<p>I really really want to go to seattle university, but it looks like i'm going to have to pay 14,000 in private loans and 7500 in federal loans. so i'll be taking out about 20,000 dollars in loans. per year. while another college which is my second choice college is only making me take out 14,000 dollars in loans each year. is 13,000 just too much to even go to a dream school, or should i just cope with the other school because it's cheaper. I'm going into math and science so i hope to pay off my colle debt. by the way i have to pay all of my college! no help from parents whatsoever!</p>
<p>Do you not have any other options? Because if you’re not getting any parental support, even 14k a year in loans is a LOT.</p>
<p>Seattle University is an excellent school and you should definitely consider attending. $20k in loans per year is about average. Conventional wisdom for non-Ivy school is that the Stafford loan maximums are about what you should stick with for your debt upon graduation, and $20k is more than manageable. You might even be able to reduce that per year by taking out private loans in lieu of higher interest unsubsidized loans, working summer jobs and / or taking a job part time on or off campus during the year to reduce the number of loans you will have to take.</p>
<p>Bedouin, I’m not sure if you read the OP correctly. I’m not a financial aid expert but surely you aren’t suggesting that 20,000 dollars in loans per year is average. Providing the student graduates in 4 years he or she would come out of school owing $80,000.</p>
<p>$80k per year is on the high side, but I think that the OP actually meant $20k per year for four years, leading to a total of $80k. It’s not so bad when you think about it like that, at least not compared to the $320,000 that you were suggesting that he come out of college with. For one, he would not be guaranteed to even qualify for those loans after the first year, and he might end up having to finish the remainder of his college undergrad at a lesser-ranked school!</p>
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<p>Bedouin…CONVENTIONAL wisdom is that the TOTAL Stafford loan allowance for undergrad is acceptable and this is about $20K for FOUR years…not each year.</p>
<p>AND I would argue that this amount is the same for the Ivies and the like. Debt is debt regardless of where you get your undergrad degree. Even grads of the Ivy League should be responsible when it comes to debt accumulation. Sorry…I do not agree with you that a student should assume more debt…and anyway…the STUDENT would likely need a cosigner for any more significant debt so the parents or some other cosigner would also be responsible.</p>
<p>Bedouin, I never suggested the student would graduate owing $320,000. If you read my post correctly I said he or she would graduate owing $80,000. </p>
<p>That is still too much debt and it is not appropriate for an adult to suggest otherwise.</p>
<p>wow bedouin is obviously ■■■■■■■■ lol hilarious</p>
<p>Seattle University is an excellent school and you should definitely consider attending. $20k in loans per year is about average.</p>
<p>ha ha ha…</p>
<p>The average debt at GRADUATION (so, total for 4 years) for an undergrad at a private U is $25k…not $80k as you’re implying.</p>
<p>And…in case you’re wondering…for Seattle U…</p>
<p>Average indebtedness at graduation: $26,665 (not close to $80k)</p>
<p>Young people, please beware. Some people give very dangerous advice…take it with a grain of salt.</p>
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<p>Maybe Bedouin is NOT an adult.</p>
<p>You could be right Thumper. I assumed he was an adult due to a previous post where he stated he volunteered at his son’s alma mater to help kids filing for financial aid.</p>
<p>Mom2CollegeKids is correct that advice should be taken with a grain of salt.</p>
<p>"The average debt at GRADUATION (so, total for 4 years) for an undergrad at a private U is $25k…not $80k as you’re implying.</p>
<p>And…in case you’re wondering…for Seattle U…</p>
<p>Average indebtedness at graduation: $26,665 (not close to $80k)"</p>
<p>mom2collegekids - those numbers are bogus… Much like the FAFSA numbers are just about pulled out of thin air, so are the Average indebtedness numbers… </p>
<p>The Average indebtedness numbers are “Average Student Indebtedness” and don’t take into account the money that parents pay toward a students education (savings or loans). Parent Plus Loans are not even included in the Average indebtedness numbers - How dishonest is that reporting system… I hate to say it but 80K is a much more realistic number - the other “Average indebtedness” number often looks to me like just a totaling of the maximum Stanford loans available to an undergrad student after 4 years…</p>
<p>Rant over - I would advise the OP to attend the 2nd choice school, if nothing else can be worked out…</p>
<p>well what if I actually went into engineering or pre-med and followed through with it. would taking out those private loans in the long run be ok since i would have enough money to pay them off?</p>
<p>*The Average indebtedness numbers are “Average Student Indebtedness” and don’t take into account the money that parents pay toward a students education (savings or loans). Parent Plus Loans are not even included in the Average indebtedness numbers - How dishonest is that reporting system… I hate to say it but 80K is a much more realistic number *</p>
<p>1) The student is talking about his own debt - not his parents.</p>
<p>2) If you think that the avg family ends up with $80k in debt per child for college, you’re soooooo wrong. Most families couldn’t even qualify to borrow the $60k (non Stafford) for one child, much less more than one child.</p>
<p>*well what if I actually went into engineering or pre-med and followed through with it. would taking out those private loans in the long run be ok since i would have enough money to pay them off? *</p>
