shelled out in aid (federal, state, and university-based) is given for reasons of merit. People who are qualified, yet cannot afford to pay for college, should absolutely receive aid. </p>
<p>Of course, maintaining a system that pays out to underqualified individuals while leaving many qualified individuals scrabbling for cash can serve little useful purpose. Countries that are able to maintain low costs for public universities due to state subsidies--especially in Europe--do so in large part by maintaining minimum requirements for attending universities. I do not personally support the European model, if only because of the expense and impracticality of its implementation in a large country full of people convinced of their entitlement to attend a four-year institution when in a more reasonable educational climate they would be more likely to go to a tech school or community college.</p>
<p>For these and other reasons, keeping the current system is really the only viable option. The disruption of changing it--not to mention the loss of institutional sovereignty--would outweigh most of the benefits.</p>
<p>"The fact of the matter is, the middle class is hurt more by the current financial aid system than the lower class. "</p>
<p>Not true (and am saying this as a person who is middle class).</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Most colleges are not able to meet 100% of students' financial need. </p></li>
<li><p>The colleges that can meet 100% of students' financial need, and can do this without saddling students with high loans, are the colleges that are the most competitive in the country. Low income students are far less likely to be able to go to such colleges than are middle class students because low income students are more likely to go to weak secondary schools (since most students go to schools in their own neighborhood, and public school quality is determined a lot by property taxes in the schools' area).</p></li>
<li><p>When it comes to loans, it's far harder for lower class students to repay them. After college, middle class students are more likely to be able to get help from family as they look for jobs, acquire their own living quarters, etc. By contrast, low income students may have had to financially help their families when they were in college and afterward.</p></li>
<li><p>The aid that only low income students qualify for --Pell Grants -- for instance is so low that it wouldn't pay for tuition at most in state 4-year public schools.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Do you not think that someone who works extremely hard deserves to be rewarded for their efforts? </p>
<p>Warning: I'm about to give some extreme examples. I'm all for everyone affording college. I understand your situation must be extremely frustrating, but you also have to see the other sides. </p>
<p>There is very little merit money (too little, in my opinion), and I believe that people who work very hard through high school deserve scholarships, no matter their financial situation, high or low. It's a way of recognizing and rewarding people who have achieved incredible things. </p>
<p>Need based aid: colleges do the best they can to determine who can and can't afford college. They're not going to give a millionare need based aid. However, this system still isn't fair. My dad is a farmer, my mom is a teacher. The family has a lot of assets in the farm, and because of this, I was offered NO financial aid. My parents can't sell half of the farm to put me through college. That's ridiculous. Luckily, I got a scholarship that pay in full for me to attend any college in my state. I'm incredibly thankful for this and I've worked really hard to earn it. Are you saying I don't deserve it? </p>
<p>I know a girl who lives off of welfare. I'm not exactly sure what her situation is, but this is what I've gathered: her mother (single mother) doesn't work because she feels she is above the kinds of jobs she could get with her education. Occasionally she works as a psychic. Basically, the family is very poor, and the girl I know recieved almost all of her tuition NEED-based in scholarships, so she's not paying a thing. </p>
<p>Is it fair that because her mother refuses to work, she would have an easier time affording college than me, because my parents are working 12 hour days to earn a living for the family? </p>
<p>PLEASE TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION THAT I'M MOSTLY JUST TRYING TO PLAY THE DEVIL'S ADVOCATE. I BELIEVE IN HELPING PEOPLE OUT WHO TRULY NEED IT BUT YOU CAN'T TAKE AWAY FROM OTHER PEOPLE WHO DESERVE IT TO DO THAT. </p>
<p>I hope I didn't offend anyone with my anecdotes.</p>
<p>One could argue that need-based aid is unfair for families whose parents have to pay with their own hard-earned money whilst low-income families can send their kid to college for free.</p>
<p>Skygirl:</p>
<p>It is a really tough fact to face at a young age, but here it is:</p>
<p>Life is not fair! I will not burden you and the readers with examples, but your question, as I read it, is that it is not fair how colleges award aid and scholarships. The answer is simple that it is the money that the college or university is willing to GIVE to students.</p>
<p>Now there are federal guidelines that govern financial aid that most colleges and universities have agreed to follow. (A few colleges and universities refuse federal aid and therefore those C/U are not governed by the federal rules under FAFSA).</p>
<p>So the award of financial aid is relatively controlled. However Scholarships are awarded by the college at their discretion, period.</p>
