<p>But then what should those match schools be? RPI, or Union college?
You are then sort of having the same discussion, just down a peg.</p>
<p>I think broad offerings in the sub-areas are valuable for someone starting from scratch who has not firmly decided or might change their mind, but you are right this may not be everyone.</p>
<p>Chardo “and which “good” engineering schools have coop programs and good recruiting?” - Georgia Tech is one</p>
<p>monydad,</p>
<p>I was just addressing to ones that are obssessed with the Ivies and must somehow include at least a couple on their lists. Once you get down to the match schools, Ivies are out of the picture and there are enough low-reach/match schools out there that are strong in many areas (better than RPI and Union either way).</p>
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<p>Yes, exactly; that’s a point I’ve been trying to make for a long time on CC. But it’s obvious the engineering deans and senior engineering faculty who are filling out the US News reputational survey are doing more than counting NAE memberships; if that’s all they were looking at, Harvard’s US News ranking would be higher in engineering. So I’m thinking they must be looking at Harvard and saying, “Hmmm, impressive roster of NAE members, but they don’t have anyone in aerospace engineering, or chemical engineering, or a bunch of other engineering disciplines that are really central to the field. So I can’t rate them as high as, say, a Purdue or a Wisconsin or a Northwestern, because it’s just not a complete engineering school.” </p>
<p>Does that matter to a prospective student? Well, as someone said earlier, it depends on what they want to study and how they want to use it. If they want to be an aerospace engineer or a chemical engineer, Harvard’s probably not their best bet, and there’s a reason it’s not more highly ranked in engineering despite having some really impressive engineering faculty.</p>
<p>I see nothing wrong with studying engineering as a preparation for preprofessional studies or another career. I cannot name a single friend of mine from college who is still in the field – each has moved on to another position, to Wall Street, or Silicon Valley.</p>
<p>if you really want to practice as an engineer after college, I’d say Cornell and Princeton are superb engineering schools where you can acquire excellent training in the field. But, as most respectable CC members would argue, most engineering grads from Ivies don’t work as engineers but as investment bankers. So, if all you after is an engineering diploma just so you can be highly employable, any Ivy school would provide that to you quite excellently, most especially Harvard and UPenn.</p>
<p>Now, if you’re serious about getting an engineering degree and you want to practice the profession, I’d strongly consider MIT, Stanford, Berkeley, Caltech, Mudd, Rice, Michigan, Northwestern, JHU, CMU, Georgia Tech, and a few back ups, such as UIUC, Texas-Austin, UCLA and Penn State.</p>
<p>My daughter is a practicing engineer - after having earned her degree in Physics from Harvard. The large electronic instrument company that hired her seemed thrilled to get her.</p>
<p>What do you all suggest for a student who is interested in engineering but not sure, would like to explore it at college while also exploring some arts subjects (writing, film studies, animation)? He also wants a smaller school (he comes from a small town and a small high school). Should we even look at these larger engineering programs? And if he goes with a smaller program, like Dartmouth (there he could double major in film and engineering, but could only get an AB in engineering after 4 years- would need a fifth year to get a BE), would his degree not be well regarded in the industry? And here he was thinking early decision at Dartmouth - you can see from my earlier posts we are rethinking this due to financial aid concerns, now I feel like we have to rethink the whole engineering approach. Would a student who has other interests be made to feel uncomfortable at a big time engineering school?</p>
<p>Virtually every engineering program includes space for free electives in non-engineering subjects. Some more than others, and in a four year ABET accredited program there may be more limited room to maneuver. You’d have to check particulars to see if a school has enough for him. At a university offering studies in many areas, one can find people in all of them, and often engineers who want these schools choose them specifically for this reason.</p>
<p>IMO: Every employer wants an obviously smart kid, I imagine plenty of employers would want him if he is well qualified for the positions they have available. I don’t know (one way or the other) that they are heading out in droves to look for them there though, given the small numbers, or that junior will have seen everything along the way to have optimally informed his choice of direction within the profession. That certainly doesn’t mean he won’t get a job, or won’t find someone who he is great for. You’d have to explore all that with Dartmouth I think. </p>
