<p>I guess you answered my question....</p>
<p>The notion that WUSTL must be overrated simply because East Coast high school kids have never heard of it is pretty hilarious. I'm pretty darn sure a lot of East Coast kids couldn't locate St. Louis on a blank map, even if it included all the major rivers. When I moved to New England from the midwest, I discovered that most of the natives--including the educated--were confused about where on the Mississippi St. Louis sat; some confused it with Minneapolis, some with New Orleans. </p>
<p>Within the world of academics, and in particular within the world of medical academics, WUSTL is well-known and well-regarded. That was true 20 years ago, and probably earlier than that. It is not a new kid on the block. (I couldn't say anything about its reputation in the business world, but its economics department is held in high esteem by those in academia.)</p>
<p>I haven't followed the feud between ellekay and hawkette, but I found in a different thread that ellekay sometimes misunderstands the data as it is provided by the universities. In particular, she was not aware that there is a difference between data about <em>accepted</em> students and <em>enrolled</em> students, and that JHU is a particular offender when it comes to obscuring that distinction in the data it provides on its own web pages. Perhaps that sort of confusion is what has led her to accuse hawkette of misrepresenting data. You must read the fine print very carefully when you are looking at individual college data. It is somewhat safer to rely on standard formats like CDS; unfortunately, some schools do not release the data in the standard format (JHU is only one.)</p>
<p>At least I do hear WSTUL it's good for medical school but is it better than Stanford?</p>
<p>Midmo. There is no confusion here. Never. Wrong stats are just wrong. I am just trying to help by posting links to the correct information. It is in very poor taste to be so rude. If you have a problem with a particular school you should speak with its representatives to get the information you need or to get a particular issue straightened out for you. You should not be attacking students on cc who go to schools that you don't like for whatever reason you may have.
By the way. I never said that Wash U is overrated. I actually hear that it is a great school. That perception is out there maybe because it rose so quickly in the national rankings and because it falls a lot below the top more well-known schools in the peer rating for what that is worth. Many people value that ranking more than the overall rank. Some people don't like that number at all. In my high school, it was considered to be a most important number. So it boils down to personal beliefs.
In the future maybe you can address me directly rather than talk about me. I would be happy to speak with you, but I don't want to engage in petty argument. Also I would appreciate it if you would not twist what I have stated in past posts. I never claimed numbers to be admitted or enrolled. You can look at all numbers, but just make sure that what you are looking at are correct and timely. That is the most important thing to understand. Thanks for listening.</p>
<p>ellekay....im starting to get a little annoyed as well...because you still have not given any hard facts backing up what you have said.</p>
<p>Hard facts, please??</p>
<p>Hi Lizziepoo. I am only speaking about the numbers provided for my school. I have posted the sites with the correct data at least 2 times. I suggest that since I see that the stats for my school are not accurate that posters who are interested go to the sites of whatever schools they are interested in and get the most updated data. It is not my goal to provide all numbers for all schools to make any sort of greater point. The best way to get the hard facts is to make sure that you are getting the ones that are most accurate and most timely. I do not offer myself as an authority, only as someone trying to be helpful.</p>
<p>hawkette, if you're so gung ho about backing up statements with facts, does that mean you have some actual data about these people "in the status quo?" Do you have some hard numbers on these "many" who defend the Ivies and denigrate schools like WashU? </p>
<p>You have before made references to these elite cabal of shadowy figures who conspire to keep the Ivies unthreatened by other excellent-but-underrated schools. So what's your source on this phenomenon? Minutes from secret cabal meetings? Survey research on "ivy defenders?" Clandestine meetings in underground parking garages with the Deep Throat of the Higher Ed world?</p>
<p>Some students do make up claims here and then have trouble making good on it when asked to produce evidence. I dislike that too. But you're not a student, so you should have no problem meeting your own standard. So either stop pretending that you have secret insights into the conspiracies, or start publishing a newsletter and let me subscribe to it. I've been trying to get in on these cabal meetings for YEARS and have yet to find out where my local chapter gathers.</p>
<p>ellekay, i don't know why you are talking about Hopkins when the thread is about WashU. Regardless of your reasoning, you are supposed to be talking about WashU on this thread, right?</p>
<p>Here's some info:</p>
<p>WashU rated 41 in graduate placement in the WSJ survey. Regardless of an "east coast bias" its numbers at places like Harvard Law and Wharton are very very low. On my Columbia B-school alumni list (not a WSJ school) its not in the top 25 for example.</p>
<p>WashU does badly with top recruiters. According to vault* it has 1/7 elite banks and 0/5 elite consulting firms. If you look at the placement list for WashU, its hardly more impressive than schools ranked in the 25-50 range on USNEWS. Lots of operational roles, few strategic roles (which tend to be the far more desirable track).</p>
<p>I think WUSTL is overratted in terms that it got its position on USNWR list by playing cheap tricks. First they get a lot of kids to apply by not having a supplement (just Common App - like a third-tier school), and by moving their application deadline to Jan 15. An artificial boost to the "selectivity" score. Then they waitlist everyone who is not likely to matriculate (and those who want to attend have to prove it in order to be accepted from waitlist). Another artificially boosted score.
