<p>My D's sport is rowing. She won't get into an Ivy without help however it looks like she will have it. Our dilemma / worry is how will she do academically at an Ivy when it is a reach vs going to D1 schools that will not be a reach for her?</p>
<p>And is being an Ivy really worth that much over other D1 schools?</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
<p>We are in a very similar situation. The difference for us is about $4000 - $5000. Does it worth it to spend more to go to an Ivy vs an also highly ranked D1 school? I don’t know. What I know is I am willing to spend more if D choose to go Ivy. So far she had visited 2 top ranked D1 schools and she can see herself happy in both of them! In a few days, she’s going to visit Ivy schools, and I think she will probably like at least some of them if not all. How are we going to make final decision? I don’t know. D has to make that decision. I keep telling myself that she can’t make a bad decision since all 5 schools she’s going to OV are both academically and athletically sound.</p>
<p>“Worth it” how? Are you going to be accumulating major debt to go Ivy? Will she be able to be academically successful as an Ivy student/athlete? Does she have a feel for what she wants to do when she graduates? Will her desired career path require grad school and will there be money left for that if she goes Ivy? If she wants to be a Wall St banker, perhaps it is “worth it” financially. If she wants to be an elementary school teacher, it will not impact her earnings potential and how much debt will she accumulate? Does she want to be an engineer? Cornell is great, and as are Princeton and Columbia, but schools like Georgia Tech, Stanford, Cal, UT Austin, and others are as good and better than many Ivys. </p>
<p>And if you have doubts that she can be academically successful at the Ivy (especially with the extra time required to play a varsity sport), I think you are taking a huge risk. Graduating as a successful student/varsity athlete at a good academic institution will go a long, long way when it comes to finding a job, Ivy or not. </p>
<p>Ivys are fabulous, but so are lots of other schools - don’t pass up an opportunity that might be a much better fit for your child or your family.</p>
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<p>I think this is a very good question … and more answerable than the “is it worth it” question.</p>
<p>If we make the assumption that the amount of workload and level of class/assignments difficulty is greater at the Ivy than at the “non-reach” school, I know where I stand: the school should match the student’s abilities as best as possible. Why set oneself up for failure? I know others disagree with me. “College is supposed to be difficult,” I’ve been told. I say: “Difficult? Yes. Tortuous? No.”</p>
<p>Good points. I think I should have been clearer with my first question and GolfFather led me in the right direction.</p>
<p>Perhaps it is better stated as “What percentage of students that get into their reach schools do well” I know that is hard to answer but it would be interesting to get a feedback if possible. </p>
<p>As for the second question Goplay and Squidge I should have been clearer. Similar to go play, if the Ivy is 5k-10k more a year is it worth it? I agree the fit of the school is the most important thing.</p>
<p>D1: Academic advantage (tutoring, study hall, preferential class placement, dorm placement)
Ivy: Balance advantage (integration with other students, broader social experience)</p>
<p>Other thoughts?</p>
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</p>
<p>Ah, that is a good question.</p>
<p>I’ve seen studies sort of the reverse (students who attend a “lesser” school still do well … in other words it’s the person themsleves that makes someone succeed in life, not the school they go to).</p>
<p>But I haven’t seen anything about what you ask.
Would be interesting to know.
There is something to be said for being “challenged.”
