<p>Honestly, Tahoe, I think this conversation is beneath you. There's just no arguing with someone like ColdWind. It's pretty sad to see someone of so many years lack so much maturity.</p>
<p>Thank you.</p>
<p>I agree with Tahoe. I think it's unproductive to use words like "white trash," especially when one is so well educated. It is also very unbecoming to engage young people that are of your kids' age. I wonder if you would really speak to your kids that way.</p>
<p>I often wonder why some kids turn out to be such bigots or bullies, but having encourntered some adult posters on this forum, I know why. People feel because this forum is anonymous, they could say things they wouldn't normally say at cocktail parties.</p>
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[quote]
In my opinion it's a form of social/class bigotry.
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</p>
<p>Thank you, Tahoe.</p>
<p>To the OP -- Rest assured that you daughter will be just as safe -- if not more safe -- than at many of the other locales mentioned.</p>
<p>Coldwind: I understand. Perhaps I was a little harsh in my description of Ithaca. I do apologize if I've offended anyone with the term "white trash," although I don't remember using it. If I did, I have to own up to it. </p>
<p>Let's just say I had this vision of Ithaca - not just Cornell - as a yuppie oasis because of the town's proximity to a world-class university. I was shocked to find a hard scrabble, blue collar town filled primarily with salt-of-the-earth white people (to put it diplomatically) few of whom would ever qualify to enroll at an elite institution like Cornell. You could say I experienced cognitive dissonance, because I made an assumption about Ithaca before my visit that turned out to be way off the mark. </p>
<p>Oh well. You live and learn, I guess.</p>
<p>@Plainsman - FYI
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1061160659-post1.html%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1061160659-post1.html</a></p>
<p>Plainsman:</p>
<p>You have made clear your own impressions of the town, and while others may disagree, it's your D that matters. What was her reaction/feelings about Ithaca? Is that someplace that she would like to call home for four years?</p>
<p>The reason I ask is that my two kids both did summer programs at Cornell. One hated Ithaca (his term was "dumpy" which I think is more realistic than "seedy" but that is just terminology), while my other kid thought Ithaca's grunge (my description) give the town "character" (her word). My first kid refused to apply and the other likes Cornell a lot.</p>
<p>If your D's feelings are similar to yours, then don't waste your money applying. If you prefer clean and bucolic in the NE, consider Bowdoin, Colgate, Dartmouth, Middlebury, Williams, Amherst, Bucknell and the like. But, of course those are LACs or LAC-like (Darmouth). (Not too many major research Unis in the boonies.)</p>
<p>bluebayou: I don't prefer the NE. We moved here from the midwest three years ago, just in time for my D to start high school. We prefer the midwest, but we're not moving again anytime soon and my D wants to stay close to home, so the NE is pretty much it. </p>
<p>My D didn't get to see Ithaca. She spent the two days and two nights entirely on the Cornell campus. As a result, she really likes the university. Being somewhat familar with her reaction to the more grungy East Coast, I think her reaction would/will be somewhere between the opinions of your two kids. She doesn't mind grunge, and does think it has a certain character or flavor, but it needs to contain some...I'm not sure how to say this...but here goes: the grunge needs to contain some upscale, yuppie, Manhattan sidewalk cafe type ambience, instead of roaming muggers, panhandlers and homeless people sleeping on the sidewalks. </p>
<p>A perfect example of what I'm talking about is the city of Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. That's where Lehigh University is located, a very selective, small (4,800 undergrads) private university. The immediate area off campus is somewhat seedy and dangerous. There are poor people in poor housing and students have been known to be held up at gunpoint if they wander too far off campus too late at night in south Bethlehem. But north Bethlehem is gentrified, yuppie heaven, with some of the finest restaurants, bars, pubs, and hangouts anywhere. There are annual festivals, including a humongous music festival on backstreets right downtown. Barack Obama visited north Bethlehem. It's safe, exciting, sidewalk cafe, music festival kind of place in that part of town. My D loves going there with her friends. The two parts of town are in sharp contrast with each other, even though its the same small to medium-sized city. </p>
<p>My "feeling" from visiting downtown Ithaca (admittedly only one time) was a place closer to south Bethlehem than north Bethlehem. </p>
<p>As far as "clean and bucolic" my D loved Swarthmore. It's set amidst upscale homes in a leafy and safe suburban area. The campus itself is a registered arboretum. It's very attractive. If you want excitement, there is a train depot literally at the foot of the main campus walk. You can take a ride 15 miles or so to downtown Philadelphia, if you want big city life excitement. </p>
<p>My D also really liked Oberlin College in Oberlin, Ohio. The town is part of the campus instead of the other way round. The town is tiny but the few restaurants in town are fabulous. And you can walk from anywhere on campus to any business in the town of Oberlin, because the college has sort of assimilated the town. Very safe. Very nice. Laid back. Liberal environment. And the world class Oberlin College Conservatory means 300 orchestra concerts a year in this tiny town. It's just terrific. If you want big city life excitement, Cleveland is about a 35 minute drive from campus. </p>
<p>Those two colleges/locations are my D's two favorite "environments."</p>
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But north Bethlehem is gentrified, yuppie heaven, with some of the finest restaurants, bars, pubs, and hangouts anywhere. There are annual festivals, including a humongous music festival on backstreets right downtown. Barack Obama visited north Bethlehem. It's safe, exciting, sidewalk cafe, music festival kind of place in that part of town.