<p>It could be for Music. Art, Dance, Athletics, Community Service, Academics, Diversity or whatever criteria the college has competently established.</p>
<p>Now they could give scholarship money to any student they wish. It is the C/U's money. How they give away their money is their business and while I or you might wish otherwise, it is THEIR MONEY and Their Wishes!</p>
<p>Were it a perfect world, but it is not it is an UNFAIR world. BTW, consider that only 1% of the entire population of the globe have even a possibility of attending college, you are one of that 1%. I grant you that many of that 1% are in a better situation that yourself, but that is how it is.</p>
<p>For you the glass is at least available, even if it is far from filled. Good luck and I do hope lyou pursue your opportunities to the full.</p>
<p>If they're awards based on financial need and the family is using some clever accounting to make it look like they need the money (which does happen) then yes that's very bad. However, if the awards are purely based on academic merit and achievement then I see no problem with it.</p>
<p>People work hard and make good of money. People work hard and barely make ends meet. People barely work at all and have all the money they could need. People barely work at all and live subsistance lives.</p>
<p>Most people manage to live their lives pretty responsibly, although their values and their given circumstances may differ.</p>
<p>SkyGirl, I wish you all the best and hope it comes together for you! I'm confident you'll do just fine. And you may get some better options as the decisions come in. Keeping fingers crossed for you.</p>
<p>IMO, it's the people in the middle that get skipped over. Too rich to get finaid, not rich enough to pay their own way.</p>
<p>citymom - I think it is very rude and obnoxious of you to imply that it is this young girl's mothers fault for not working full time, she stated she is sick.</p>
<p>As for the rest of you, going to college is not a right it is a privilege. </p>
<p>Rocketman08 makes a very valid point, this is especially the case with business owners and 1099 employees. They many times report a fraction of their income to the IRS. I know many families where this is indeed the case. </p>
<p>Skygirl: I agree aid should be need-based. For those who say those people worked hard and will have to infer too much of a loss to send their children to school, that should be a choice they should make - whether or not a private education is worth the loss of certain aspects of quality of life they have become accustom to. Don't get me wrong, I am not complaining, I come from a significantly wealthy family myself. If parents can afford to send their children to these expensive private schools, they should be willing to hold off on buying the new Cadillac for another year or two, and finance their kids education. It is not fair that people such as yourself, who need the aid more than anybody should be denied that aid, and have it given to someone who can afford to attend school on their own.</p>
<p>But, as I stated above, college is a privilege not a right. Knowing to live within your means is a part of life. If you truly can not afford to attend private school, financial aid considered and all perhaps you should be looking at attending a public school, or attending a different school. </p>
<p>I understand the desire to attend a certain school and how devastating it can be to someone your age to have the opportunity and not be able to afford it; however, sometimes you have to make decisions with your head, not your heart (for lack of better term.) </p>
<p>From the college's view it must be tough. Financial Aid is one of those areas where schools need to stay competitive. Whether we'd like to admit it or not, the students from wealthy families have more opportunities therefore yielding prestigious accomplishments more so than others. The college's need students like this, their wealth and connections lay down the infrastructure for successful alumni, endowment contributions, etc. etc.. Therefore if they want to attract top students they need to stay competitive with their respected counterparts and offer these students some money so that they do not rule their school out due to the hefty price tag.</p>
<p>I can go on and on about this, but it's all a bunch of liberal nazi propaganda. The wealthy feel they are entitled to their lifestyles and that they should not have to compromise to send their children off to school, and the lower class people feel it is unfair to have decreased (due to more being offered to the wealthy) need-based aid due to political nonsense. I feel for you.</p>
<p>I'm always curious about what people consider "the middle." When posters, in the context of this board, talk about middle income people, what do you mean? Especially in terms of college financial aid.</p>
<p>People earning around 40K are really the middle, I think, nationally. But the meter in the context of this board is very different. Anyone want to contribute their idea of "middle"?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>So income is a direct result of effort? I don't know what planet you are living on, but in most cases those parents are working just as hard to give their families the best life they can possibly give them. the "my friend" reference holds no statistic value.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Now there are federal guidelines that govern financial aid that most colleges and universities have agreed to follow. (A few colleges and universities refuse federal aid and therefore those C/U are not governed by the federal rules under FAFSA).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Please do not give false information. All universities and colleges receive federal aid. FAFSA is federal government assistance with your education. The fact of the matter is all colleges and universities receive federal funding this gives the federal government the power to regulate part of what occurs in these schools to minimize their risk of unduly burdening the commerce clause.</p>
