<p>Personally, I would hate seeing colleges get into value judgements about working moms (that is, double income families) vs. stay-at-home moms (single income families), or artists and teachers (people who chose lower-paying occupations) vs. bankers and lawyers, or whatever. What about the kid with the alcoholic parent? My father was a far-gone drunk who couldn't hold a job. Imagine if his children were disadvantaged in the FA process because of his choices. It's too complicated and not the business of FA formulas to account for such things.</p>
<p>I think if the aid is about the student, and if it's need-based aid, it should be based on the student's need and the resources available to cover it. Anything else would be the slipperiest of slopes.</p>
<p>Besides, if a family felt their children would be better advantaged in terms of college financial aid by coming from a traditional, single-bread-winner family, then they could chose that, too. It would no doubt change rather dramatically what they could afford to do and buy and where they might be able to live, etc., but it would be a choice they could make. Or if the second income earner loves to work, or wants to work, then that is a choice too. It's all a choice.</p>
<p>People I have read on CC that seem to know what they're talking about as far as money and college go, seem to uniformly agree that even with reduced aid, a family is financially better off with more income.</p>
<p>As others have mentioned, there are many circumstances that are often not really taken into account when looking at the financial aid/paying for college issue. </p>
<p>I am from what most would consider an upper class family and it would appear at first glance that my family makes enough money to send me to college, we are a single income family and my dad makes around 100k per year. However, if I hadn't gotten into a service academy, and if my sister hadn't managed to get her merit based scholarship, then there would not be nearly enough money to send my younger 2 sisters to school, because my parents went through college on their own, my mom working to help put my dad through med school, and they accumulated loans that took a long time to pay off. </p>
<p>With the rising cost of tuition these days, there are very few families that can afford college outright. I only know of maybe one in my school, and that is because of an inheritance. So, sorry for my rambling, I got a little carried away, but my point is, don't just look at the way things appear, college aid is a tough thing to regulate and it may not be fair, but you have to look at both sides. </p>
<p>On a side note, I mentioned that I am attending a service academy and others have mentioned federal aid and merit scholarships. I just thought I would mention that another form of scholarship is a ROTC scholarship, or even joining the reserves. I have a friend who is paying for his college that way. </p>
<p>I hope I did not offend anyone with my post, as that was not my intention, and good luck SkyGirl, I'm sure that you will find a way to achieve your goals</p>
<p>Private universities are a luxury and should be treated as that. If you don't get money from them, don't go. Plenty of state schools are funded by taxpayers for the explicit purpose of educating the next generation of the workforce. These state schools are quite affordable with a combination of loans, grants, part time jobs, and parental assistance.</p>
<p>In part, that depends upon one's definition of "quite affordable." Costs at flagship state universities can range up to $20,000. Community colleges are, of course, much less expensive. Nonetheless, truly poor students often must struggle to pay living expenses while obtaining their college degrees. Those who are able to manage this situation deserve respect from all of us.</p>
<p>In any event, I sympathize with the OP, who is apparently attending high school with students who are much more affluent than her. Some kids are just boorish about their money and good fortune generally. Nonetheless, as a parent who is affluent by any reasonable standard, I strongly encourage my 3 children (who will all be in college at the same time) to aggressively pursue all merit scholarship opportunities. Affluent is not the same as absurdly rich, and while I can pay what is necessary, it would be a great financial strain to pay three tuitions at once. I didn't make the rules but am entitled to take full advantage of them (so long as I play fair).</p>
<p>So the OP's anger should be directed at those who make the rules--college administrators. She really has no valid complaint about the practices of private colleges--it is their money and they can use it as they see fit. Public colleges are another matter. In my view, they should be in the business of providing education for all qualified citizens, rather than competing with selective private schools and one another for the "best" students. So if I ruled the world, all financial aid at such schools would be need-based. Unfortunately, high level administrators at flagship (or even second level) public schools generally don't see it that way. They are often more interested in impressing other administrators and moving up the US News rankings than in creating a system that is socially just. So they often devote substantial sums of money to merit aid.</p>