<p>First of all, if you’re considering med school, then you definitely can’t afford to borrow for undergrad. You’ll need to save your borrowing power for that. And, please don’t think that once you finish 4 years of med school that you’d be earning anything close to what it will take to pay off even big med school loans. </p>
<p>Engineers do not make THAT much money during the early years out of college (when you’d be paying off the debt. The loan payment would be about $1000 a month. That’s about 3 car payments. </p>
<p>Ask the young engineers that you know if they can afford to pay 3 additional car payments IN ADDITION to all their other expenses. I guarantee that they would laugh at the notion.</p>
<p>Just to give you an idea…</p>
<pre><code>Loan Balance: $80,000.00
Adjusted Loan Balance: $80,000.00
Loan Interest Rate: 8.80%
Loan Fees: 0.00%
Loan Term: 10 years
Minimum Payment: $50.00
Monthly Loan Payment: $1,004.77
Number of Payments: 120
Cumulative Payments: $120,571.89
Total Interest Paid: $40,571.89
</code></pre>
<p>Note: The monthly loan payment was calculated at 119 payments of $1,004.77 plus a final payment of $1,004.26.</p>
<p>It is estimated that you will need an annual salary of at least $120,572.40 to be able to afford to repay this loan.</p>
<p>Now…assume that you borrowed $80k for undergrad and $200k for med school…hmmm $280k in debt…</p>
<p>Loan Calculator</p>
<pre><code>Loan Balance: $280,000.00
Adjusted Loan Balance: $280,000.00
Loan Interest Rate: 8.80%
Loan Fees: 0.00%
Loan Term: 10 years
Minimum Payment: $50.00
</code></pre>
<p>**
Monthly Loan Payment: $3,516.69**
Number of Payments: 120</p>
<pre><code>Cumulative Payments: $422,001.99
Total Interest Paid: $142,001.99
</code></pre>
<p>Note: The monthly loan payment was calculated at 119 payments of $3,516.69 plus a final payment of $3,515.88.</p>
<p>It is estimated that you will need an annual salary of at least $422,002.80 to be able to afford to repay this loan.</p>
<p>Do you really think people with new MDs are making anywhere close to $422k per year? Do you think they can afford the equivalent of 10 extra car payments every month in addition to all of their other expenses???</p>
<p>Yes mom2collegekids </p>
<p>The student is talking about his own debt, but you quoted Average indebtedness at graduation: $26,665 at Seattle U. - and that figure assumes that the someone (normally parents) saved or assumed the remainder of the funds needed between coa and student dept and scholarship / grants / ws …</p>
<p>Not to pick on you mom2collegekids (I love lots of your great advice) but this Average indebtedness number is one of those things that comes closer to a bald face lie than the average true debt that is incurred after 4 years of college. </p>
<p>Here is an example from a recent CC kid, would you mind using the same numbers and let me know what you come up with.</p>
<p>Good but not top school $35,000 / housing $4,500 / Meal plan $4,500 / Fees and books $1,600 / Then you would need to add travel, pizza, libation, and other real life costs, but for our example - no charge = 45,600 for year 1</p>
<p>COA = 45,600 year 1 + 5% more next year = $47,880 year 2 + 5% more next year = $50,270 + 5% more Sr year = $52783 = $196,533 for 4 years not even including pizza</p>
<p>Hard working middle class family with a mortgage and 2 working parents. / Fafsa comes up with a EFC of 28,000</p>
<p>Great student who gets good grades and above average EC. - The Student gets a scholarship of $14,000 for his great GPA / SAT, $2,000 for playing the kazoo in marching band, $3,000 Grant for being a hell of a nice guy, </p>
<p>Stafford Loan Limits
Dependent Students Annual Loan Limits
First Year $5,500 ($3,500 subsidized/$2,000 unsubsidized)
Second Year $6,500 ($4,500 subsidized/$2,000 unsubsidized)
Third Year and Beyond $7,500 ($5,500 subsidized/$2,000 unsubsidized)</p>
<p>So as I see it we have:
$196,533 for 4 years not even including pizza
$40,000 Parents Savings
$27,000 Student Loan
$76,000 Scholarships / Grants</p>
<p>Family resources used…. $120,533
Unmet need - $53,560 Parent Plus Loans?
Student loans for 4 yrs 27,000
Parents Savings used; $40,000</p>
<p>I see this a lot….</p>
<p>I believe that M2CK was just using it in this case to counter Beduoin’s ridiculous $80K figure for student loans but I agree with ncmentor that the average indebtedness is of very limited usefulness. It’s really only a measure of the principal debt incurred through federal student loans by those in the previous year’s graduating class who also started as freshman at the reporting school. So, the average debt reported is always limited by the federal loan limits and that’s the statistic that gets reported when the reality could be much more shocking. </p>
<p>There are some useful stats on the CDS, although average student borrowing is not one of them. I think there is a place on the CDS where schools report the cumulative Parent Plus loan debt for the class.</p>
<p>*I believe that M2CK was just using it in this case to counter Beduoin’s ridiculous $80K figure for student loans *</p>
<p>Exactly.</p>
<p>It’s a myth for someone to claim that many/most students graduate with $80k in debt from undergrad education. If that were true, you’d see nearly all grads still living at home because they couldn’t afford rent and their loans.</p>
<p>It would be ridiculous for a student to take on $80k in loans for Seattle U. Insane. And, most do NOT do that.</p>
<p>But to get back to the OP – who is getting no support from parents and has to assume the entire burden of financing his college education: Borrowing $80 K for Seattle University (or any school) is totally unreasonable, regardless of what your intended major is. m2ck has run the numbers for you, so you can see how the loan repayments will crush you</p>
<p>PLEASE DO NOT DO IT.</p>
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<p>Is that even technically a myth? I’ve only ever met one person who actually believes it, so it falls into the “delusion” category, doesn’t it?</p>