Without these tricks they will have a considerably lower rank. But with this said, it is still a very strong school. Just not a top 10. Closer to 20-25.</p>
<p>"The notion that WUSTL must be overrated simply because East Coast high school kids have never heard of it is pretty hilarious. I'm pretty darn sure a lot of East Coast kids couldn't locate St. Louis on a blank map, even if it included all the major rivers. When I moved to New England from the midwest, I discovered that most of the natives--including the educated--were confused about where on the Mississippi St. Louis sat; some confused it with Minneapolis, some with New Orleans. </p>
<p>Within the world of academics, and in particular within the world of medical academics, WUSTL is well-known and well-regarded. That was true 20 years ago, and probably earlier than that. It is not a new kid on the block. "</p>
<p>I've lived in St. Louis. I couldn't agree with you more, Midmo. It was an outstanding and rigorous regional school 20 years ago; it's now an outstanding and rigorous national school. In the rankings, it's right around where it belongs, IMO. Just because people who claim to be "sophisticated" East Coasters don't know where St. Louis is doesn't change that. </p>
<p>Btw, WU must have come into quite a lot of money to make the aggressive marketing moves that it did. Does anyone know where that money came from?</p>
<p>"WashU does badly with top recruiters. According to vault* it has 1/7 elite banks and 0/5 elite consulting firms. If you look at the placement list for WashU, its hardly more impressive than schools ranked in the 25-50 range on USNEWS. Lots of operational roles, few strategic roles (which tend to be the far more desirable track)."</p>
<p>So do plenty of elite LAC's, because there's more to life than chasing i-banks and consulting firms (and I say this as someone in a consulting firm myself). Gah, when will people stop judging the worth of a college by whether its grads go into i-banking and consulting?</p>
<p>Frankly, the attractiveness of I-bank jobs is gone. Look at Bear Sterns, Citi Group, Morgan Stanley now. They are going to lay off large number of people before the end of the year. Where do you go if there is no business for mortgage backed securities?</p>
<p>"I also never heard of wash u until sophomore year of high school. I can say that none of my friends had heard of it either."</p>
<p>So what, though? You're from Connecticut. What a bunch of CT high-schoolers are aware of doesn't determine "good" schools.<br>
I live in the midwest; I bet most high schoolers around here haven't heard of, say, William & Mary or Haverford. Does that not make them good schools?</p>
<p>my argument exactly, pizzagirl :)
(although, I hadn't heard of WU until my Junior year...lol)</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, I don't claim to know the answer to your question about money, but I believe the years that Donald Danforth, heir to the Ralston Purina fortune, was president coincided with a rise in national prominence. Of course, that doesn't mean the family donated a lot of money; could just mean that having a businessman with national connections was good for the university.</p>
<p>(BTW, D. Danforth has put major money into plant research also; not just a pet food businessman.)</p>
<p>It's certainly worse than Stanford!</p>
<p>patless. I just saw your post. The reason I entered the conversation is because it came up under the Hopkins posts.</p>
<p>pizzagirl. you are reading too much into the comments that east coast kids generally have not heard of Wash U until it comes time to begin paying attention to the college search. No one said that this means that Wash U is not a good school, just not well known on the east coast as compared to the big name, more famous schools. Also, you are right. I am from Conn., so I think you made my point. Since Wash U is no longer a regional school, you would think it would be more well known all over the country, especially since it is such a great school.
Midmo. Believe me, we know where St. Louis is and where the various rivers flow.</p>
<p>"WashU simply does not attract elite recruiters. If you want to work at McKinsey or a hedge fund WashU is incredibly behind places it ranks close to such as Dartmouth and Columbia."</p>
<p>Newsflash: Some people go to colleges for reasons other than wanting to work in i-banking or consulting. There are actually other fields of study in universities beyond business / finance / economics. Go figure!</p>