<p>sky, i know you are really smart. i have seen your stats. i don't understand why you shouldn't get great financial aid. it's obvious you have worked very hard and should be able to have big dreams about your college. in my state, your stats would entitle you to a full ride, merit based, at many state schools, but if you want a private shcool, you shouldn't be criticized for it. our family can pay the bills and go out to eat when we want so i feel rich. my parents would never except financial aid, even if we could get some because they feel there are students that have greater need. you have had circumstances beyond your control and you choose to work hard for a better future. i want to believe that you will get great news because there will be a college out there that sees how determined you are and how much you want and deserve this. you felt like venting and that's what these boards are for.....i have a feeling that you spend more time working than complaining, speaking of which, i have a huge paper due tomorrow!</p>
<p>Skygirl, you said that "people who know me say not to have illusions about getting into private schools." Why is that? Because of finances or grades? If your state flagship school denied you any aid, call them. If the aid is based on merit, then don't complain. There are hard-working kids who also deserve to be rewarded.</p>
<p>Secondly, your thinking is off. You said you didn't like your state school and really didn't want that. You should be grateful that such public institutions exist to offer you the opportunity for a higher education. It is a sorry fact that you lost your Dad and your Mom is ill. Life can be very difficult and unfair at times. However, instead of displacing your anger onto kids whom you delude yourself into thinking are getting something for nothing, recognize that this country was built by centuries of immigrants flocking here. They were poor and lifted themselves up. </p>
<p>I grew up in New York where most everybody took advantage of the City Colleges and the State schools. Both my and my husband's parents came here with nothing as Holocaust Survivors. I never expected to go to a fancy school and am grateful that I was afforded the opportunity for a college education through the public ones. My kids are now the beneficiaries as we try to save for them to offer more. </p>
<p>And finally, I learned from my Dad who survived the concentration camps, that you can do anything if you put your mind to it. Don't give up, don't be resentful and you will persevere.</p>
<p>It doesn't matter whether or not the parents have money, because everyone has to pay. They won't get financial aid, but they should be eligible for scholarships.</p>
<p>Skygirl: I was in your situation 40 years ago. Although I don't have a high school diploma, I did manage to get a B.S., 2 grad degrees, and a professional degree. My oldest child will be entering college in 2010. My wife and I have worked very hard to ensure that money will not be a limiting factor in our daughter's college education. She is a humble kid, doesn't seem spoiled, and has worked very hard in and out of school. She has a laptop and a cell phone because I can afford to buy them for her. She is not a "rich kid" and has not benefitted from "old money". I hope she is not held in contempt because of the choices her parents made many years ago.</p>
<p>Financial aid -- not a chance. Merit scholarship-- who knows, but she will have earned it.</p>
<p>Wow so many views! I just opened this and saw this thread on feature (:.Who put it up? Actually, I didn't put this thread to concentrate on my personal life, but to concentrate on the simple question "Is it fair that rich students apply to scholarships and aids despite having more than enough money to afford their education?" That is all. An ethical question on one Saturday morning.
If ethically they have the resources to spend on wasteful and costly stuff that amounts to their education costs, should not they just use tht money for their education first? I am not talking about middle class parents who have 3 or 4 kids and work hard to get their kids into school. I respect those parents.</p>
<p>Somehow, I guess you want me to answer some personal questions. Ughh. I am going to end up answering a lot. I used to carry 2 part time jobs, but thn down to one since the old place shut down. My late father's job entitled to my mom to some monthly pension. My mom, why is she is not working? My parents were quite old whn they had me. She is now over 55. She even has trouble walking, bedridden a while back. This a used laptop I bought with my savings with a dial up connection and my old gold chain I sold which dad gave me. Annually our income is less thn 6500.
See how silly this post is whn I answer questions? SAT is 2130. My school no AP classes so I took more thn a hour bus ride to nearest school to take AP exams which I study for. But personally it is not about me. I asked an ethical question that does not concentrate on me. I have a huge project I been working all night too and I got to finish that. Are there any questions I missed?