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</p>
<p>Sounds a lot like the Ithaca I know.</p>
<p>Since when is the East Coast more "grungy"? We've got a lot more yuppies on our shores than your corn-ridden Midwestern fields overrun with "salt of the earth" blue collar workers. I didn't encounter any yuppies when I went to the Midwest, mostly just heavy people waddling about little towns oblivious to the rest of the world. </p>
<p>I can see how the bucolic environment would upset a lot of potential students - but as an NYU student in the heart of Manhattan, I've seen both the negative and postive aspects of city life. If I'm accepted to Cornell, I would trade it in for a life in Ithaca any day. I have the rest of my life to spend in the city, which is probably where I'll be working in the future.</p>
<p>By the way, there's a lot more panhandlers and muggers here in the yuppie Manhattan you so ignorantly spoke of than in the Ithaca I visited. There's more to our city than what you seen on Gossip Girl.</p>
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the grunge needs to contain some upscale, yuppie, Manhattan sidewalk cafe type ambience, instead of roaming muggers, panhandlers and homeless people sleeping on the sidewalks.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Wow. This is a really classist conversation. Maybe it would be behouve your daughter to step outside the comfort zone that has surrounded her upbringing. </p>
<p>I never once saw a roaming mugger in Ithaca. "Panhandlers" and "homeless people" kind of go hand in hand, and there are very few. Certainly fewer per capita than Manhattan.</p>
<p>Ithaca's a really solid, nice city. It's one of the most progressive and enlightened towns in the country with a lot of really fascinating people. There's no need to drag it through the mud like this simply because it doesn't look like you're home.</p>
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Since when is the East Coast more "grungy"? We've got a lot more yuppies on our shores than your corn-ridden Midwestern fields overrun with "salt of the earth" blue collar workers.
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</p>
<p>Having lived in both and moved beyond the absurd stereotypes of both places (I think a lot of East Coast people would be horrified to realize how similar their lifestyles are to the Midwest), the East Coast's built infrastructure is a lot grungier when comparing socioeconomic apples to apples. </p>
<p>It's mostly just an issue of relative age of the cities. Most upper middle class Midwesterners live in newer McMansion suburbs with spreadout malls or very quaint, safe towns. The "industrial" parts are separate and the "corn fields" (that, by the way, feed you everyday) are pretty sparse, at least in the Great Lakes region.</p>
<p>The East Coast is just a lot more compacted and rough looking because of its age and history. Multi million dollar homes could be hidden behind graffiti-lined walls. That doesn't happen in the Midwest. </p>
<p>I, personally, prefer that, but it is grungier.</p>
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Barack Obama visited north Bethlehem.