<p>When I was an engineer my firm hired by division: electrical, civil, etc, from ABET programs in these various disciplines. And they only recruited out of region at certain big, well-known engineering programs. But that’s the limit of my insight. Would they have hired a non-ABET "general engineering’ grad from a non-target school, if he shipped them a resume? I’m sure they would think he’s smart, but does he fit? Is he well trained, in a particular discipline? More importantly they got what they wanted through the normal process and would have been too cheap to fly someone in for an initial interview. So I doubt it, at that firm. But that doesn’t speak for the industry as a whole, I’ve no idea about that.</p>
<p>How would you all rate U. of Rochester for engineering? They have a 5 year program that you can apply to as a freshman. We are taking a look at them because my son has already been awarded the Bausch and Lomb scholarship as a junior that can be applied to U. of Rochester and the hope is, if he was accepted and chose them, that they would offer him further merit money along with need based FA. Would their engineering be superior to Dartmouth or Yale? How about Princeton and Cornell?</p>
<p>My kid might be applying to U of R too, not in engineering though. The merit aid angle is pretty big, particularly for National Merit it is a sweet deal.</p>
<p>Rochester was traditionally home to the optics and photo industries, and I believe their program has excellences in niche areas relating to these industries. I could see where it might have some good biomedial stuff there too, with the hospital right there, but I don’t know that. We know several U of R grads who went on to excellent graduate & professionals schools and have done well for themselves, I think it’s an underrated school. It likely will not be that close to these others for the most lucrative opportunities outside of engineering though.</p>
<p>That’s all I can add.</p>
<p>I think earlier in the thread various engineering rankings have been published.</p>
<p>I’ll be at a Dartmouth info session tonight. I will try to ask about recruitment of engineering grads.</p>
<p>U Rochester engineering is probably underrated. They have some bright young faculty. I was accepted in the PhD program there (Electrical) and was very impressed with some of the young faculty credentials. (I would have worked under a Caltech PhD had I not chosen Maryland instead.)</p>
<p>Jericho High School and Cold Spring Harbor School sends many students to ivy schools.</p>
<p>^yes, over 10% of last year’s class started Ivies this fall.</p>
<p>If your sole objective is to get a good education in engineering, get into a good grad program, and then get a good job, being a top student (top 10% in terms of GPA) at most undergraduate engineering school (including ones in most state flagships) would help you accomplish that. You spend so much money on an Ivy League education (whether it’s at Princeton, or Cornell, or Dartmouth, or Yale, or Brown) if that’s your only objective. The reason that you want to go to an Ivy for engineering is for the unique experience that you can’t get at almost all other schools (such as going to formals in limos, doing research your first year, etc.)</p>
<p>“The reason that you want to go to an Ivy for engineering is for the unique experience that you can’t get at almost all other schools (such as going to formals in limos, doing research your first year, etc.)” </p>
<p>I can’t believe what I just read. Going to formals in limos? That’s why anyone should attend an Ivy? Btw, doing research in your first year is not uncommon at dozens of schools. Certainly not anything unique to the Ivy League.</p>
<p>Have to agree with rjkofnovi. NEITHER of the experiences cited (going to formals in limos, doing research your first year) are – in any way – “unique” to the Ivy League.</p>
<p>Heck, my son did both in his senior year of high school!</p>
<p>When I applied, I was looking for the most capable fellow students, reputable faculty, personal attention, sophisticated campus culture, great “vibe”, beautiful campus, undergrad focus, great reputation, top engineering program, etc. Cornell and Princeton fit my requirements best.</p>
<p>For what its worth, the average engineering SAT scores at a few schools:</p>
<p>Cornell 1460 (an earlier post suggested 1480)
Northwestern 1450
Berkeley 1430
Michigan 1400</p>
<p>I couldn’t find the data for Princeton</p>
<p>from a variety of sources, possibly different years</p>
<p>Columbia engineering’s average SAT out of 1600 ~= 1480</p>
<p>Columbia engineering has higher SAT score than MIT:</p>
<p>Columbia SEAS:</p>
<p>CR: 660-760
Math: 740-800
Writing: 660-760</p>
<p>MIT:</p>
<p>CR: 650-760
Math: 720-800
Writing: 660-760</p>
<p>[Columbia</a> University - 2009](<a href=“http://profiles.asee.org/profiles/4625/screen/19?school_name=Columbia+University]Columbia”>http://profiles.asee.org/profiles/4625/screen/19?school_name=Columbia+University)
[College</a> Search - Massachusetts Institute of Technology - MIT - At a Glance](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)</p>
<p>this year Columbia had 97% of students in the top 10% of their high school class, MIT had 95%. </p>
<p>So Ivy league engineering schools (at least Columbia) is taking in some pretty bright kids, 2/3 of the students just happen to self-select into professions outside of engineering like finance, consulting, law, medicine, research</p>