But, as I said earlier, I don’t seeing the point of going into the deep end if one is not a good swimmer.</p>
<p>I am interested in anyone’s thoughts and experiences with this conundrum. The way things are shaping up, we may find DD choosing between large D1 schools and an Ivy - which would be an unlikely admittance without support from a coach. How much academic support is available at the Ivy’s? I assume that it varies from school to school. Has anyone found that their student athlete has received strong academic support from their Ivy? What about other highly competitive schools like Georgetown, Bucknell, Duke, Notre Dame & Williams?</p>
<p>anothersomeone,</p>
<p>I have only looked at a few Ivys in regards to academic support. Some of them seem to offer quite a lot ie this is just from googling penn <a href=“http://www.pennathletics.com/pdf8/779381.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=1700[/url]”>http://www.pennathletics.com/pdf8/779381.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=1700</a></p>
<p>A few highlights include grade tracking, supplemental studying and tutoring</p>
<p>During the academic year, classrooms are reserved for individual or group tutoring sessions.<strong>Workshops
are conducted throughout the academic year on strategies for succeeding at Penn.</strong>CAAP sessions are
held Monday through Thursday evenings.**More information about CAAP can be obtained by contacting
your coach or the Academic Services Office (215/898‐9479)."</p>
<p>If you are saying it is a reach school from an academic standpoint, I would suggest not doing it. I know a few athletes who went to a reach school and they floundered, could not handle the academic rigors and ended up either ineligible, or needing to transfer to another school. The fact you are inquiring makes me think you do not feel your student athlete is equipped to handle the academic part. My son goes to a regular D1 school but it a difficult academic program, he breezed thru high school with a 4.3 gpa and barely tried, he is handling college, but it is not easy by any means. His teammate (for him this was a reach school academically) has already been ineligible for 1 quarter. Student athlete life is challenging.</p>
<p>Momof2010, Do you know just as many athletes that went to reach schools who have done well/reasonably well? Were those who failed to succeed kids who were on the fence academically, or kids who were clearly out of their league (and everyone pretty much knew it)?</p>
<p>I think that this question of whether to urge your student/athlete to “reach” is a very interesting one and I bet many parents share the same concern. I would love to hear from others about their experiences and/or observations.</p>
<p>carpediem, I do not know of any who were in a “reach” situation and have done well, not to say there are none out there, I am sure plenty. I just know that being a student athlete is a HUGE commitment and college is demanding alone so you add in the athletic factor and it just makes it that much more difficult. However the benefit of being an athlete is often times there are more recourses available to student athletes who need help than to the regular student body.</p>
<p>D has teammates who are really struggling academically at her HYPS school. In the one case she knows some detail about, the talented athlete came in with a relatively low SAT score (1800–1900) and had only taken 3 AP’s senior year at a good public school. In contrast, most non-athlete admittees earned 2250-2400 and took mostly all AP’s or their school’s equivalent in junior and senior year. In another case D knows about, the student had been a straight A kid at a large Catholic school and she feels pretty overwhelmed by the quantity of work at college. Many kids on D’s team hail from expensive, seemingly high quality prep schools (Andover, Harvard-Westlake) and they seem better prepared than kids like my D who came from an ordinary public school. D finds the academics to be manageable from an intellectual standpoint (except for the math), but having enough time for study is more the issue for her.</p>
<p>Thanks, GFG. Wonder if this is also true for student-athletes at reach schools that aren’t quite Ivy League caliber.</p>
<p>In my opinion, if her academics are sufficient to get through admissions at an Ivy, she has the ability to do well academically.</p>
<p>It boils down to self-discipline and time-management. It’s not that the concepts are that much more difficult to fathom, rather the volume of work (combined with 3-4 hours of practice per day) makes it hard to find time to squeeze it all in.</p>
<p>Time management is going to be a big factor regardless of the school she chooses to attend. In some respects I would say that an incoming student at a top school is sufficiently intimidated be more conscientious than they would at a non-reach school.</p>
<p>Ivies have extremely high graduation rates. The last figures I found for Harvard and Yale were both 97 percent within 6 years. Other Ivies have only slightly lower percentages. In other words, they don’t admit kids who can’t do the work.</p>
<p>I agree that generally they don’t admit students who can’t do the work, but my D’s Ivy team had several students become academically ineligible for their sport in during the time in school. I believe all eventually graduated, but if you are a relatively marginal admit academically, and trying to play your sport, you better be careful about your choice of majors.<br>
I also, think there is a bit of a myth regarding a lesser time commitment for Ivy sports versus other D1 programs. I think this used to be the case, but outside of the season there are “captains’ practices” that are “optional”, but not really optional if you want to play! So anyone considering a sport at an Ivy needs to know there are heavy duty academic and athletic demands.</p>
<p>Anxious,
What kind of academic support do Ivy athletes receive? Study hall? tutors? centers? The major D1 programs really work to make sure the athletes can get what they need . Do the ivies offer any of this (in your experience)</p>
<p>D took OVs at 3 Ivies and 1 non-Ivy D1. The non-Ivy had mandatory study times for athletes, a dedicated team academic adviser, etc. At each of the Ivies, the athletes were treated like regular students. Help was available if they need it, just as it is for every other student, but there wasn’t any hand-holding to make sure they get their work done.</p>
<p>As for Ivy time commitment, Anxiousmom is right. Most programs will take it right up to the 20 hour per week practice limit imposed by the NCAA. On top of that is training room time, travel, etc. The Ivy coaches want to win just as badly as their non-Ivy D1 counterparts.</p>
<p>If the Ivy gave you a preread and said that you are good to go then its a good chance that you will do well academically at that school, even though it won’t be easy. Like Sue 22 said ivies don’t admit people they think won’t graduate.</p>