Anyway, the question is not about me. I am asking a purely ethical view. Should not scholarships be applied when the need is actually there for you instead of applying because just for the heck for it?</p>
<p>"My son was just deferred from Yale. SAT 2310, 8 AP's and 8 college credits from Harvard, summer science research and a 95.3 high school average. He is editor-in-chief of Yearbook, and president and captain of all he does at his HS. He also founded a community service program in our town. He has a state rank in Chess as well. What more do they want?"</p>
<p>"P.S. Forgot to mention SAT 2 scores of Math2C-800, Physics-800, BIO-780"</p>
<hr>
<p>obsessed mom, how is it that you can vent but sky can't?
p.s. i think your son should have gotten accepted.</p>
<p>I really can't answer every question because there some personal issues I wrote on my essays. I have been kicking myself for posting my stats publicly so many times but CC is a damn magnet for asking chances.
I hope people discuss objectively from an ethical view point "Why do rich and privileged students apply for scholarships when they clearly can afford the price tag"? And again not about middle class people here. And I am not good at arguing but I wanted to know what is common sense behind this? This is not an angry thread please don't say I am angry. I am just confused on people's ethical reasonings sometimes. Aren't scholarships meant for those with good merit but otherwise need some help out financially with their studies? Why apply for money you don't actually need?</p>
<p>I think people have answered your question. Yes, it is fair for those "rich" kids, as you perceive them, to receive scholarships. They worked as hard as anyone else to get them. They won't be getting financial aid in the form of Pell Grants, etc. Ask the question in reverse: Is it fair for "rich" kids that qualify for merit scholarships to not receive them or apply because they happened to be born to parents that are financially successful? Scholarships are not given just for the heck of it. </p>
<p>As others have stated, for most of those "rich kids" someone has worked very hard to achieve that financial status. By many standards my husband and I have achieved some degree of financial success. We are by no means fabulously wealthy, but we can afford many things if we choose to buy them. Our children will not be eligible for any need based aid. We arrived at this place through our own efforts. Our parents didn't help pay for our state school educations. They couldn't really afford to do so. We paid for our educations ourselves by working inside and outside of the classroom. As an undergraduate I worked 60-70 hours a week in the summers so I would have some money for school. During the school year I worked until my work study funds ran out. Graduate school required 25-30 hours of outside employment a week. Whatever I didn't earn was paid for with loans. After graduation my husband and I had to delay buying a house, having children, and many other things until we could afford to do so considering the amount of student debt we had. </p>
<p>Our children have benefitted from our sacrifices. We have been able to give them opportunities that MAY help them earn scholarships, but it truly is up to them to do so. If they do earn merit scholarships I see that as further "payment" for the sacrifices my husband and I made. That is money that won't be coming from us because we provided them with the means to achieve. </p>
<p>One of the underlying values of our country has been a belief that anyone can make it through effort, sacrifice, and working smart. We are generally a country of self-made people. It's part of the "American Dream." We want our children to be rewarded for our efforts, and we want them to have more than we did or do. In many ways a college education is this belief put into practice. </p>
<p>Another poster said that a private school education is not guaranteed. I would take that a step farther and include state schools. No one is guaranteed a free post-secondary education in this country. All post secondary education is a privilege. Luckily for many young people the government, recognizing the importance of post-secondary education, does assist with the cost. States also provide more affordable options in the form of state universities and community colleges. </p>
<p>When I was a student I had two options: to whine about the opportunities my peers had, the lack of financial aid I received, and that life wasn't fair, or to do what I needed to do in order to receive an education. I choose the latter. I think by many standards it's brought me much more satisfaction in my life.</p>
<p>I don't know what you consider rich people, but I don't think they should get anywhere near as much financial aid. Maybe a little, but it is really designed for students who can't afford college.</p>
<p>And why the hell are colleges so expensive? I'm seriously considering just going to a state school and saving the money instead of having debts for the rest of my life. 40k a year is bullspit.</p>
<p>Your ethical question is valid but who are the people that are rich enough to not needing merit money? Very few, i think, because college education has become so expensive.</p>
<p>My wife and I are reaching 50 and has a combined income of $250K which I think is in the top 10% income of population. We live in a modest home in a nice neighborhood, drive entry luxury cars (Lexus, Acura), both my two kids have ipod, and we have flat screen TV. Becaues of our income and some savings, there is no chance of need aid anywhere.</p>
