<p>Wanted to start a thread to share info with families that have been through or are the process of Ivy League basketball recruiting. I have a son that's a sophomore at a New England prep school and is just beginning to receive invitations to summer camps, etc. Limited playing time this year, but more to come. ESPN ranking of 79.</p>
<p>We have a particular interest in understanding timelines for test taking and the application the process as a prelude to the "dance" with coaches in the Spring of the junior year and the Summer before the senior. Would like to better understand the process and timelines of providing the schools with the information they need to give the application and FA application pre-reads prior to potentially generating a likely letter in early October of the senior year. Also, tips regarding managing the interaction with coaches would be appreciated.</p>
<p>Any comments of advice from folks that have been through this would be appreciated.</p>
<p>If you are at a New England Prep (particularly one of the top basketball schools), your coaches should really be able to help you with all of this. I know at my son’s school, it is the coaches who are very on top of this and most of the players go Ivy every year. I think they will have 5 kids at Harvard next year.</p>
<p>The coach is key. Just trying to get an understanding of how other families have dealt with this process. Just trying to avoid bumps in the road and see what’s worked for other folks that have been down this road.</p>
<p>I can’t comment on the athletic part of ivy hoops, but our impression is the higher your AI (academic index), the more athletic leeway you’ll have. The earlier you and the schools know that you have a solid AI, the more interested they will be.</p>
<p>My understanding is that this kind of opportunity is there at the Ivy’s for players that they wanted. 3.2 GPA (in schools without class ranking) = 65 AI points. 1700 SAT (assuming equal weight section) divided by 3 and multiplied by 2 = 113 AI points. This may be higher since some kids don’t perform as well on the writing section. That would equal a 178 AI.</p>
<p>The Ivy minimum is 171. All non-football athletes as a group have to average 1 standard deviation below the AI of the school’s freshman class as a whole. HYP’s freshman class AI averages are estimated to be in the 220 range. That would put their average AI less 1 standard deviation in the 200 - 210 range. This would indicate that a whole lot of fencing/swimming/squash/other athletes are “boosting” the averages of the basketball players.</p>
<p>I’m not certain if my math is exactly right here. A former Ivy bball coach shared with me that in the new regime at Harvard, while 171 in the Ivy minimum, he indicated that you had to be in the mid 190s to feel confident that there would be no issue with admissions. That would be 65 points for the 3.2 unweighted GPA plus 130 points for a 1300 verbal + math SAT score = 195 AI. This is still somewhat lower than Harvard’s standards a few years ago, but it puts them more in line with the Ivy’s as a whole.</p>
<p>For kids contemplating prep school, this also points out the benefit of attending a school that does not rank its students. The same 65 points that an unweighted GPA of 3.2 would take a class rank of 30 - 34 in a class of 500 (top 6% of your class). Again, low for Ivy admittees, but the ballers would not typically be in the top 6% of their class with at 3.2 unweighted GPA.</p>
<p>I’ve heard as well that certain boarding schools with recognized academic standards get a GPA bump. I don’t whether this is formalized in their process or whether it drives a more subjective evaluation on the part of the admissions office when a coach brings in an athlete from one of these schools with a low AI. I think another part of the boost is not just the academics of these schools, but also that the athlete has transitioned from home to life at school with a demanding schedule of classes and athletic commitments that resembles the demands of the life of an Ivy League athlete. This background gives the Ivy admission office more confidence that the athlete can be successful at their school.</p>
<p>And, again, what drives all of this is the coach’s perception that the athlete can contribute. In basketball, a prospect’s ESPN ranking is widely shared and compared as a measure of how he stands up compared to other recruits and even current Ivy athletes. Most Ivy basketball players have ESPN rankings from the low 70s to the very low 80s. Harvard, which has had a lot of success in recruiting since Amaker arrived, has recruits averaging in the mid to high 80s. By way of comparison, the better Patriot League schools, that also use the Academic Index, average in the mid 70’s, similar to the Ivy League schools. UMASS recruits average very low 90s. Syracuse averages mid to high 90s. Both of these schools with admit whom they choose. There are only a handful of schools (Duke, Stanford) that can command Ivy like academic standards and still get low to mid 90s ESPN rankings. They give full scholarships, unlike the Ivys, and offer Ivy level educations. They also have no AI floor and will occasionally admit superior athletes with questionable academic credentials.</p>
<p>I am trying to help a friend of mine, so I have a couple of questions… She is an international student, graduated 2009, she has been on the National Basketball team in our country, she went to Finland, I think, on an European Tournament, or whatever, she is currently on a prep camp for the Women’s National Team, she probably will get on it, so we have been wondering, does anybody have the idea how is the whole process international applying to Ivy’s as an athlete. I know Ivy’s are an extreme reach for everybody, but we were just wondering, if it is even worth trying, because English is her low side, probably with some prep courses, hard studying she might get a score of 1700 on the SATs but I dont think she can do much better, having in mind that if she applies for the Class of 2015, she doesnt have much time</p>