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</p>
<p>And this makes Bethlehem a better place than Ithaca because....? We have had more than our fair share of famous people and politicians come to Ithaca. The Dalai Lama was here...Mike Huckabee...John Ashcroft...Stephen Colbert...John Stewart..I could go on.</p>
<p>
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the grunge needs to contain some upscale, yuppie, Manhattan sidewalk cafe type ambience
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Did you even walk around the Commons and observe the ambiance or were you too obsessed in making sure you weren't mugged by the scary homeless people? There are plenty of eating establishments that offer the "Manhattan sidewalk cafe" ambiance you speak of...Simeon's, Viva Tacqueria... just to name a few. And in case you didn't notice....Ithaca also has its fair share of those "upscale yuppies" in addition to the "salt of the Earth" individuals. </p>
<p>I honestly don't understand why you need to keep insulting Ithaca the way you are. You've made your point and the repetition of your insults toward the city are unnecessary. This forum is full of loyal alums like Tahoe, CayugaRed and myself and we'll just keep countering your comments...maybe it's time for you to take your leave.</p>
<p>Hmm then maybe it's just the part of the midwest I visited (Iowa, small town) that was so seedy. And I wasn't insulting the corn fields, I do appreciate them. Just don't like being told by some elitist Midwesterner that my home is grungy. Especially because he compared it to yuppie Manhattan - I go to NYU, I see the muggers and panhandlers everyday, this city is not the upscale yuppie place you see on Sex and the City and Gossip girl. But I'm not an upstater, so I'm not really that familiar with upstate NY anyway.</p>
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elitist Midwesterner
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</p>
<p>Now that is an oxymoron.</p>
<p>Lehigh also hosted a McCain-Palin rally on October 8th. McCain</a> rally at Lehigh hot ticket - lehighvalleylive.com
:D</p>
<p>Haha Cayuga you would think, right? Why would someone who comes from the midwest actually be an elitist...elitists usually have something to be proud of. And yet,
[quote]
Being somewhat familar with her reaction to the more grungy East Coast, I think her reaction would/will be somewhere between the opinions of your two kids. She doesn't mind grunge, and does think it has a certain character or flavor, but it needs to contain some...I'm not sure how to say this...but here goes: the grunge needs to contain some upscale, yuppie, Manhattan sidewalk cafe type ambience, instead of roaming muggers, panhandlers and homeless people sleeping on the sidewalks.
[/quote]
Yeah whatever "Manhattan sidewalk cafe type ambience" he picked up on his weekend getaway to the "the Big Apple" it's not true. Send your kid to some small LAC that looks like it belongs on Wisteria Lane. Wow I'm making a lot of tv analogies...</p>
<p>Stargazer - While I agree with your larger point, I'm going to ask you to please avoid the insulting bigotry of statements like:</p>
<p>
[quote]
Why would someone who comes from the midwest actually be an elitist...elitists usually have something to be proud of.
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</p>
<p>If one small town in Iowa is your impression of the Midwest, then I could make a whole lot of harsh accusations against almost dead dusty towns in Texas if I'd never been to Houston, Dallas, or Austin. It's important for all of us to not turn "others" into monstrous caricatures, no matter how much we disagree.</p>
<p>To illustrate my point, in my personal Midwestern experience, I went to one of the most expensive private high schools in the country where we wore coats and ties everyday. Kids from that school created new math theorums the world had never known, performed cutting edge research or went onto professional sports. I grew up down the street from a school ranked the best in the nation, was surrounded by wealthy doctor / lawyer / professional immigrants from India and Asia, drove past massive mansions on my way to school everyday, and snuck my old beat up pick up truck in between BMWs, Escalades, and Mercedes. </p>
<p>We had the same upscale shopping that's on the East Coast, and had access to some of the most renown architecture and art in the world. </p>
<p>So, your naive impression of the "Midwest" and assuming no one has anything to be proud of is incredibly insulting and demeaning, rooted in ignorance rather than an studied understanding. </p>
<p>Thank you for understanding.</p>
<p>Okay - back to the main topic.</p>
<p>I apologize if I've offended you. But I never said most midwesterners are poor and don't see BMW's, Escalades, and Mercedes or go to private schools, so you don't have to detail your childhood to me. I was merely describing my impression of one particular small town in the midwest, I didn't say the whole place was like that. My elitist joke was a response to Cayuga's joke about "midwestern elitist" being an oxymoron. </p>
<p>Sorry if it came off as really offensive. I do get ticked off when people make ridiculous generalizations about my own home of NY and then use those to justify more absurd generalizations about places like Ithaca. What that poster said was basically a polite way of saying "hey, cornell's nice, but uh, I saw lotsa white trash walkin around...my daughter won't mind since she's used to the grungy east coast, but I'm from the midwest, and I prefer more yuppies."</p>
<p>I understand. That's why I agree with your larger point. Just know that the Midwest is a very large and diverse place.</p>
<p>It's scary how many people think Manhattan is "Sex and the City".</p>