<p>parentof2 - You are on the money when you say it differs geographically. 100k a year in Oklahoma offers the best lifestyle one can live. 100k annually in NYC for a family of 4 will barely get you housing and other bare essentials. That is why net worth is taken into consideration, not just income. The value of property owned is a pretty good indicator of the type of lifestyle a person is living (what they can and can not afford)</p>
<p>I have to say that I agree with you, but I also disagree. Sorry =). I come from an upper middle class family, but not everything is easy. Sure we eat out, and I have a car, but I also don't have a "cool" cell phone or an iPod. My parents sacrificed a lot to give me opportunities that they didn't have when they were growing up (by the way... I'm a first generation Chinese American, so when I say opportunities that they didn't have, I pretty much mean they didn't do anything outside of school). A lot of people in the middle class will have tons of problems affording college tuition, especially if their children are applying to IVs and extremety competitive private and public schools. As long as they worked hard in high school, I don't see why they aren't as deserving as everyone else. Those rich people may have fancy gadgets, but they WILL need to pay 50,000 dollars a year to go to college. People who qualify for financial aid will recieve a full ride to college, no matter how hard they worked in high school; as long as they get into a school, they will recieve a decent financial aid package. People who are rich don't necessarily slack off, and if they deserve the scholarship, why not?</p>
<p>and to answer a previous question, I think a general guideline for middle class is 100,000 or above, but other factors also come into play (props to UriA702). There are a lot of factors involved in the mess of financial aid. That's why it's so hard to apply for it =)</p>
<p>SkyGirl,
There is a distinction between Financial Aid and real merit awarded scholarships. We don't make the rules; we just have to play by them or not participate. We are in that group of hard working parents who do not qualify for financial aid at any of the colleges/universities. FAFSA was a total waste of time for us to file. We knew that when my son was entering high school. Our instructions to him was that his job during the four years of high school was to find all the scholarship money he could because that was how he was going to be able to afford to go to college.<br>
We did save money for him to attend college but no where would it have paid for all four years at any out of town school much less an out of state institution. To his credit he worked very hard at school and at his scholarship applications. To date, he has received letters of scholarship awards totaling close to $100K. These do not include the two appointments to the US Service Academies, of which I know he will accept one of the appointments. The appointments carry with them an award averaging $250K over the four years.
My child is not an Einstein by any means; he was slated to repeat a grade in grade school. However, he is a very hard working and focused individual. He took many honors and AP classes and brought home report cards deserving of highest honors every semester. He also participated in athletics, student government, school organizations, and volunteered. He learned the value of hard work from his parents and grandparents and he is now reaping the rewards of his labor.<br>
My point is financial aid and aid based scholarships are only one way of letting somebody assist you in going to school. There are hundreds if not thousands of ways to "earn" money by non-financial aid and/or merit based scholarships. However, they will not just drop in your lap. You do have to exert the effort to find and work for this money. Working while going to school is an honorable option, also. My husband and I put ourselves through college this way.<br>
By the way, feeling sorry for yourself or angry at some other kids who seem to have all the money in the world is a waste of energy. Re-direct that energy into finding your own scholarship money or working harder at school or networking with people who can help you figure out how to pay for college is a much better use of that energy.<br>
Good luck.</p>
<p>Thanks, SandyBeach. Would love to hear others' sense of what "middle" is, too. It's funny, because the difference between what the US Census would call "middle" and what Harvard recently called "middle" is astounding.</p>
<p>life is not fair. The sooner you realize that the better. Also even if you're poor, you're poor in the US, which is still a lot better than being poor in third world countries.</p>
<p>UriA702:
If you can read, I never implied that OP's mother or father do not want to work. just the opposite. Read carefully.
But it is true that there are millions of women inthis country who watch soap operas during the day and complain about not having money to pay for college. And I think that either mother's salary should be excluded from family income by FAFSA, or any family with no children under 12 should receive reduced fin. aid if a mother is not working full time. It's her choice. [disability excluded]</p>