<p>Internationals are a whole different deal. My son has three internationals on his team, a PG, a junior and a senior and a sophomore. The reason they can over to prep is to build their basketball skills and improve the skill areas that your friend is concerned about.</p>
<p>She might want to consider a PG year at a prep school so she can improve her skills both in and out of the classroom, get a coach as an advocate that has relationships at the Ivies, and get plugged into the recruiting process.</p>
<p>I totally get the idea about the skill and everything, after all even if she gets accepted, she needs to be prepared with the coursework at Ivy’s, and at this point she is not. But since she does not live in USA, how does this post-graduate program work? There is no such thing here - Bulgaria, and I dont think she can enroll at a boarding school at the states, since she does not have citizenship or a green card, or whatever. </p>
<p>We were just wondering, it is not some sort of a dream or anything, we are totally aware of the tough application process, etc. It is not like she wont be happy to attend a less ranked school with a good basketball team.</p>
<p>Ralica has been voted MVP several times, as I said, she was on the NATIONAL Team for Girls, and currently, right at this moment, she is at a recruiting camp for the Women’s National Team. I will ask her to make a video, so that we can send to colleges. </p>
<p>A must read for Ivy recruiting is: “Playing the Game: Inside Athletic Recruiting in the Ivy League” by Chris Lincoln (I think Amazon has it). It really cleared things up for us. </p>
<p>The “official” line you will get from Ivy coaches is that they won’t talk to you until they’ve seen your Jr. year transcripts but know of several Juniors that already have verbal commitments. Really, as a sophmore, there’s not much you can do right now except sign up for every camp the coach offers (you can actually talk to the coach at camps without worrying about the NCAA recruiting rules) and keep in contact with coaches via emails. Send your schedule, especially if you’re going to be near their school. </p>
<p>Get cracking on SAT prep and make sure the grades stay up. Like I tell my daughter, try to get in on your own merits but hopefully the sport will give you a little “push”. LOL</p>
<p>We’re in the middle of things right now so I’m certainly no expert but I’m fascinated by the whole process!</p>
<p>bballdad: I liked reading your breakdown of the AI stats - seems like you understand it well!</p>
<p>I have no experience in basketball recruiting, but we are in the midst of it with a different sport. My daughter is a current junior. In regards to your opening question, I would recommend starting SAT/ACT testing early. That really is the best advice I can give you.</p>
<p>One ivy asked my daughter to take the SAT in the autumn of her junior year (they were familiar with her from a camp she had attended) so that they could see if she was even going to be recruitable for them. Fortunately, she did well on her initial SAT, with a solid base score. She was then able to share that score with other coaches who she was communicating with, and the response from all was very positive. Then, as asked by several coaches, she forwarded on her transcript at the end of first semester junior year. This was very helpful in a myriad of ways. One elite, athletic (non-ivy) powerhouse school had admissions go ahead and do a pre-read, and offer suggestions for courses. Honestly, the best thing we did was have an initial test score to show that she was going to be able to have a shot at admissions everywhere she was talking to. I think she has gotten a lot more attention as a result of that as coaches are not in the dark about her academic capability. </p>
<p>It is helpful because, if one does not appear to qualify early on test/grade wise, no one’s time is being wasted - the student’s nor the coaches - and the student is not having false hopes/unrealistic dreams. I don’t know if prep school grades are given a “bump” in terms of GPA. My daughter is a prep school student, so I do wonder about that - certainly would be nice!</p>
<p>Another thing she did that I think helped, was to start the process relatively early. She started to contact coaches at schools she was interested in around October/November of her junior year (for a spring sport). The coaches began to get to know her a bit before the huge onslaught of recruiting letters from other students began.</p>
<p>Obviously the athletic ability needs to be highly desirable too, but for ivies, as we all know, that is just one part of the puzzle. The grades and test scores need to be good enough for admissions, and the coach has to be confident that they can get you through the process - a lot less leeway than most other schools. </p>
<p>Good luck with it all - it is a roller coaster ride, which hopefully ends well!</p>
<p>Had a friend ask if qualified junior college athletes are recruitable to Ivy basketball teams. Do you have any knowledge of Ivy teams that are currently considering juco players. Cornell has a new junior this year, Andrew Ferry, that has come to them from Palm Beach Community College (and previously from Valpo). What are the requirements and hurdles? Please comment.</p>