<p>My older son got accepted into some colleges three year ago(COA in 05'):</p>
<p>Columbia ($45,000)
Rice ($35,000)
Vanderbilt ($25,000)
LSU (our state school, free plus $2,000)</p>
<p>My son ended up attending Rice. We really like Columbia because his grandparents live there and it's an Ivy. But to go there, I really have to postpone my retirement from my sometimes stressfu job for >5 years(no kidding!). On the other hand, both my wife and I are the products of state school (UGA) and we think LSU is just fine (especially for getting paid to go there). In the end, he chose "middle of the road", so to speak. Is it unethical for us to be thinking about merit money? Well, I leave it for people to decide.</p>
<p>How about colleges quit using the term "scholarships" and just settle on Financial Aid? When I was in school, the term "scholarship" indicated merit and as we all know, there are really no pure merit awards anymore. I am not discounting the fact that students need financial aid, but I just wish that colleges would do away with saying "Oh yes, we offer scholarships!" when, in reality, the "scholarship" is based on financial need. What about the kid who has worked very hard thru HS, and perhaps just misses the mark for financial aid. There are no "scholarships" available. Further, loans do not qualify as "financial aid" esp when students are graduating with huge debt. Yes, the loan may have a low interest rate, but debt is debt! Let's do away with the term "scholarship"--esp when it is directly tied to financial aid.</p>
<p>Nice posts so far! Just wanted to add my take on this...</p>
<p>Rich and privileged? I'd say that applies to a whole lot of Americans - and citizens of a few other countries as well. Travel is invaluable for a wider perspective. Shoot, if you can post effectively on this board (with a few exceptions) I'd say that you qualify.</p>
<p>American students receive a good amount of financial assistance when they attend a public institution. It is not titled "Financial Aid" - but it is absolutely assistance. Just look at the difference in cost between private and public institutions - and thank the taxpayers.</p>
<p>No, life definitely ain't fair - see above... I'd recommend that every young"un realize that ASAP, and, if parts are so screwed up, try to fix them. In college it can pay (literally) to be seen as the underdog, downtrodden, disenfranchised, victim, impoverished, etc. but once you leave you'll be thrust into a slightly more genteel sector of the Animal Kingdom. A place where you want every advantage you can get - smart, healthy, wise, with mind/body/spirit wired together. What is 100% guaranteed? Death.</p>
<p>I can remember enough of my undergrad years to recall some situations where kids had parents who underreported income (self-employed mechanic who reports whatever he wants to the IRS, parents divorced with kid living w/Mom who makes very little money while Dad slips kid cash under-the-table as part of an agreement) and received a good amount of dinero as a result. And I'm sure it happens now and it isn't fair - but it is fun to watch someone who was convinced that he/she could game the system get hammered.</p>
<p>I also remember a number of kids who would not shut up about unfair things were. DUH! Most of them did not last past 1-2 years. Not trying to scare anyone here, just reporting what I saw. </p>
<p>Again, if things are that unfair, work hard in school so you can change them.</p>
<p>OP . . . you appear to be a hard working intelligent young woman who is not whining but has asked a thought provoking question. Your response to the posts are an indication of your maturity level. Accept the good, throw the bad out and Thank you!!</p>
<p>I'm in the same position. And yes, it really does suck. And it sucks even more when that person is high class and lies about their applications, and end up getting the scholarship you probably (in all honesty) needed more. It really is dissapointing to see when that happens, and it can generally be unfair.</p>
<p>For the most part, what people have said on here about not seeing the "entire" view of the rich folks is true- there could be a bad financial situation even if it may not seem so, and sometimes they really do just genuinely work hard, and harder than you sometimes.</p>
<p>But while that's true, I also think it becomes a bit one-sided. How exactly do they get to be more hard-working? Maybe it's because they have more opportunities and more resources because they are rich... while I'm all for hard work and money coming hand in hand, the problem is that generationally rich folks have the upper hand and while they may do more stuff than you, it often is biased and is because they HAVE the actual opportunities. They have the money to go travel to places, have tutors, have the means to go everywhere, etc.</p>
<p>But really, it's two sided so I don't want to bash on you, Skygirl. And I really don't like it when people say "you should have worked harder, then you would've gotten the scholarship"- I really find that to be rude. Apparently her stats are great. How much harder can you work, seriously? I have seen friends who work their butt off, more than others, but it doesn't translate onto paper, and they don't get the scholarships they would like. It's just bad luck, and it's a bit of a bad system. There's not much you can do about it.</p>